The Dream's Top 30 2011

[Bjorn Le]

I disagree with a quite a bit of it but I definitely agree with where Beaulieu is. I don't see him as a first rounder either.

I would take Rask, Namesnikov, Lucia and Grimaldi all out of the top 30.

I'd also definitely have Strome ahead of Huburdeau. Really don't understand why hes getting top 5 consideration, the closest comparison for a center in the top 10 but not top 5 is Strome and Strome is doing better with worse teammates.

 

[AmericanDream]

No, but what I am saying is that he should be given plenty of time to add that size. It's not like the kid is short. He's above average height. Weight and muscle mass is something that can be added with hard work, something he is no stranger to according to many many many reports.



Doubters in regards to his goal scoring totals. Which have drastically increased over the last 2 months-ish. That includes a hattrick game last week.

The kid has 19 goals, and will likely finish north of 25. Is that an "elite" number? No it isn't. But I will take 25 goals from a kid who has the best vision in the CHL.


That's fine if you think that he won't go in the top 4. You are allowed to have an opinion. I am just pointing out why some of your logic behind it is flawed, in my opinion.

you make valid points, and are usually pretty solid with the WHL...

I have RNH at #5, its not like I have him ranked outside of the top 10. The kid does have some issues, and that is my fear. You act like putting on pounds is an easy thing to do, for some it isnt. Just look at Wheeler, Turris, JVR, still waiting for this weight gain many of us said would happen.

With RNH, he has solid height, but is thinner then the 170 listed. I have seen the kid play and in person twice on my trips, the kid is a beanpole. He has amazing vision, but if I had a top 3 pick, dont know if I would use it on him.

The goal scoring is a concern. You can say it isnt that big of a deal, but you have to put up the goals as well. Compare him to other visionary players from the WHL like Duchene and Eberle (or insert playmaker here), and see how many goals they had in their draft years.

Maybe RNH goes #1, I hope he does, he is a solid kid, but whoever drafts him better not rush him like Turris, because he will need a few more years before making the jump.....though Nick Leddy is a Blackhawk at 179 lbs, so anything is possible I guess.

 

[AmericanDream]

Well thought out list but like anyone I have some minor tweaks.
My most notable tweak would be flip-flopping Alexander Khokhlachev and Vlad Namestnikov (but that's just me).
Two players that I've seen quite a bit and would have higher would be Ryan Murphy and Stefan Noesen.
If the draft was for 19 year olds and up I suspect Noesen would be 12 to 18 ranking.
He's a late bloomer and even though he's having a really fine season, next year could be his true break-out season.

edited to add.....I would also pick Strome of RNH, His playmaking is almost as good and he's a goalscorer also.

Considering all the NHL scouts would have a different order you did an admirable job.

Thanks Ward, appreciate the comments...

As for the Russians, I guess it is just a hunch I have. I have watched London and Windsor a lot, and for whatever the reason I just think Vlad will be better, not a big fan of Alexander.

Noesen is a riser, many are just starting to get on board with that. If he cracks the top 30, I would be thrilled, kid has solid skills and size, this years Austin Watson perhaps??

Strome is just a joy to watch, many simply dont appreciate him enough on these boards. Kid has all world skills and is a sniper.

 

[Ciccarelli]

He isnt going to make it as a sniper because he just doesnt have the sniper tools. read on.

I'm not even going to touch the other things you said, but really now? A 17 year old boy scoring 17 goals in 41 games in a pro league doesn't have "the sniper tools"?. For comparison Mike York who has three 20+ goals seasons in the NHL, has 14 goals less than Armia (yeah, you do the math) in the same amount of games played. Ofcourse York isn't the same guy he once was, but still a guy who's over a point per game scorer in the AHL last season.

I'm not even complaining about putting Armia 17th, it's just funny that you have the reasonings completely backwards. But I forgive you becose you obviosly haven't seen him play as often as we finns, it's difficult, if not impossible to form an opinion on a player if you haven't seen him play atleast 10 or so times. Players especially at this age tend to get cold streaks, you might have seen them play with injuries etc.

 

[YARR123]

There's no way klefbom and zibanejad are both out of the top 45, both are quite likely first rounders.

I also disagree with the Armia discription. He's more a sniper than a two-way player. Imo he's a skill player that has a very high ceiling, and is pretty boom or bust type of guy. His skating is not an issue anymore, though he will never be a skater like Gaborik for example. BUT Imo a great shot, superb stick handling, and size are sniper tools.

And yes, we hype finnish top prospects way too much because there aren't too many of them around. But then again, most of the Finns here (including me) have seen him play quite a few times, so can give a good assessment of their strengths and weaknesses. Even though were sometimes biased. I'm biased.

 

[AmericanDream]

Good job. But what about Zibanejad? Just forgotten him or you don't see him in your top 45? I'm pretty sure that the guy's going to be picked between 15th and 20th. Other than that, Mayfield maybe too high and Jensen too low. RNH's size worry me and like you said, he could be this year Kyle Turris. I just hope that the team who'll pick him won't rush him like the Yotes did with Turris because the guy's a real talent.

I dont know enough/seen enough of Zibanejad to comment, but he isnt in my top 45. Maybe he belongs there in June, but as it stands he doesnt crack my top 50.

Mayfield is a player that people just dont understand, very similar to how I didnt understand how Gudbranson could go so high with such mediocre stats. Funny thing is now I am defending Mayfield and how he plays similar to Gudbranson!! Bizzaro world I guess.

Mayfield is an all around gem. Plays on the crappiest team around, has little talent to work with, and has to be the rock defensively for this squad. His numbers take a dive for what he needs to do out there, but scouts do see the skills he does posses.

 

[AmericanDream]

I'm not even going to touch the other things you said, but really now? A 17 year old boy scoring 17 goals in 41 games in a pro league doesn't have "the sniper tools"?. For comparison Mike York who has three 20+ goals seasons in the NHL, has 14 goals less than Armia (yeah, you do the math) in the same amount of games played. Ofcourse York isn't the same guy he once was, but still a guy who's over a point per game scorer in the AHL last season.

I'm not even complaining about putting Armia 17th, it's just funny that you have the reasonings completely backwards. But I forgive you becose you obviosly haven't seen him play as often as we finns, it's difficult, if not impossible to form an opinion on a player if you haven't seen him play atleast 10 or so times. Players especially at this age tend to get cold streaks, you might have seen them play with injuries etc.

again, people focus on stats and mens league too much. I clearly said from what I have seen he doesnt look like a sniper. You can bring up stats if you like, but they are only stats. The actual skillset and how I saw him are two different things. If he makes it, it will be as a two way forward from WHAT I HAVE SEEN.

I might have seen some bad games, though I think he looked fine at the WJC, but your last point is 100% the truth. It is very hard for anyone to make their own original top 30 list when so many on here regurgitate the same names because of stats or size or whatever. I made my list on those that I have seen, and the ones that I havent seen enough of are the ones who are down on my list as opposed to others.

Who cares where he is ranked, much more concerned with what type of pro career these kids will have in a few years.

 

[Latex*]

notice how it is based off of from what I have seen. I cant help it that he looks more like a two way forward then a sniper from what I saw. He isnt going to make it as a sniper because he just doesnt have the sniper tools. He has size and played very solid from what I saw of him this season, including the WJC. He is a very inconsistent player, that you cant get an accurate read on.

As for Granlund, still dont think the kid is going to be that great. Dont recall saying he would drop to the second round, but he has more concerns now then he did back then.

You guys from Finland get too worked up in where players from your country get ranked. I have Armia pretty high, dont know if he gets taken that high because he simply isnt dominating in any one area.

I know each year you have less and less players to have hope for, but dont even bother posting because your nationalistic pride is butt hurt over my rankings or analysis. I do this for fun and love doing it to have intelligent debate over where we all see players at differently.

Eh...? I hate patriots, but it seems that you hate Finns (other Europeans) and keep on breaching how awful they are every single year. I'm not a nationalist of any type, more like a liberal...
The first thing you did when i stated my own opinion about Armia and your knowledge of him was that you basically started calling me a nationalist pig... Calm down for god's sake

Just FYI i would rank him just the same as you (15-25), but i just corrected your false information that you spread over here.

 

[yanokovich]

RNH remind me of Craig janney in is good year's in Boston and St-Louis.

 

[AmericanDream]

Eh...? I hate patriots, but it seems that you hate Finns (other Europeans) and keep on breaching how awful they are every single year. I'm not a nationalist of any type, more like a liberal...
The first thing you did when i stated my own opinion about Armia and your knowledge of him was that you basically started calling me a nationalist pig... Calm down for god's sake

Just FYI i would rank him just the same as you (15-25), but i just corrected your false information that you spread over here.

you posted like an ass, and I responded in kind....if you dont like it, move on or dont reply.

I am fine with my opinion as I just dont see things the same as you. Many people miss the boat currently on Scott Mayfield, couldnt care less, let the kid prove everyone wrong.

This is just par for the course with Finish posters who need to make OFFICIAL threads over every player that shows any glimmer of hope.

Armia will not be a sniper. That is my opinion, I dont need you to play superman and try to correct the opinion I formed from what I have seen.

Funny part is I keep hearing about Armia and how he has such solid stats against men, but that he played poorly at the WJC against kids his own age....not sure what to make of that.

I have no problem with any Euro player, it is usually the Euro poster that takes things overboard.

 

[AmericanDream]

I disagree with a quite a bit of it but I definitely agree with where Beaulieu is. I don't see him as a first rounder either.

I would take Rask, Namesnikov, Lucia and Grimaldi all out of the top 30.

I'd also definitely have Strome ahead of Huburdeau. Really don't understand why hes getting top 5 consideration, the closest comparison for a center in the top 10 but not top 5 is Strome and Strome is doing better with worse teammates.

it was a tough case with Strome as I simply love the kid a lot, but in the end I have him behind Huburdeau currently.

As for Rask, I agree, I think he might fall out of the top 30, said it in there as well, but when he is on, he is a very solid player...tough to drop him when I know he has the skill to be more.

Why would you drop Lucia? What have you seen from him?

Grimaldi isthe Rodney Dangerfield of the draft (gets no respect), so I am used to hearing that, but I am very anxious to see come June just how high he gets drafted. The better Nathan Gerbe keeps playing, the higher the chance this kid will get drafted high.

 

[YARR123]

you posted like an ass, and I responded in kind....if you dont like it, move on or dont reply.

I am fine with my opinion as I just dont see things the same as you. Many people miss the boat currently on Scott Mayfield, couldnt care less, let the kid prove everyone wrong.

This is just par for the course with Finish posters who need to make OFFICIAL threads over every player that shows any glimmer of hope.

Armia will not be a sniper. That is my opinion, I dont need you to play superman and try to correct the opinion I formed from what I have seen.

Funny part is I keep hearing about Armia and how he has such solid stats against men, but that he played poorly at the WJC against kids his own age....not sure what to make of that.

I have no problem with any Euro player, it is usually the Euro poster that takes things overboard.

If you dont like people commenting and correcting your list why post a list? Isn't that kind of the point that people correct you? First you say that one is an ass for just bashing your comments and not correcting them, and now you don't want to hear them? Stop posting lists if you dont like people not liking them.

 

[GetThePuckOut]

RNH is an amazing player to watch. He's going to huge for whatever fan base he gets drafted to.

His size though is a concern. It's not so much that he's skinny, it's that he seems to have very narrow shoulders. He might not even be able to get that big at all. I think between him and Turris, Turris will be the bigger, stronger player when they're both matured.

 

[YARR123]

RNH is an amazing player to watch. He's going to huge for whatever fan base he gets drafted to.

His size though is a concern. It's not so much that he's skinny, it's that he seems to have very narrow shoulders. He might not even be able to get that big at all. I think between him and Turris, Turris will be the bigger, stronger player when they're both matured.

Shoulders widen with muscle training, he is able to get as muscular as anyone, but right now it will take a few years to fill his frame.

 

[Bjorn Le]

it was a tough case with Strome as I simply love the kid a lot, but in the end I have him behind Huburdeau currently.

As for Rask, I agree, I think he might fall out of the top 30, said it in there as well, but when he is on, he is a very solid player...tough to drop him when I know he has the skill to be more.

Why would you drop Lucia? What have you seen from him?

Grimaldi isthe Rodney Dangerfield of the draft (gets no respect), so I am used to hearing that, but I am very anxious to see come June just how high he gets drafted. The better Nathan Gerbe keeps playing, the higher the chance this kid will get drafted high.

I haven't seen Lucia at all only heard things, so its based completely on that and how other organizations rank him. The High School crop is never that great to begin with, and it looks pretty bad this year. He looks like your typical mid second rounder to me. So many other players that are playing in tougher leagues that should be more consideration, especially on that "mid second rounder" level.

You really can't tell how a player that small will translate his game. Gerbe proved he could, but you can't use that as a basis for Grimaldi. It is very high risk to pick him in the first round. Its still high risk to pick him in the second round. Hes high reward, but extremley high risk.

Hes at least 2-3 years away from anything Pro related, so it'll be awhile before we know. Any player can bust at pro level, 5'6 players are so much more likely, which is one of the reasons they rarely get drafted.

 

[AmericanDream]

If you dont like people commenting and correcting your list why post a list? Isn't that kind of the point that people correct you? First you say that one is an ass for just bashing your comments and not correcting them, and now you don't want to hear them? Stop posting lists if you dont like people not liking them.

I have no problems with intelligent debate...been doing that this entire thread with others...

but it seems once the Finish contingent comes on, they derail a thread. look at the original Armia post and tell me that post was anything worth more then toilet paper.

You can have debate, and thats why I do this. But when someone has an opinion of a player, others need to respect that opinion and realize that people see things differently.

I have clearly stated that I do not see Armia as a sniper from what I have seen, I am not going out there and telling you guys that he wont be a sniper and trying to correct your views. It is my opinion, and debate is good, but trashing someones opinion (which is what he did) is childish and stupid. I am defending my opinion and stating that I dont need anyone else to tell me how to think a player should be viewed. That is for the rest of the sheep on here that simply state what others have put. I view things for myself, some I get right, some I get wrong, but in the end it is still my opinion.

If Armia becomes a sniper in the NHL, God bless him, but neither you nor I know what this kid will be if he even makes it to the NHL.

 

[AmericanDream]

I haven't seen Lucia at all only heard things, so its based completely on that and how other organizations rank him. The High School crop is never that great to begin with, and it looks pretty bad this year. He looks like your typical mid second rounder to me. So many other players that are playing in tougher leagues that should be more consideration, especially on that "mid second rounder" level.

You really can't tell how a player that small will translate his game. Gerbe proved he could, but you can't use that as a basis for Grimaldi. It is very high risk to pick him in the first round. Its still high risk to pick him in the second round. Hes high reward, but extremley high risk.

Hes at least 2-3 years away from anything Pro related, so it'll be awhile before we know. Any player can bust at pro level, 5'6 players are so much more likely, which is one of the reasons they rarely get drafted.

well to be fair you are basing things by circumstances (with Lucia), then being a hypocrit and saying that I shouldnt base things on circumstances with Gerbe/Grimaldi.

You havent seen Lucia, yet you are basing an opinion off of US Highschool (not sure what that means as more and more US Highschoolers are getting drafted 1st round and having nice careers), things you have heard, and other stuff. Why even post anything about Lucia when you have nothing relevant to base this on? You are making claims and statements in regards to a player you have no clue about.

Then you say that Gerbe holds no bearing on Grimaldi, and I will argue that and say yes it does because seeing a player like Gerbe who is similar to Grimaldi in so many ways doing fine in the NHL will show NHL gm's that there is a place for Grimaldi. I agree it is a high risk to pick Grimaldi in the first round, but it is a high risk to pick a US Highschooler, man child power forwards/defensemen, BCHL kid, a goalie, etc all in the first round, yet it still happens.

On talent alone, both Lucia and Grimaldi will be first round picks. If other factors do present itself, then both might not, but at least see the player before commenting on how they shouldnt be a top 30 pick.

 

[YARR123]

I agree fully, but then you started talking about your opinions being "from what you have seen" and "I dont need you to play superman and try to correct the opinion I formed from what I have seen". I'm just saying thats pretty contradictory.

 

[cheerupmurray]

Mika Zibanejad's missing. He's a better prospect than Rask for sure.

I completely agree. Rask could turn out fine, and his stats are actually great for a 17-year old in Allsvenskan, but he has not improved his draft stock this season. I guess he could still be a first-rounder if he does well in wjc-18 though. Zibanejad has done nothing but raise his draft stock this season and have really played impressive when he got the chance to play in SEL. Klefbom probably wont go in the first round is my guess, but that kid could turn out to be completely amazing. His skating and mobility is extremely good for a skater that size. He also have good vision and can produce as he showed in Ivan Hlinka.

 

[YNWA14]

Shoulders widen with muscle training, he is able to get as muscular as anyone, but right now it will take a few years to fill his frame.

...that's not how the body works.

Depending on your genes it can be very difficult to put muscle on, but your frame will always be your frame (hence, why it is named as such.) RNH is a typical ectomorph which means that he's always going to be fighting an uphill battle to put on size. It's not impossible; it will just be harder than it would be for people that are naturally bigger.

 

[Latex*]

I have no problems with intelligent debate...been doing that this entire thread with others...

but it seems once the Finish contingent comes on, they derail a thread. look at the original Armia post and tell me that post was anything worth more then toilet paper.

You can have debate, and thats why I do this. But when someone has an opinion of a player, others need to respect that opinion and realize that people see things differently.

I have clearly stated that I do not see Armia as a sniper from what I have seen, I am not going out there and telling you guys that he wont be a sniper and trying to correct your views. It is my opinion, and debate is good, but trashing someones opinion (which is what he did) is childish and stupid. I am defending my opinion and stating that I dont need anyone else to tell me how to think a player should be viewed. That is for the rest of the sheep on here that simply state what others have put. I view things for myself, some I get right, some I get wrong, but in the end it is still my opinion.

If Armia becomes a sniper in the NHL, God bless him, but neither you nor I know what this kid will be if he even makes it to the NHL.

I just expressed my opinion, and when asked to back my opinion up i did.
My intention was not to derail the thread and IMO, i didn't. If i remember right it was you who started to bash Finns and not leaving any room for serious conversation.
Period.

 

[smitty10]

No Dmitrij Jaskin???

I've seen some lists with him in the top 20.

 

[YARR123]

...that's not how the body works.

Depending on your genes it can be very difficult to put muscle on, but your frame will always be your frame (hence, why it is named as such.) RNH is a typical ectomorph which means that he's always going to be fighting an uphill battle to put on size. It's not impossible; it will just be harder than it would be for people that are naturally bigger.

Obvoiusly true, I was just trying to say that muscle mass can be built by any person, bad genes or good genes, male or female. And that shoulderwidth has nothing to do with your "frame", Shoulders will widen with muscle development, be it hard or easy for a person to build muscle.

 

[Bjorn Le]

well to be fair you are basing things by circumstances (with Lucia), then being a hypocrit and saying that I shouldnt base things on circumstances with Gerbe/Grimaldi.

You havent seen Lucia, yet you are basing an opinion off of US Highschool (not sure what that means as more and more US Highschoolers are getting drafted 1st round and having nice careers), things you have heard, and other stuff. Why even post anything about Lucia when you have nothing relevant to base this on? You are making claims and statements in regards to a player you have no clue about.

Then you say that Gerbe holds no bearing on Grimaldi, and I will argue that and say yes it does because seeing a player like Gerbe who is similar to Grimaldi in so many ways doing fine in the NHL will show NHL gm's that there is a place for Grimaldi. I agree it is a high risk to pick Grimaldi in the first round, but it is a high risk to pick a US Highschooler, man child power forwards/defensemen, BCHL kid, a goalie, etc all in the first round, yet it still happens.

On talent alone, both Lucia and Grimaldi will be first round picks. If other factors do present itself, then both might not, but at least see the player before commenting on how they shouldnt be a top 30 pick.

I'm saying 2 diffrent things about Lucia and Grimaldi. Nobody knows how well Grimadil will translate his talent to the NHL, and generally, small players have a very hard time. Reason why theres been only a handful of 5'6 players ever in the NHL.

Then for Lucia, I'm saying you're the first person I've seen put him in the first round. He seems like a typical 2nd round pick, and as I said before, theres players similar to that who play in much harder leagues. How is that being a a hypocrite?

On Grimadi, I don't think you can compare him to Gerbe, Gerbe proved he can translate, but you can't use that logic to say Grimaldi deserves to go in the 1st because if Gerbe did it Grimaldi should be able to too.

Most people on this site haven't seen ever player, you haven't seen every player you listed either. You have a notable bias for putting American players higher then they should be, if a player is a extremley high risk pick, like Grimaldi, its hard to argue hes should go in the first round. And for players you haven't seen, you have to base it off what others have said.

Your arguement, "based on talent alone" doesn't really mean much, based on talent, Nugent Hopkins should go 1st overall easily, and Murphy at 2nd, since they are the most "talented" players in the draft. Theres a lot more to it then talent, and even if I haven't seen Lucia I can tell its probably more than a bit strange you put him in the first round.

 

[Tormentor]

I know each year you have less and less players to have hope for

Actually that's not right, for a few years we had next to nothing and now we definitely have something. It might not be much, but we have never been a country of plenty. Things are looking slightly better in Finnish junior hockey at the moment. For example our U18 national team won Czech Republic, Sweden and Russia this week with 5 notable forwards (Armia, Salomäki, Salminen, Torniainen and Ahlgren) absent from the roster. What's even more impressive, our U16 national team won Russia tonight, an achievement that's almost unheard of at U16 level.