OT: The Downfall of Paul Fenton

[ConnorMcMullet]

That's not from the article

I know, but I believe the poster was quoting the article.

 

[Bazeek]

I know, but I believe the poster was quoting the article.

He wasn't, he was joking. That quote is nowhere in Russo's article or any other article.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

He wasn't, he was joking. That quote is nowhere in Russo's article or any other article.

My bad. I thought it sounded pretty ridiculous.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

remember when Fenton was the next "big GM" cause he worked for Poile?
not all good assistant GMs turn out good

 

[Aerrol]

Posted in the general OT thread but man this is a great reminder that we have almost no ability to really evaluate GM candidates, especially those who haven't been GM before. I really wanted Fenton. Talk about a bullet dodged.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

This should serve as a reminder to those who think hiring someone without any prior experience is automatically a good hire because theyre just new.

Saw many comments decrying the holland tippet hires because they wanted someone “new”.

 

[CanmoreMike]

The article reminded me of the stories we heard out of Philadelphia about Hextall and how he got paranoid, didn’t trust anyone and isolated himself from his staff. We heard similar things about Chiarelli here. I think it really shows what happens when you bring an outsider in and force him to retain the old staff. It’s dysfunctional and doesn’t work. Looked to me like Leopold and Fenton were never on the same page and that the Wild hired him without doing their due diligence on him. Looks like he was hired because he was supposed to be the next big thing. Risk you run hiring somebody else’s assistant GM. You don’t really know what you’re getting. That’s what I was worried about with the thought of hiring someone like Mccrimmon or some of the other names being trotted out. It really is a crap shoot.

This a 1000x.

I have frequently been called out for not joining the mob to yell about Chiarelli. But if you hire from outside then 100% that person needs to have the autonomy to work with who he wants and let go of the rest.

I know if I was taking any type of management position and the ousted person was going to be answering to me I'd be very hesitant that they wouldn't want to undermine my authority and every decision. Did that happen here? Maybe, maybe not. But it is telling that numerous people have cited that the Reinhardt trade was an OBC move FROM DAY ONE...and yet nobody faced the consequences for it.

For the record, Chiarelli deserved to be fired for his moves this year. I'd even go so far as saying it seems he was actively trying to get fired. But it was an untenable situation to work in and I am glad Ken Holland isn't facing the same issues.

This organization might be getting it right.

 

[KMart27]

This a 1000x.

I have frequently been called out for not joining the mob to yell about Chiarelli. But if you hire from outside then 100% that person needs to have the autonomy to work with who he wants and let go of the rest.

I know if I was taking any type of management position and the ousted person was going to be answering to me I'd be very hesitant that they wouldn't want to undermine my authority and every decision. Did that happen here? Maybe, maybe not. But it is telling that numerous people have cited that the Reinhardt trade was an OBC move FROM DAY ONE...and yet nobody faced the consequences for it.

For the record, Chiarelli deserved to be fired for his moves this year. I'd even go so far as saying it seems he was actively trying to get fired. But it was an untenable situation to work in and I am glad Ken Holland isn't facing the same issues.

This organization might be getting it right.

Numerous people have certainly made assumptions about the Reinhart trade. I think we all agree that Bob Green was the person in the organization who likely wanted Reinhart the most. Green has long been on record that he did not watch Reinhart play in the AHL/NHL that season. If the GM is trading for a player off the recommendation of somebody that had not watched the player in pro hockey, that's on the GM. It is also up to the GM to determine the value of the trade. It's his job to say that the Islanders wanted too much. Chiarelli could have made changes. Either he chose not to or didn't think other changes were needed. Whichever it was, it's on him.

 

[CanmoreMike]

Numerous people have certainly made assumptions about the Reinhart trade. I think we all agree that Bob Green was the person in the organization who likely wanted Reinhart the most. Green has long been on record that he did not watch Reinhart play in the AHL/NHL that season. If the GM is trading for a player off the recommendation of somebody that had not watched the player in pro hockey, that's on the GM. It is also up to the GM to determine the value of the trade. It's his job to say that the Islanders wanted too much. Chiarelli could have made changes. Either he chose not to or didn't think other changes were needed. Whichever it was, it's on him.

Honestly, I'm not saying you are wrong or anything. I don't know the whole Bob Green story on Griffin Reinhardt - I do know that Brian Burke has said that Chiarelli was pushed very hard internally to make that move. And considering he knew he needed a right-shot defenseman I will believe to my grave - until otherwise confirmed - that he originally called the Isles about Hamonic, was offered Reinhardt and the Old Bozos Club members fell out of their chairs in excitement.

My point on this topic here and in other threads has always been that the culture that Katz expected his GMs to inherit and the infringement from the OBC would drive Sam Pollock crazy. And, as The Athletic article articulates, these issues are clearly not reserved to the Oilers. All the trolls that think such a culture can't or won't happen to them should wake up.

I am optimistic that this organization is finally getting it right and that Ken Holland is bringing in some fresh changes that are long overdue. My intentions have never been to exonerate Chiarelli for his failings but to illustrate that the culture around this team was probably not the most conducive environment to deal with.

Bottom line is it is over and hopefully Katz has learned his lessons and will watch and cheer this team and leave the rest to the pros and not worry about his childhood heroes getting promoted.

Cheers

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The temptation to sign up for the athletic is strong.

Is it worth it?

 

[Aerrol]

The temptation to sign up for the athletic is strong.

Is it worth it?

Only if you want information about other teams (American especially) and perhaps other sports. I enjoy it a lot but the Oilers content is pretty thin other than Nugent Bowman imo.

 

[CanmoreMike]

The temptation to sign up for the athletic is strong.

Is it worth it?

Pros:

No ads
Not that expensive
Solid stories
Good writers
Tailor your feed
Reasonable discussions in comments (very few trolls)
Can swear in comments (or you could)

Cons:
Alerts about most stories gets annoying
If you get an alert about a response to your comment you aren’t taken directly to your comment...which means scrolling through 100+ comments looking for yours and the response.
As I understand it if a topic isn’t in your feed you don’t see the stories. So if you have a passing interest in NFL you need to subscribe to the NFL feed and wade through ALL their stories.

Hope that helps.

 

[FlameChampion]

The temptation to sign up for the athletic is strong.

Is it worth it?

I like it for things like Pronmans additional draft coverage. I don’t necessarily like his opinion at times but I like the extra information.

There’s another guy (Dom L.) that does write ups on on analytical models and season projections that are pretty interested.

Then lots about other teams like Russo for the Wild.

Oilers are basically Lowetide, Willis and Nugent Bowman. I think we hear so much from these guys (Lowetide and Willis) in particular that it almost feels watered down. I think for me though, I am just tired of reading articles when the team is bad. Drop the puck already!

 

[FlameChampion]

In regards to Fenton, I think we have to keep in mind as fans that some of these up and coming personnel are not what they are always cracked up to be. At the same time, we don’t really know what goes on behind the scenes.

When it comes to the moves, I find it confusing because there seems to be no plan. They couldn’t figure out if they are getting younger or older. It could just be that Fenton wanted to do one thing and Leipold wanted to do something else, and the moves are a mishmash of that.

I found Leipolds comments about how it wasn’t so much the hockey stuff but that Fenton wasn’t a leader, kinda weird. I think it just reaffirms that hockey management is a country club because why else would someone like Chiarelli have another interview so soon? Its not so much what these guys do, its how well they can fake their way through things. Chiarelli can obviously do it a bit and Fenton couldn’t.

But at the end of the day I think its hard to really know what goes on behind the scenes. Who really knows how much the failed GMs are to blame.

 

[bucks_oil]

If it was the latter - let's just say I'm glad Holland and company are working from a cleaner slate than Chiarelli was.

I think an interesting question is: why did Chia not clean house, whereas Holland has been taking active steps in that regard. Perhaps it's the "don't F with me, I'm doing this my way" mentality Holland is bringing to the job, and given his credentials, even Lowe can't criticize... or perhaps Chia had every opportunity/autonomy to do so... and wasn't sharp/experienced enough to see the issues?

 

[Aceboogie]

This should serve as a reminder to those who think hiring someone without any prior experience is automatically a good hire because theyre just new.

Saw many comments decrying the holland tippet hires because they wanted someone “new”.

You can have a rigorous hiring process and get a sense for a GM prior to be hired. I mean Minny has always been a bit of a tire fore organizationally. It's very likely they just hired Fenton because he was the most hyped "new" GM at the time and understudy of Poile. A bit of work and they could have discovered his issues beforehand

Having a rigorous hiring process is the key. If it's a vet GM or new GM that's the right fot, so be it. The Oilers issue for the past 10 years and still ongoing is that we have never really done a GM search

We hired MacT right away, chiarello was a instant hire and so was Holland.

 

[rboomercat90]

The temptation to sign up for the athletic is strong.

Is it worth it?

Don’t know if it’s worth it or not but I did get the free trial to read the article. Your post reminded me to cancel. Thank You.

 

[CanmoreMike]

I think an interesting question is: why did Chia not clean house, whereas Holland has been taking active steps in that regard. Perhaps it's the "don't F with me, I'm doing this my way" mentality Holland is bringing to the job, and given his credentials, even Lowe can't criticize... or perhaps Chia had every opportunity/autonomy to do so... and wasn't sharp/experienced enough to see the issues?

That’s a very good question. I don’t know the answer.

There is an old story (IBM I believe) where someone made a stupid error in sales and cost the company $10M. He assumed he was getting fired. His boss didn’t. Said they just spent $10M on what is hopefully a valuable lesson on something that won’t happen again

Did Chiarelli take this tact? Was he forced? Was he holding onto people to scapegoat later to cover up his mistakes?

I’m a believer in the right fit. Bare with me - this is just to illustrate a point: maybe with hockey knowledge Chiarelli knows more about building a hockey team than Holland. But personnel wise Holland knows more than Chiarelli. Chiarelli would have been a fish out of water here fixing the culture with an idea on how to build a team. Holland might not be making all the right moves (maybe Lucic returns to 2014 form in Calgary) but personnel wise within the organization he’s making all the right calls and this team will be better for it.

I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. Who knows. It is a good question to ask.

 

[rboomercat90]

I think an interesting question is: why did Chia not clean house, whereas Holland has been taking active steps in that regard. Perhaps it's the "don't F with me, I'm doing this my way" mentality Holland is bringing to the job, and given his credentials, even Lowe can't criticize... or perhaps Chia had every opportunity/autonomy to do so... and wasn't sharp/experienced enough to see the issues?

That’s a huge question and unfortunately one we’ll likely never have the answer to, forcing us to just speculate.

I do find it interesting though (and appreciate) that Katz took the podium this time when Holland was hired. Especially with his physical problems. Maybe if he had done that last time it would have helped clear the air about how the organization was actually going to be structured going forward. When the boss shows up, it looks like there is a plan going forward. When he doesn’t and the guys in front of the microphone can’t even tell the public how things are going to work it looks like they don’t even know themselves. That approach doesn’t make anything look believable.

 

[rboomercat90]

You can have a rigorous hiring process and get a sense for a GM prior to be hired. I mean Minny has always been a bit of a tire fore organizationally. It's very likely they just hired Fenton because he was the most hyped "new" GM at the time and understudy of Poile. A bit of work and they could have discovered his issues beforehand

Having a rigorous hiring process is the key. If it's a vet GM or new GM that's the right fot, so be it. The Oilers issue for the past 10 years and still ongoing is that we have never really done a GM search

We hired MacT right away, chiarello was a instant hire and so was Holland.

Holland was not an instant hire. This team, so we are told, had been interviewing for that position for months. They knew who was on the market when they made the hire. They also know who Ken Holland is. There are no comparisons whatsoever to how this GM search went and every other so called search that was conducted since Sather left.

 

[Aceboogie]

Holland was not an instant hire. This team, so we are told, had been interviewing for that position for months. They knew who was on the market when they made the hire. They also know who Ken Holland is. There are no comparisons whatsoever to how this GM search went and every other so called search that was conducted since Sather left.

We can only go off rumors, and we interviewed next to noone and were basically going to go with K Gretzky until Holland became available

There is absolutely a comparable to other searches. Hell, the same thing happened in 2015. Chiarelli comes available and hes hired pretty much instantly.

Let's not act like Bobby Nics did any sort of due diligence

 

[GhostfaceWu]

This is something that can torpedo someones career and the way he acted it is completely justified.

 

[Tyrolean]

I think they did interview with a few candidates. We, the public is not privy to this information in detail of course.

 

[Senor Catface]

We can only go off rumors, and we interviewed next to noone and were basically going to go with K Gretzky until Holland became available

There is absolutely a comparable to other searches. Hell, the same thing happened in 2015. Chiarelli comes available and hes hired pretty much instantly.

Let's not act like Bobby Nics did any sort of due diligence

Do you even think about research?

The interview process started in March. Nicholson said on record that he had talked to lots of people in the game. Several other candidates got second interviews. Other candidates got a single interview.

I hate defending Nicholson, but really.

There wasn't a walk-on hire.

 

[scotchtapejr]

Another day another poster desperately clinging onto the OBC narrative because theyre too simple to digest and accept basic information from multitude of sources that contradict their own unsubstantiated beliefs.