The Devils Prime Cup Contending Years are Now

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
129,839
75,232
New Jersey, Exit 16E
Sure the D needs work, but even after Butcher and Zacha sign they'll still have space during the season to make changes. After Gusev they still have $12.4 million in space. At best Zacha and Butcher take up about 8.

It’s still improved from the group that made the playoffs two years ago too. Butcher can still improve and both Subban and Smith are definite upgrades.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,056
22,927
Miami, FL
I'm totally prepared to toss the kids the keys and see what they can do. They have the attitude and the aptitude to figure it out on the fly.

The only glaring issue I see is goaltending. I have little to no confidence in Schneider right now, and Blackwood still has some work to do.
 

RangerDoggo

The Devils have a culture of failure
Feb 3, 2016
3,166
2,592
Brooklyn via NJ, like the Nets
Maybe I wouldn't go as far as the thread title, but it's abundantly clear that we're out of the rebuild and the time to compete is now. I have two lingering concerns:
  1. Goaltending. This point going to be beaten to death by the pundits, the experts, and our fans alike, and I'm sure it was touched on in this very thread. So I'm not gonna beat a dead horse because I have a lot to say about:
  2. Coaching. As far as I'm concerned, John Hynes is only here because Ray Shero sticks by his coaches even when doing so would get him fired (which happened in Pittsburgh) and because Taylor Hall likes him. The good thing about him is that he gives youth a much longer leash than most NHL coaches- I don't see Jesper Bratt getting such an early start to his career on most other teams. However, I've never liked him when it comes to tactics. Offensively, he's too reliant on the long pass out of transition to create high-chance plays. Defensively, he's... off. I've explained the Devils defense before as being too passive. At least one other person has countered by saying it's too aggressive. Whatever it is, it results in way too many minute-plus possessions by opponents. He coached defense for the US in the IIHF Worlds and it showed- the defense couldn't get anything going against Slovakia and it gave up three goals to the UK, who haven't been there in a very long time. On the power play, he is maddeningly inconsistent. To put it bluntly, I don't think he's the coach of the future. If we underachieve to any degree next season, he needs to go.
Still, I'm nothing but excited about the start of the season and I'm not going to let those two concerns weigh me down too much.
 

Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
3,997
Columbus, Ohio
Maybe I wouldn't go as far as the thread title, but it's abundantly clear that we're out of the rebuild and the time to compete is now. I have two lingering concerns:
  1. Goaltending. This point going to be beaten to death by the pundits, the experts, and our fans alike, and I'm sure it was touched on in this very thread. So I'm not gonna beat a dead horse because I have a lot to say about:
  2. Coaching. As far as I'm concerned, John Hynes is only here because Ray Shero sticks by his coaches even when doing so would get him fired (which happened in Pittsburgh) and because Taylor Hall likes him. The good thing about him is that he gives youth a much longer leash than most NHL coaches- I don't see Jesper Bratt getting such an early start to his career on most other teams. However, I've never liked him when it comes to tactics. Offensively, he's too reliant on the long pass out of transition to create high-chance plays. Defensively, he's... off. I've explained the Devils defense before as being too passive. At least one other person has countered by saying it's too aggressive. Whatever it is, it results in way too many minute-plus possessions by opponents. He coached defense for the US in the IIHF Worlds and it showed- the defense couldn't get anything going against Slovakia and it gave up three goals to the UK, who haven't been there in a very long time. On the power play, he is maddeningly inconsistent. To put it bluntly, I don't think he's the coach of the future. If we underachieve to any degree next season, he needs to go.
Still, I'm nothing but excited about the start of the season and I'm not going to let those two concerns weigh me down too much.

Let’s be clear - I’m not saying we are currently cup contenders, just that given the current situation of our roster, our cap situation, our existing contracts, and our asset pool, the Devils’ prime opportunity for a cup is likely the next 1-3 seasons. To actually win a cup we need to make multiple additional savvy moves, I have no doubt, and get formidable player development.
 

Devilsgrl35

Registered User
Feb 15, 2009
6,770
5,167
New York
I am very excited for this season, the most I've been excited in a long time, but we are not cup contenders this upcoming season. I expect to compete for playoffs this season and for this group to learn and grow together. After this season is when I expect it all to come together and become a force in the league.

Shero has done an unbelievable job building this team the right way so that we'll be a perennial playoff team and hopefully in the not too distant future we'll reach the summit.
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,457
11,711
I'm totally prepared to toss the kids the keys and see what they can do. They have the attitude and the aptitude to figure it out on the fly.

The only glaring issue I see is goaltending. I have little to no confidence in Schneider right now, and Blackwood still has some work to do.
Are you just not confident that Schneider can stay healthy?

I thought he proved late last year that if healthy he can still play.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
71,819
44,246
PA
in his final 17 games last year, Schneider had a .921 SV% and 2.46 GAA
Blackwood put up a .918 and 2.61 GAA in his first games in the NHL

most of this was behind a subpar lineup the 2nd half of last season

Vancouver was 16th in the NHL (midway point) with a .905 SV%. I don't think its too out of the question to think that the tandem of Schneider/Blackwood can at least be league average if they can stay healthy.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,056
22,927
Miami, FL
Are you just not confident that Schneider can stay healthy?

I thought he proved late last year that if healthy he can still play.
He can clearly still play at a high level for stretches. But I'm very concerned about his durability, both physically and mentally.

I really don't have any confidence he can be a reliable starter in the NHL anymore. Can he still have killer games that he steals all by himself? Sure. But I think he's going to be an inconsistent and streaky guy who rides high and crashes low.
 
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Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
3,997
Columbus, Ohio
He can clearly still play at a high level for stretches. But I'm very concerned about his durability, both physically and mentally.

I really don't have any confidence he can be a reliable starter in the NHL anymore. Can he still have killer games that he steals all by himself? Sure. But I think he's going to be an inconsistent and streaky guy who rides high and crashes low.

I'm far more interested in Blackwood's performance than Schneider's, frankly.
 
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JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
27,890
I think you can do just fine with average(even slightly below average) goaltending....but suspect goaltending and defense? Not a chance.

I think you are going to need 4 things to happen to get decent defense this season.

1. Substantially more forward support.
2. Greene finds fountain of youth
3. Smith has an excellent rookie season.
4. Butcher improves his overall game significantly or is replaced.
 

Blackjack

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
18,134
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I think you can do just fine with average(even slightly below average) goaltending....but suspect goaltending and defense? Not a chance.

I think you are going to need 4 things to happen to get decent defense this season.

1. Substantially more forward support.
2. Greene finds fountain of youth
3. Smith has an excellent rookie season.
4. Butcher improves his overall game significantly or is replaced.

Our defense is far better than it was in 2017-2018 when it was good enough to make the playoffs in front of Keith Kinkaid.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,056
22,927
Miami, FL
Kinkaid played out of his mind for three months, though. It's easy to laugh at him getting traded for a 15 year old, but he was seriously excellent during that stretch.
 

My3Sons

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...
Sponsor
I can't help but feel that Greene holding on for one more season is blocking a potential addition at LD. Butcher and Smith are the best choices for LD2 and 3 right now. Greene wears the C and commands a certain amount of respect in the locker room even if he is not capable of playing against the other team's top players anymore. If Mueller was the only extra LD then Shero could make a move if one was available. Right now, it's hard to see him sitting Greene and it's a waste to keep Smith around if he is going to sit in the press box most nights to have Mueller or Greene play LD3. The team has a big need at LD but less flexibility there with Greene and to some extent, Smith (although Smith is a perfect LD3 for this season).
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
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Our defense is far better than it was in 2017-2018 when it was good enough to make the playoffs in front of Keith Kinkaid.

Kinkaid was amazing that year....He probably was the only reason we made the playoffs... From January 16th to the end of the season He won 21 out of 30 games with .918 SV%

GPDECGASASVSV%SOPIMTOI
3021-7-173895822.918121698:57
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
In the final 20 games he was at his best - From February 13th

GPDECGASASVSV%SOPIMTOI
2116-3-148679631.929121238:48
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I don't think this defense is much better either...Adding Subban will make the defense somewhat better but I think the same exact problems still exist...They all stem from poorly matched pairings and a very weak left side.

Greene is not the same player he was two years ago and as much as it pains me to say it Moore was significantly better than any other LHD we have today. You had Vatanen and Severson now you've upgraded one of those to Subban on the right side...But our right side really was never an issue, the problem was Moore, Butcher, Mueller all weren't capable of playing quality top 4 minutes and had to be paired with less than ideal partners...I don't see the pairing situation any better today. Then Greene and Vatanen were your best defensive defensmen and probably still are right now. That is why I don't think the the defense is much better.

We can hide some of the defensive problems with better puck possession this season hopefully. But that left side and the fact almost all of our defensemen are weak defensively is still a major problem.
 
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None Shall Pass

Dano moisturizes
Jul 7, 2007
15,379
11,597
Brooklyn
A healthy Vatanen all year and the addition of Subban is already a big step forward for this defense. Not to mention Ty Smith is gonna be good.
 

Blackjack

Registered User
Feb 13, 2003
18,134
14,920
keyjhboardd +bro]ke
Visit site
Kinkaid was amazing that year....He probably was the only reason we made the playoffs... From January 16th to the end of the season He won 21 out of 30 games with .918 SV%

GPDECGASASVSV%SOPIMTOI
3021-7-173895822.918121698:57
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
In the final 20 games he was at his best - From February 13th

GPDECGASASVSV%SOPIMTOI
2116-3-148679631.929121238:48
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I don't think this defense is much better either...Adding Subban will make the defense somewhat better but I think the same exact problems still exist...They all stem from poorly matched pairings and a very weak left side.

Greene is not the same player he was two years ago and as much as it pains me to say it Moore was significantly better than any other LHD we have today. You had Vatanen and Severson now you've upgraded one of those to Subban on the right side...But our right side really was never an issue, the problem was Moore, Butcher, Mueller all weren't capable of playing quality top 4 minutes and had to be paired with less than ideal partners...I don't see the pairing situation any better today. Then Greene and Vatanen were your best defensive defensmen and probably still are right now. That is why I don't think the the defense is much better.

We can hide some of the defensive problems with better puck possession this season hopefully. But that left side and the fact almost all of our defensemen are weak defensively is still a major problem.

I think you're wrong.
 
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Triumph

Registered User
Oct 2, 2007
13,474
13,796
Kinkaid was amazing that year....He probably was the only reason we made the playoffs... From January 16th to the end of the season He won 21 out of 30 games with .918 SV%

GPDECGASASVSV%SOPIMTOI
3021-7-173895822.918121698:57
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
In the final 20 games he was at his best - From February 13th

GPDECGASASVSV%SOPIMTOI
2116-3-148679631.929121238:48
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I don't think this defense is much better either...Adding Subban will make the defense somewhat better but I think the same exact problems still exist...They all stem from poorly matched pairings and a very weak left side.

Greene is not the same player he was two years ago and as much as it pains me to say it Moore was significantly better than any other LHD we have today. You had Vatanen and Severson now you've upgraded one of those to Subban on the right side...But our right side really was never an issue, the problem was Moore, Butcher, Mueller all weren't capable of playing quality top 4 minutes and had to be paired with less than ideal partners...I don't see the pairing situation any better today. Then Greene and Vatanen were your best defensive defensmen and probably still are right now. That is why I don't think the the defense is much better.

We can hide some of the defensive problems with better puck possession this season hopefully. But that left side and the fact almost all of our defensemen are weak defensively is still a major problem.

Do you realize how silly it sounds to say something like 'Kinkaid won 21 out of 30 games with a .918 SV%' and think that he is the 'only reason' the Devils made the playoffs? And yeah, he played great. But a .918 SV% isn't going to get you anywhere unless the rest of your team is playing well, as we can obviously see from Cory Schneider's tenure as a Devil - Schneider had a .924 his first three seasons here and was 69-71-27 - he won 69 out of 167 decisions. Decidedly not nice.

Moore being better than Butcher is a ridiculous statement. Moore is and always has been below average. He'll score you a few rush goals every year and that helps him out, but he's poor on zone coverage and is at best breakeven territorially but more likely is far worse. But I admire your commitment to the past.
 

NjDevsRR

Anything Can Happen In Jersey
Sponsor
Apr 24, 2012
28,194
55,770
Belmar
Jesus christ, no one discounts what Kinkaid did at the end of 17-18, he was great. But that doesn’t take away how bad he is overall.
 
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Goptor

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
2,201
2,552
This team has the talent to win the Stanley Cup this year.

They may not have the correct team composition
They may not have the correct coaching
They may not have the experience to push through

Whatever happens, it will not be because they are outmatched on the ice. It is a position the Devils have not been in for a long time, and certainly different than how 2017/2018 turned out.
 
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