The decision to keep the expiring contracts - is it going to backfire

[bluumax]

Nope and the deadline should be out of the equation. It was too late then.
But as you touched on, the decision to keep him was a gamble that they're good enough. Like the Bruins trading for Nash - it was based on the fact that they thought they're good enough to compete. If they don't compete, the gamble failed and it becomes a bad move.

Of course, and again, thats not limited to us and its absolutely not a bad thing.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Of course, and again, thats not limited to us and its absolutely not a bad thing.

Hindsight is 20/20.

True. But Burke and Nonis could have claimed the same thing (and did). They thought they were good enough, didn't trade UFAs and we know how that turned out. Free pass or gamble that failed?

 

[Duffman955]

Had we traded JVR, Bozak etc. We would have gotten swept and people would have the pitchforks ready for Matthews, Nylander and Marner. Hell, the pitchforks are almost ready right now.

 

[Iapyi]

Had we traded JVR, Bozak etc. We would have gotten swept and people would have the pitchforks ready for Matthews, Nylander and Marner. Hell, the pitchforks are almost ready right now.

Yes. Some of these posters think the real game is like the video game and don't understand the importance of real veterans on a team full of young developing kids in their early 20's. They have an extremely narrow minded and unrealistic concept of what it takes to win and to have long term success.

Let's not forget that when we do win these type of people will still be trying to exude their 'expert' opinions.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yes. Some of these posters think the real game is like the video game and don't understand the importance of real veterans on a team full of young developing kids in their early 20's. They have an extremely narrow minded and unrealistic concept of what it takes to win and to have long term success.

Let's not forget that when we do win these type of people will still be trying to exude their 'expert' opinions.

So when the "real veterans" walk at the end of the year, are the Leafs screwed going forward? Or do they go out and spend on other "real veterans"
Seems like a long-term winning formula. Hang on, let them walk, repeat. And then throw 2nd rounders out for patch-work

 

[GoonieFace]

So when the "real veterans" walk at the end of the year, are the Leafs screwed going forward? Or do they go out and spend on other "real veterans"
Seems like a long-term winning formula. Hang on, let them walk, repeat. And then throw 2nd rounders out for patch-work

Huge overreaction.

Who really cares what they could have got for JVR and Bozak. Fact is, they have a very good team and want some postseason success. You don't sacrifice that to get a few draft picks.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Huge overreaction.

Who really cares what they could have got for JVR and Bozak. Fact is, they have a very good team and want some postseason success. You don't sacrifice that to get a few draft picks.

Yes because that's all you could get for JVR - draft picks. Who cares if Gardiner walks next year......

 

[Trapper]

So when the "real veterans" walk at the end of the year, are the Leafs screwed going forward? Or do they go out and spend on other "real veterans"
Seems like a long-term winning formula. Hang on, let them walk, repeat. And then throw 2nd rounders out for patch-work

Yeah we can't trade JVR because we don't have a JVR but it's fine to let JVR walk because we have Kapanen. But we don't want to trade JVR because all we might get is a Kapanen. So we will get cap space. Cap space we still would have got by trading JVR for another Kapanen who isn't worth a JVR return but will replace the soon departed.
Or because we are a contender we are keeping JVR but we are somehow a contender that hasn't won a playoff round to date. But that's why we are keeping JVR who isn't being kept because no big deal losing a 30+ goal scorer.
Or something like that.

 

[Spirit of 67]

True. But Burke and Nonis could have claimed the same thing (and did). They thought they were good enough, didn't trade UFAs and we know how that turned out. Free pass or gamble that failed?

That's nice. They weren't 20 points into a playoff spot at the time though. That kinda matters.

 

[Iapyi]

So when the "real veterans" walk at the end of the year, are the Leafs screwed going forward? Or do they go out and spend on other "real veterans"
Seems like a long-term winning formula. Hang on, let them walk, repeat. And then throw 2nd rounders out for patch-work

You can't just always plug in guys when other players move along. This is not NHL18 [or whatever the video game is called].

Sometimes slotting in another guy works and sometimes it doesn't. It really depends on the dynamics within the team and that is something that none of us actually know despite some posters pretending they have all the answers.

I've seen enough knee jerk band aid solution attempts by this team to last me 18 lifetimes and I prefer a long term winning approach without caving in to The Impatient Fan who is more excited by trades and player movement then anything.

 

[Faltorvo]

That's not the real question.

The real question, quite simply, is, "do you think this team can go on a run"?

Clearly, they thought they were good enough. They still might be, though most here know my thoughts on their chances in this Boston series.

Also - outside of Shattenkirk being traded by the Blues last year, teams in playoff positions just don't sell, especially for future assets. Hockey trade? Maybe. But you don't become a seller at the deadline when you are on pace for 100 points.

Tbay moved a few last year and just missed by 1 point iirc.
I know the sharks have done it also in the past.

As far as i'm concerned nerves are still raw in leaf land.

After 10+ years of JFJr/Burke/Nonis spending the future for the now with nothing but UTTER DISASTER to show for it

leaves one with PTSD, Post trade stress disorder.

If they don't go deep, the "own rentals" will have to go down as this management groups first epic fail. Considering the value of what we held onto.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That's nice. They weren't 20 points into a playoff spot at the time though. That kinda matters.

I was responding to hindsight is 20/20. Which to me is a cop-out. You gamble - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If the Leafs go out in the first round, the regular season point totals mean very little, and they'll be letting a 30 goal scorer and a few others walk for nothing. If the gamble pays off and they go deep in the playoffs, well then I guess you could say it was worth it.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I was responding to hindsight is 20/20. Which to me is a cop-out. You gamble - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If the Leafs go out in the first round, the regular season point totals mean very little, and they'll be letting a 30 goal scorer and a few others walk for nothing. If the gamble pays off and they go deep in the playoffs, well then I guess you could say it was worth it.

It can be tough to tell without the whole convo.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Considering the value of what we held onto.

What was the value?

 

[Legion34]

What was the value?

Exactly.

Leo is done. Stastny got 1. Kane didn’t even get a 1.

1,2,4,5 would be my guess.

We have a million prospects already. What is deep in the playoffs? Boston and tb both spent firsts only 1 can make the final 4. Are they failure?

 

[Faltorvo]

What was the value?

Well, i believe JVR,Bozak,Koma would have gotten us nice returns if traded.

a 1rst and a mit full of 2nds could be had for that lot.

 

[Randy Randerson]

unless we win a cup, wouldn't it have been better for the franchise to get something that would help when the team is actually peaking?

It seems like we kept them for public appearances, which might be a real world factor but seems like a poor reason to make a bad decision for the franchise, especially with the amount of leash that this management group has bought themselves at this point in time

 

[Spirit of 67]

We are starting to peak

unless we win a cup, wouldn't it have been better for the franchise to get something that would help when the team is actually peaking?

It seems like we kept them for public appearances, which might be a real world factor but seems like a poor reason to make a bad decision for the franchise, especially with the amount of leash that this management group has bought themselves at this point in time

We are starting to peak. Some had us as SC finalists in the preseason.

 

[Faltorvo]

Exactly.

Leo is done. Stastny got 1. Kane didn’t even get a 1.

1,2,4,5 would be my guess.

We have a million prospects already. What is deep in the playoffs? Boston and tb both spent firsts only 1 can make the final 4. Are they failure?

Kane can get Buff a 1rst + good prospect.
Nash got a 1rst and prospects
Tatar got a 1rst,2nd,3rd
Stastny 1rst also got a prospect and a 4th
Hartman got a 1rst and prospect
Brassard got a 1rst+3rd

so ya, If Brassard can get a 1rst+3rd i see no reason 2 2nds or 1 rst for Bozak

JVR gets a 1rst or what Nash gets

and Koma lands a 2nd np.

 

[Faltorvo]

Kane can get Buff a 1rst + good prospect.
Nash got a 1rst and prospects
Tatar got a 1rst,2nd,3rd
Stastny 1rst also got a prospect and a 4th
Hartman got a 1rst and prospect
Brassard got a 1rst+3rd

so ya, If Brassard can get a 1rst+3rd i see no reason 2 2nds or 1 rst for Bozak

JVR gets a 1rst or what Nash gets

and Koma lands a 2nd np.

Management knew full well the path needed to go deep when they made their judgement call.

 

[Legion34]

Kane can get Buff a 1rst + good prospect.
Nash got a 1rst and prospects
Tatar got a 1rst,2nd,3rd
Stastny 1rst also got a prospect and a 4th
Hartman got a 1rst and prospect
Brassard got a 1rst+3rd

so ya, If Brassard can get a 1rst+3rd i see no reason 2 2nds or 1 rst for Bozak

JVR gets a 1rst or what Nash gets

and Koma lands a 2nd np.

UFAs. Brassard, Tatar and Hartman are irrelevant.

Kane got a 2nd that gets upgraded if they re sign. Not even a first.
Nash and stats are only comparables.

My guess 1,4 for jvr
2 or 3 for bozak
5 for komorov.

Like I said. Tampa and Boston can’t both make the final 4. Which one screwed up?

 

[taurine330]

unless we win a cup, wouldn't it have been better for the franchise to get something that would help when the team is actually peaking?

It seems like we kept them for public appearances, which might be a real world factor but seems like a poor reason to make a bad decision for the franchise, especially with the amount of leash that this management group has bought themselves at this point in time

If this is the attitude, are we ever going to win? Better trade our players for futures because we have only a small chance of winning (like everyone in the playoffs).

 

[Faltorvo]

UFAs. Brassard, Tatar and Hartman are irrelevant.

Kane got a 2nd that gets upgraded if they re sign. Not even a first.
Nash and stats are only comparables.

My guess 1,4 for jvr
2 or 3 for bozak
5 for komorov.

Like I said. Tampa and Boston can’t both make the final 4. Which one screwed up?

Kane gets Buff a 1rst if he signs

How is Brassard irrelevant?

for our 3 guys --------2 X 1rst and a 2nd or 1rst and 3 2nds minimum. Lets alone prospects and other picks.

Nash got more then just a 1rst, same with Brassard , same with Stastny

 

[Legion34]

Kane gets Buff a 1rst if he signs

How is Brassard irrelevant?

for our 3 guys --------2 X 1rst and a 2nd or 1rst and 3 2nds minimum. Lets alone prospects and other picks.

Nash got more then just a 1rst, same with Brassard , same with Stastny

Brassard has term. He has 1 more year. That’s totally different value. Irrelevant to a pending UFA.
A conditional first is not a first. Kane couldn’t get a first.

Nash is comparable. Maybe by rep he gets more? Who knows.
Bottom line is.

Nash, Winnipeg, Tampa and boston all spent their first plus. 2 of those are 100 percent guaranteed to be out in the second round, maybe all 4. Who made the mistake there? Or is it only the leafs who have a different standards? Or you judge in hindsight?

I can see the argument for signing a winger like marleau and trading jvr. I think we tried. But bottom line is..... we had a bunch of rookies, teams fall off all the time. We kept the assets to make the playoffs and insulate sophmore slumps.

In the season No top 10 team trades assets for futures. Never happens. For a reason. Hall of fame players coaches and gm run this team. They know the effect of it all on teams.

 

[Randy Randerson]

We are starting to peak

We are starting to peak. Some had us as SC finalists in the preseason.

I think those expectations had adjusted by the TDL when the decision was made. It was an uphill battle no matter what, personally I would have waited to put eggs in the compete basket

If this is the attitude, are we ever going to win? Better trade our players for futures because we have only a small chance of winning (like everyone in the playoffs).

yes, just my opinion that we'll be better primed to compete in a year or two for 6-8 beyond that then we are right now, and that the things we would have gotten for the UFA's could have helped as trade currency or ELC talent

Also think that the drop off from Bozak & Komarov to their replacements would be pretty minimal, and other than JVR having a career year we would have had a couple of looks at a good replacement for him in Kapanen & Leivo, so there might not actually have been much sacrifice