The decision to keep the expiring contracts - is it going to backfire

4thline

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Jul 18, 2014
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Were we a contender? 100% we fit in that area. What top team is not? We were not a favourite for the cup, but there is often so many first round upsets that helps teams win the cup when they were not.

Well said. Too many don't understand the difference between contender and favourite and would have us sell off in any year that Vegas doesn't give us better odds than the rest of the field combined.
 

Halla

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Jan 28, 2016
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At the time of what? When they had 105, the season was over. If you mean the TDL then sure, the optics of a trade at that time would have been terrible but at one point in Jan, they were 16th overall and they could have chosen to make a move then.

They didn't want to weaken the team for picks - yes, that was the choice they made and I'm fine with it. Probably not what I would have done (depending on the return we gave up on) but ... I'm fine with it.

obviously at the deadline. i believe they were 5th or 6th then, and JVR couldnt stop scoring.
surely a guy getting 34g on the 3rd line 15mins a night is more useful to a team this year than picks.
leafs have to break the cycle of losing. dont wanna end up like buffalo or even worse, edmonton.

JVR probably walks...but its not like we gain nothing. we gain 4.25 cap space. add in bozak and komarov
and its 11+ million on guys playing in our top 6 and all we have to do is a) slide nylander to C, or B) bring in decent 3C
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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obviously at the deadline. i believe they were 5th or 6th then, and JVR couldnt stop scoring.
surely a guy getting 34g on the 3rd line 15mins a night is more useful to a team this year than picks.
leafs have to break the cycle of losing. dont wanna end up like buffalo or even worse, edmonton.

JVR probably walks...but its not like we gain nothing. we gain 4.25 cap space. add in bozak and komarov
and its 11+ million on guys playing in our top 6 and all we have to do is a) slide nylander to C, or B) bring in decent 3C

I've always really found that to be an empty argument because if we trade him for picks we still get the cap space.
 
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drewjenks

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Oct 1, 2017
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I hope not - but the chances are pretty slim

I was one of few that were pretty vocal to trade - will see

Any thoughts?

The real question is:

1) Is Plekanec having a better playoffs than Moore/Aaltonen would have?
2) Is JVR having a better playoffs than Johnsson/Leivo would have?
3) Is Komarov having a better playoffs than Martin/Grundstrom would have?

If the answer is no....than were out a 1st + 2nd + 2nd + 3rd for nothing.

If the answer is yes....than meh.
 
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Bluelines

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Nov 17, 2013
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If you look at it from just a asset management perspective its pretty dumb to lose a 35+ goal scorer for nothing to a competitor but I'm sure the reason(s) why they kept JVR are more complicated than just asset management.

Maybe management thinks that the playoff experience for a young and developing team, playing with all the teammates they played with for the entire season is worth losing JVR and Bozak for nothing.

Management has said multiple times that they want to create a safe environment for the players, I think that trading a guy like JVR might put that seed of panic in a young players head, that when its their time to have an expiring contract they might be the next one to go. Kinda puts you in a "me" mindset instead of being in a "team" mindset. I'm sure they have Dr.'s that have chimed in on the psychological effect of trading players at TDL and what is better keep or trade players. Besides the Kessel and Phaneuf dumps I cant recall a roster player being traded, I think that is not by accident, that is on purpose.
 

Tak7

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The real question is:

1) Is Plekanec having a better playoffs than Moore/Aaltonen would have?
2) Is JVR having a better playoffs than Johnsson/Leivo would have?
3) Is Komarov having a better playoffs than Martin/Grundstrom would have?

If the answer is no....than were out a 1st + 2nd + 2nd + 3rd for nothing.

If the answer is yes....than meh.

That's not the real question.

The real question, quite simply, is, "do you think this team can go on a run"?

Clearly, they thought they were good enough. They still might be, though most here know my thoughts on their chances in this Boston series.

Also - outside of Shattenkirk being traded by the Blues last year, teams in playoff positions just don't sell, especially for future assets. Hockey trade? Maybe. But you don't become a seller at the deadline when you are on pace for 100 points.
 

LeafFever

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Feb 12, 2016
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Let's be honest, the OP and everyone else who agrees changes their minds if JVR scores a big goal tonight and the Leafs win.
A top 5 NHl team should trade all it's UFAs for picks. Crazy talk.
 
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Spirit of 67

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Nov 25, 2016
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How is that an I told you so? Pretty much everyone expected JVR to walk unless we weren't in playoff contention.
Well, he said the poll was a year old. I don't remember it but if given the choice, even with Walk, I'd have gone with traded summer of 17. But my next option would be Walk. (Or, not re-signed. However you wanna look at it.)
 

Spirit of 67

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With your "hidden meaning" logic i could quite easily say "it sends a message that we think you can win even without JVR" but its not about that.

Its not about "sending a message" or implying anything to the team. Its about assessing what you've got and where you think it can get you.

We have a deep pool of wingers, some are more than NHL ready and whether the fairweather fans like it or not we are not a cup contender, simple as. So if your best chance to improve the team for the future means selling JVR today then personally id take it.

There are many reasons for and against, which is fine, thats why im not calling for Lou's job like the rest of the Mob were after two losses, he knows the temperature of the room a hell of a lot better than any of us and i have complete faith.

Whether you're being intentionally condescending or just misunderstanding my post, sitting at 7th in the league and thinking your done is exactly what breeds mediocrity, and finishing the season with a 7th place finish and no cup and planning the parade is what keeps you in the Caps position for the next 10 years.
You know we finished last 2 years ago right? Who said this tam is "finished?"

Why can't people understand that we have a good team and good teams don't sell at the deadline?
 
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Spirit of 67

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The real question is:

1) Is Plekanec having a better playoffs than Moore/Aaltonen would have?
2) Is JVR having a better playoffs than Johnsson/Leivo would have?
3) Is Komarov having a better playoffs than Martin/Grundstrom would have?

If the answer is no....than were out a 1st + 2nd + 2nd + 3rd for nothing.

If the answer is yes....than meh.
Oh boy.

1) Remove Aalto. He's never played in the NHL. No reason to believe they'd bring him up.
2) Remove Leivo. I think Babs would only play him if half the team had mono. And then it's only a "maybe."
3) I can't imagine Martin getting in unless all goes to hell (like half of them got mono) and they just needed a warm body.. He's just too slow for what we're trying to do. Grundstrom has never played in the NHL however Babs eluded to the fact that he probably made the team out of camp. So if they need a speedy forward, he may get a call.

Anyway, the real question is, what value does playoff hockey have? Clearly management gave the team as much as they felt they could afford this season to try and go on a run. They may be out this round. They may not be. I felt the playoff experience this season was gonna be great for them.

Anyway, spilled milk at this point.
We should be cheering for a win in the series. Not cheering to win an argument and being able to say "I told you so."
 
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GoonieFace

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Jun 24, 2013
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The Leafs are ripe with good prospects right now, so not gaining anything from trading JVR and Bozak is no big deal at all. There is no guarantee what they would have fetched either, and trading 2 key pieces on a 100 point team trying to make a run in the playoffs is ridiculous.
 

mammothCacti

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Feb 19, 2018
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What I would be more worried about is if the Leafs re-sign these three guys to bigger contracts, cause then that would just put us into Oilers- Lucic territory of f***ing our cap.

1 of them I can stomach, especially if we don't get a big ticket Tavares or Carlson, any more of them and I will start to lose faith instantly cause it's repeating past failures.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Let's be honest, the OP and everyone else who agrees changes their minds if JVR scores a big goal tonight and the Leafs win.
A top 5 NHl team should trade all it's UFAs for picks. Crazy talk.
Not all UFAs are created equal. Bozak/Komarov/Polak < JVR.
Marleau signed UFA. No need to trade those less than.
Those that wanted him dealt were leaning heavily in the summer. Not the trade deadline. So lets remove the trade deadline from the equation.
A team that wants to stay on top, a team that still has organizational weaknesses, should not let a 30 + goal scorer and a top 4 D (Gardiner if the situation repeats itself) walk for nothing.
Are you better or worse if you let JVR and Gardiner walk for nothing?
People realize that if JVR signs with another team, he's doing squat for us next year right?
There is your message. Either traded for assets in the summer not here, or just straight up not here.
 
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thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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If we win this series. Absolutely not, you have a great experience. Totally worth it.

If we lose this series in 7, I would say it's not terrible because it gives them game 7 type experience.

If we lose in 5 or 6, personally I don't think we gained enough experience for the price paid and will argue that we could have got the same experience if we sold early and say used the proceeds for a T4D. This team was essentially a lock for the PO for a quite some time and even the Boston Tor match was expected for a very very long time. Lou for sure could have said 3 weeks earlier JVR is available instead of not available and went from there.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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If we win this series. Absolutely not, you have a great experience. Totally worth it.

If we lose this series in 7, I would say it's not terrible because it gives them game 7 type experience.

If we lose in 5 or 6, personally I don't think we gained enough experience for the price paid and will argue that we could have got the same experience if we sold early and say used the proceeds for a T4D. This team was essentially a lock for the PO for a quite some time and even the Boston Tor match was expected for a very very long time. Lou for sure could have said 3 weeks earlier JVR is available instead of not available and went from there.
Right now when you talk about having traded JVR, people are just thinking about no JVR on this team at the moment.
We don't know what the return would have been from day 1. Someone who might have been here the entire year in a 3C/4C, Kapanen prospect level. Then at the same time you probably don't need to move an additional 2nd round pick if you have a long term solution. Someone who is a lower dollar RFA or has a couple of years on their contract. A contract that won't interfere with the upcoming signings required.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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People say the Leafs are so deep that watching these UFAs walk means nothing. If they;re so deep, and if they knew that JVR wasn't going to be in the long-term picture, wouldn't it then have been wise to move him in the summer to address the needs they did have (D and C)? Presumably, with their depth, others could have stepped in for JVR.
 
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bluumax

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Mar 7, 2008
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You know we finished last 2 years ago right? Who said this tam is "finished?"

Why can't people understand that we have a good team and good teams don't sell at the deadline?

Im well aware of where we finished only 2 years ago, hence im not personally concerned with being patient for another season or two in order to address roster weaknesses.
My opinion is that JVR wasn't crucial to our success this season and could have been replaced internally whilst providing assets we could have turned into a defenseman A POSITION OF NEED.

"Why cant people understand" that if we don't win a cup this season the decision to keep JVR was incorrect (EDIT:provided a reasonable package was offered). Simple as, deep playoff run or not. Its the same case for any team that spent assets at the deadline and doesn't win.

I want us to win this season, im quite happy we kept him.... but it doesnt change the fact that at the deadline and before the season i thought this team was still a season away from making an impact in the playoffs.
 
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bluumax

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Mar 7, 2008
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People say the Leafs are so deep that watching these UFAs walk means nothing. If they;re so deep, and if they knew that JVR wasn't going to be in the long-term picture, wouldn't it then have been wise to move him in the summer to address the needs they did have (D and C)? Presumably, with their depth, others could have stepped in for JVR.

If the deals not there, the deals not there.

Whilst i am of the opinion that JVR could have netted us some important assets at the deadline, i wouldnt take a bag of pucks and shitty prospect for him.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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If the deals not there, the deals not there.

Whilst i am of the opinion that JVR could have netted us some important assets at the deadline, i wouldnt take a bag of pucks and ****ty prospect for him.

Nope and the deadline should be out of the equation. It was too late then.
But as you touched on, the decision to keep him was a gamble that they're good enough. Like the Bruins trading for Nash - it was based on the fact that they thought they're good enough to compete. If they don't compete, the gamble failed and it becomes a bad move.
 

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