The decision to keep the expiring contracts - is it going to backfire

[Raging Bull]

What more is there to talk about in regards to this?

 

[biotk]

They sold off when the team wanted to compete. You think players care about the difference?

Who and when? I am saying that what you said never happened.

 

[moon111]

Value is usually based on supply and demand. Do you think the main piece in the trade for Kessel would be a guy who has less assists in his career then Matt Martin has in a single game?
Kessel had limited value because of limited parties you could negotiate with. JVR and Bozak both have limited no-trade clauses. Doesn't matter if Vegas offered you 10 1st round draft
picks. If those two didn't want to go to Vegas, they weren't going. And with no contract to tie them up, the only possible destination for them would be a playoff contender. Best compensation
you could hope for would be a non-impact 1st round pick.
The next task for the Leafs is, not being a team that beats non-playoff teams, but can win against teams like Boston in the playoffs. To do so, you need to enforce the need to play hard, play defensive, to cover your man, etc. Fans might love Nylander, but the fact is, when he came in, he was none of that. So why would the Leafs trade one of their best players in these regards? There's been a lot of players
come and go, some made it into the Hockey Hall of Fame even. But without their nose to the grindstone, commitment to covering their player and defense like Komarov, never lead their team to a Championship. The guy might lack offense, but he's the shining example of what you want from all players without the puck. It's Komarov who was mentoring Kadri in establishing his defensive
game. It was Komarov that yelled at Kadri when he made defensive mistakes. Komarov has been instrumental into trying to turn Kadri into someone like NJ's John Madden who was an offensive player
that became a Frank J. Selke Trophy winner.
I have a feeling JVR could of been peeled away, but I don't think that the Leafs were looking at trading them at all. At the best you take low value assets in return.

 

[Legion34]

Who and when? I am saying that what you said never happened.

Read the book. He goes through all the players they traded. It’s worth a read either way

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've been pretty firm in my belief, since about late January, that this team wasn't making it out of the first round.

It's one thing to believe something, it's another to state it as if it's fact and ridicule people who have a different opinion.

BTW, you have made several posts where you claimed that I have posted many times (6 times in just one thread you said) that the Leafs were favoured to beat Boston and that I attacked people who said Boston is favoured. I never said any such thing, I have said all along that Boston is favoured to win and have challenged you to find even one of my posts where I said what you claim.

How's your search going? When can we expect to see your evidence, just one post will do, shouldn't be too hard to do.

An apology would do just fine too. Ball's in your court my friend.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I was a strong sell proponent for JVR only, His value really was at an all time high and personally i only see this season as a kind of "stepping stone" in terms of where we are going and where we need to be to win.

This team isn't a cup contender right now, they're a playoff team, but not a contender. We have major areas of weakness that need to be addressed and ignoring the fact that keeping JVR was and is unlikely to yield a cup this season and could have been used to obtain a significant return was a mistake.



And thats how mediocrity is born. Im super proud of what this team has achieved, but thats still only 6th in the league. We've won nothing and if we settle for nothing now, we settle for nothing later.

Im not unhappy with the management group, they got us this far and i have faith in them, but my opinion is that we should have taken the assets for JVR even if it meant a 1st round exit. You build for the future.

Selling JVR at the TDL because the team was too scared to take a swing in the playoffs and lose is loser mentality. They want to keep the loser mentality out of the room.

 

[Tak7]

Selling JVR at the TDL because the team was too scared to take a swing in the playoffs and lose is loser mentality. They want to keep the loser mentality out of the room.

Depends what the return is.

If JvR for futures (draft picks / prospects) is the move, then absolutely, it's a loser mentality move.

But if you could have flipped JvR for a Dman, for example, then I don't think that would have been bad (fully acknowleding that not a single deadline day deal involving a Dman made me go "OH the Leafs should have been in on that by moving JvR").

There's ways you can frame a trade to not make it look like you are waiving the white flag.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Depends what the return is.

If JvR for futures (draft picks / prospects) is the move, then absolutely, it's a loser mentality move.

But if you could have flipped JvR for a Dman, for example, then I don't think that would have been bad (fully acknowleding that not a single deadline day deal involving a Dman made me go "OH the Leafs should have been in on that by moving JvR").

There's ways you can frame a trade to not make it look like you are waiving the white flag.

The type of D man you get in return for that is going to be underwhelming. We made the right move.

 

[Legion34]

Depends what the return is.

If JvR for futures (draft picks / prospects) is the move, then absolutely, it's a loser mentality move.

But if you could have flipped JvR for a Dman, for example, then I don't think that would have been bad (fully acknowleding that not a single deadline day deal involving a Dman made me go "OH the Leafs should have been in on that by moving JvR").

There's ways you can frame a trade to not make it look like you are waiving the white flag.

I don’t think there was yhat option. There were rumours we were trying to get a second first and it didn’t materialze. We have no idea what was tried with jvr.

 

[Tak7]

The type of D man you get in return for that is going to be underwhelming. We made the right move.

I agree.

With that being said, I was onboard with moving JvR earlier - admittedly I am biased against him, and am not a big fan of his.

But once you decided to keep him in the off-season, there was no other decision to be made - Marleau in, JvR out in the off-season

 

[Morgs]

I argued night and day about trading JVR. Love the guy and still think he could be a factor, but he was more valuable in a trade than he was for this run.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I agree.

With that being said, I was onboard with moving JvR earlier - admittedly I am biased against him, and am not a big fan of his.

But once you decided to keep him in the off-season, there was no other decision to be made - Marleau in, JvR out in the off-season

Concur.
Hard to know what they did about shopping him. But I feel like if they could've upgraded the D with him, they would have.
I don't see the point in trading him for another bottom pair guy (or in Hamonic's case, a guy who played like one). If that's all they could get.

 

[Stand Witness]

Whether people want to admit it or not, team morale, confidence and trust is a huge thing for a team. Not just for performing well but for deciding on whether to stay with the team.

Case in point:

Brayden Schenn @ this years trade deadline.

https://www.tsn.ca/schenn-blues-went-the-other-way-at-deadline-1.1012410

“Really one or two points out and move a guy that does a lot for us,”

“Maybe it will fire guys up, give guys more opportunity to do more and that’s one way you can look at it,” Schenn said. “Teams that are one or two out are kind of loading up right now and we’re one or two out and we kind of... went the other way"

Managing your players has multiple layers involved. It never really made sense to sell off our players. How does Gardiner feel going into his UFA season next year if the Leafs are showing they won't try and compete?

The mistake was buying. That is clear now. But as much as I would have liked to see JVR/Bozak/Komarov go at the deadline, it would have never happened. JVR should have been moved after Marleau was brought in.

 

[LeafFever]

Teams that are top 5 at the trade deadline do not trade their UFAs. Stop pretending we are like the Habs this year.
What a terrible message to send to the team.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

While I get that the point is that such a move could disrupt the room, I'd like to point out that players are not necessarily the best gauge of what the best move is for the franchise.

If we had moved them out, it should have been done in the summer though.

I would have moved JVR 2 summers ago. That would have provided the best return. If JVR was really that important to our playoff success, we weren't built correctly and were vulnerable anyhow. I thought that we had a long range plan which was to rebuild?

 

[LeafFever]

Selling JVR at the TDL because the team was too scared to take a swing in the playoffs and lose is loser mentality. They want to keep the loser mentality out of the room.

This. It's a terrible direction and message for the organization> I am shocked so many wanted that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Selling JVR at the TDL because the team was too scared to take a swing in the playoffs and lose is loser mentality. They want to keep the loser mentality out of the room.

Whether people want to admit it or not, team morale, confidence and trust is a huge thing for a team. Not just for performing well but for deciding on whether to stay with the team.

Case in point:

Brayden Schenn @ this years trade deadline.

https://www.tsn.ca/schenn-blues-went-the-other-way-at-deadline-1.1012410

Managing your players has multiple layers involved. It never really made sense to sell off our players. How does Gardiner feel going into his UFA season next year if the Leafs are showing they won't try and compete?

The mistake was buying. That is clear now. But as much as I would have liked to see JVR/Bozak/Komarov go at the deadline, it would have never happened. JVR should have been moved after Marleau was brought in.

Teams that are top 5 at the trade deadline do not trade their UFAs. Stop pretending we are like the Habs this year.
What a terrible message to send to the team.

You guys are all missing the point. The TDL wasn't the only time we could have made trades, this could have been done in July, August, September ...

 

[nuck]

Kind of a pointless question right now. All we need to do is wait a couple of days. I am not a fan of own rentals unless your club is a favorite. To beat Boston, Tampa, and then Pittsburgh, and then maybe Nashville is a monstrous mountain to climb, especially when we haven't seen the all-world Matthews in months. There are a bunch of win-now lineups in addition to young teams that have managed a better record, and the Leafs didn't get home ice advantage against a weaker club to start them off.

The Shanny-Lou side of it is that they want a shot every year their window is open, and the window is open now. I think it was clearly a year early and they didn't. They may have struggled greatly with the choice, we will never know. Nobody could have predicted an .820 sv% and 9 points in 2 games for Pastrnak but I don't imagine it could have been any worse without JVR, Boz and Koma.

Imagine the roasting the club gets though, if they dealt the FAs and brought this popgun offense to swept by the Bs. Its a no win situation when your best players don't bring their A game.

 

[Stand Witness]

You guys are all missing the point. The TDL wasn't the only time we could have made trades, this could have been done in July, August, September ...

You missed my next line lol. Bozak and to a lessor extend Komarov made sense to hold onto at the beginning of the year imo. It was clear that we lacked center depth and Komarov was coming into the season with a much bigger expected role.

 

[Al14]

There is still a SMALL CHANCE that the rights to JvR might be traded at the draft. It is possible that a team wanting to sign him, MIGHT be interested in being able to sign him over 8 years instead of 7!

Also, there MIGHT be a team interested in a sign and trade scenario.

Failing the above, we gain cap space when both JvR and Bozak depart for no return.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You missed my next line lol. Bozak and to a lessor extend Komarov made sense to hold onto at the beginning of the year imo. It was clear that we lacked center depth and Komarov was coming into the season with a much bigger expected role.

Oopsie. My mistake, sorry about that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is still a SMALL CHANCE that the rights to JvR might be traded at the draft. It is possible that a team wanting to sign him MIGHT be interested in being able to sign him over 8 years instead of 7!

Also, there MIGHT be a team interested in a sign and trade scenario.

Failing the above, we gain cap space when both JvR and Bozak depart for no return.

Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa. This I would love to see. A team that's not happy with signing JVR for 7 years, oh no that's not enough, they're willing to give up something so they can have the privilege of signing him for 8 years!!

 

[Spirit of 67]

You guys are all missing the point. The TDL wasn't the only time we could have made trades, this could have been done in July, August, September ...

But it wasn't. Whether they tried and didn't get what they'd hoped for, we'll never know.

 

[Al14]

Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa. This I would love to see. A team that's not happy with signing JVR for 7 years, oh no that's not enough, they're willing to give up something so they can have the privilege of signing him for 8 years!!

I said SMALL CHANCE for a reason!

The extra year might make it possible for said team to fit him under the salary cap!

 

[Legion34]

You guys are all missing the point. The TDL wasn't the only time we could have made trades, this could have been done in July, August, September ...

My understanding is they tried to deal for d but we will never know. In September Boston was a joke and Tampa had missed the playoffs. We were in a weak division. Not a juggernaut.

Also. Who were we trading them too? Would they be making a mistake!