The Daily Bozak Thread

[The Apologist]

He is currently also 191st in SOG for forwards and 81st in scoring. With all the minutes he burns it's seems unlikely they will need a stud to match his output. The numbers don't lie. He is watching his wingers create, rather than participating in the attack. His lack of shooting means no deflections or rebounds, and any D man covering him knows he is more likely to hang onto the puck rather than get a shot away. His lack of assists even with sniping line mates shows he is not efficient at using his wingers.

Tyler is a good athlete who skates well, hits a bit, and does very well on face-offs but he is choking that top line. 191st in shots man! Doesn't that say all that needs to be said? What is the upside of a player that won't shoot? How many successful top line forwards aren't in the top 150 in SOG? He is a third line player used out of position because of lack of other options.

They seem committed to keeping him, but not sure if they are committed to keeping him with Kessel. I hope they are at least looking.

You realize 81st in scoring is top 10% in the NHL right?

 

[Faltorvo]

You realize 81st in scoring is top 10% in the NHL right?

Yay way to outscore the 200 players at the bottom of the list, do those 200 players even have a combined TOI as Boz?

 

[The Apologist]

Yay way to outscore the 200 players at the bottom of the list, do those 200 players even have a combined TOI as Boz?

Still got nothing eh?
No matter how you twist it, he's much more than average.

 

[diceman934]

Lets look at this from a different point of view:

Grabo at 5.5 or Bozak at 3.5 to 4.0.

For me that decision is easy I would take Bozak and he can play in any situation.....Grabo can not. This is really what I think the decsion to sign Bozak comes down to. We may keep Grabo one more year in we resign Bozak, but he will be moved.

 

[The Apologist]

Lets look at this from a different point of view:

Grabo at 5.5 or Bozak at 3.5 to 4.0.

For me that decision is easy I would take Bozak and he can play in any situation.....Grabo can not. This is really what I think the decsion to sign Bozak comes down to. We may keep Grabo one more year in we resign Bozak, but he will be moved.

I take Bozak every time. Please God not at anything higher than 4.5.

 

[slozo]

People wanted Brad Richards, remember back then? Brad Richards was going to come to Toronto, be Kessel's elite centreman, and together they'd combine for 175 pts.

Richards then went to the Rangers, to play with Gaborik. Now Gaborik's gone, and there is Richards on the second line . . .

TODAY
Tyler Bozak: 11g, 14a, 25 pts (39 games)

Brad Richards: 6g, 17a, 23 pts (37 games)
The other Eastern Conference playoff-bound top line centres . . .
Tavares: 24g, 18a, 42 pts (40 gp)
Kyle Turris: 8g, 16a, 24 pts (39 gp)
Bergeron: 10g, 21a, 31 pts (35 gp)
Plekanec: 13g, 15a, 28 pts (38 gp)
Backstrom: 6g, 36a, 42 pts (40 gp)
Crosby: 15g, 41a, 56 pts (36 gp)

Crosby was the runaway MVP before getting hurt; Tavares was an early candidate for same; and Backstrom is back to being an elite set-up man for the current MVP candidate and leading goal scorer, Ovechkin. Bozak's pure production is very compareable to Richards, Turris and Plekanec, and certainly not out of Bergeron's league IN THAT CATEGORY. From a non-production standpoint . . . Crosby, Tavares, Bergeron are elite; Bozak is compareable to the rest.

I am satisfied with Bozak . . . really, not that displeased. Sure, we could get an improvement if we had a magic wand to do a magic deal . . . but until that happens, this is not a glaring weakness for us at all.

 

[Grandrift145]

I love you Bozak

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Bozak is currently 10th in average mins per game for Centers, if he is allowed to walk, there will be a gaping hole at Center. Think before you act folks.

Colborne, Mcclement, or Grabo cannot make up those mins.

The (potentially) funny thing is that they can, actually. Grabo and Kadri can pick up more minutes ES/PP, and McClement, Colborne, or a new acquisition for the PK can pick up what's left.

Did anyone also notice Bozak's career high shooting % and constantly low shot totals? He's not going to shoot 19% forever, and it's also likely that he's just generally not going to shoot enough for a top six forward.

 

[The Apologist]

People wanted Brad Richards, remember back then? Brad Richards was going to come to Toronto, be Kessel's elite centreman, and together they'd combine for 175 pts.

Richards then went to the Rangers, to play with Gaborik. Now Gaborik's gone, and there is Richards on the second line . . .

TODAY
Tyler Bozak: 11g, 14a, 25 pts (39 games)

Brad Richards: 6g, 17a, 23 pts (37 games)
The other Eastern Conference playoff-bound top line centres . . .
Tavares: 24g, 18a, 42 pts (40 gp)
Kyle Turris: 8g, 16a, 24 pts (39 gp)
Bergeron: 10g, 21a, 31 pts (35 gp)
Plekanec: 13g, 15a, 28 pts (38 gp)
Backstrom: 6g, 36a, 42 pts (40 gp)
Crosby: 15g, 41a, 56 pts (36 gp)

Crosby was the runaway MVP before getting hurt; Tavares was an early candidate for same; and Backstrom is back to being an elite set-up man for the current MVP candidate and leading goal scorer, Ovechkin. Bozak's pure production is very compareable to Richards, Turris and Plekanec, and certainly not out of Bergeron's league IN THAT CATEGORY. From a non-production standpoint . . . Crosby, Tavares, Bergeron are elite; Bozak is compareable to the rest.

I am satisfied with Bozak . . . really, not that displeased. Sure, we could get an improvement if we had a magic wand to do a magic deal . . . but until that happens, this is not a glaring weakness for us at all.

Very well put. Combine that with the fact that we have two lines featuring ppg players and were fine. Contrary to popular belief nobody has an all star at every position.

 

[nuck]

You realize 81st in scoring is top 10% in the NHL right?

Only 459 forwards managed a point so if you count the Frazer Mclarens of the league he does squeak into the top 20% but that isn't the point. Looking at centers only he is 10th in TOI but 34th in points and that playing with the clubs top scoring wingers. Counting how far he is from the bottom using part time players and goons is just games. We should be looking at the top 60 centers and where he is in that group.

They are 7th overall and the player on their top line with the most TOI should not be a 50 point guy. If he was doing this in 16 minutes TOI between Mac and Kulemin that is adequate scoring but he isn't in that spot. The center is supposed to drive the offense, not have his wingers make plays to each other. I am coming across like a Bozak hater and I'm not. He is just doesn't have the offense for that role. Cut back his ice time 5 minutes, tell him to add 5 pounds and ratchet up the hitting a little bit and he could be really good, but as a bottom 6 guy.

 

[The Apologist]

Only 459 forwards managed a point so if you count the Frazer Mclarens of the league he does squeak into the top 20% but that isn't the point. Looking at centers only he is 10th in TOI but 34th in points and that playing with the clubs top scoring wingers. Counting how far he is from the bottom using part time players and goons is just games. We should be looking at the top 60 centers and where he is in that group.

They are 7th overall and the player on their top line with the most TOI should not be a 50 point guy. If he was doing this in 16 minutes TOI between Mac and Kulemin that is adequate scoring but he isn't in that spot. The center is supposed to drive the offense, not have his wingers make plays to each other. I am coming across like a Bozak hater and I'm not. He is just doesn't have the offense for that role. Cut back his ice time 5 minutes, tell him to add 5 pounds and ratchet up the hitting a little bit and he could be really good, but as a bottom 6 guy.

What does it matter how far he is from the bottom? The fact is, he is 81st in the NHL in points, and as you said, 32nd among centers. This means he is a slightly below average TOP LINE Center offensively in the NHL, higher end 2c. Statistically he is a Top 3 forward, at the very minimum top 6.

As for your definition if what a Center 'should' be, apparently our coach disagrees with you, as do I. Who cares who's driving them as long as someone is? Again, no team has all stars at every position. Tyler Bozak is in the top 10% of all scorers in the NHL. How many other third liners are doing that?

Other than your opinion, what else do you have that proves that a guy that's scoring with the top of the NHL belongs on the third line?

He's already a very good player, on the top line of our team. You should probably get used to him being there

 

[nuck]

People wanted Brad Richards, remember back then? Brad Richards was going to come to Toronto, be Kessel's elite centreman, and together they'd combine for 175 pts.

Richards then went to the Rangers, to play with Gaborik. Now Gaborik's gone, and there is Richards on the second line . . .

TODAY
Tyler Bozak: 11g, 14a, 25 pts (39 games)

Brad Richards: 6g, 17a, 23 pts (37 games)
The other Eastern Conference playoff-bound top line centres . . .
Tavares: 24g, 18a, 42 pts (40 gp)
Kyle Turris: 8g, 16a, 24 pts (39 gp)
Bergeron: 10g, 21a, 31 pts (35 gp)
Plekanec: 13g, 15a, 28 pts (38 gp)
Backstrom: 6g, 36a, 42 pts (40 gp)
Crosby: 15g, 41a, 56 pts (36 gp)

Crosby was the runaway MVP before getting hurt; Tavares was an early candidate for same; and
Backstrom is back to being an elite set-up man for the current MVP candidate and leading goal scorer, Ovechkin. Bozak's pure production is very compareable to Richards, Turris and Plekanec, and certainly not out of Bergeron's league IN THAT CATEGORY. From a non-production standpoint . . . Crosby, Tavares, Bergeron are elite; Bozak is compareable to the rest.

I am satisfied with Bozak . . . really, not that displeased. Sure, we could get an improvement if we had a magic wand to do a magic deal . . . but until that happens, this is not a glaring weakness for us at all.

Bostons #3 guy is actually better than Boz. Maybe that has something to do with Kessel being so ineffective against them. Turris is just there to hold Spezza's skate, he isn't their number 1. Montreal DID use a magic wand to get top 5 with those forwards

They are committed now so no point talking solutions until the off season. Maybe, as you say, they don't think they need a solution and will leave TB in the role until someone better falls in their lap.

 

[nuck]

What does it matter how far he is from the bottom? The fact is, he is 81st in the NHL in points, and as you said, 32nd among centers. This means he is a slightly below average TOP LINE Center offensively in the NHL, higher end 2c. Statistically he is a Top 3 forward, at the very minimum top 6.

As for your definition if what a Center 'should' be, apparently our coach disagrees with you, as do I. Who cares who's driving them as long as someone is? Again, no team has all stars at every position. Tyler Bozak is in the top 10% of all scorers in the NHL. How many other third liners are doing that?

Other than your opinion, what else do you have that proves that a guy that's scoring with the top of the NHL belongs on the third line?

He's already a very good player, on the top line of our team. You should probably get used to him being there

If you can't see the difference between TB and an actual top three player then I am not sure I can convince you.

By your standard, anyone who can generate any offense at all is adequate, regardless of the amount of ice time and the quality/performance gap with the wingers. 50 points is weak output for the spot, that's proof in itself, unless the wingers are performing no better It is the reverse of having a game breaker on your top line, because it makes it easier to shut a line down if one player is already not scoring as well.

Look at it this way. If you put Kessel with a center who generates more ppg, then so will he. If you stuck him with say a 40pt guy his scoring will probably go down. If you can only manage 50 pts playing with ppg wingers, it is unlikely you are elevating their game. So find a 60 pt guy who shoots
the puck a bit and can use his wingers. Any center who is already doing that without point a game wingers should

do even better beside Kessel. Being between Kessel and Lupul last season is as good an environment as any center can hope for generating points, if they actually an offensive player. Two assists per goal, so all you need to do is be the second last guy to touch the puck and you have 70 assists. You don't even have to be a great play maker to generate assists if both wingers are scorers, you just have to handle the puck. Look at Zajac in Jersey, or the various guys that have played beside Iggy in Calgary, or Bertuzzis center in Vancouver. The shooting wingers make
their centers point producers until the winger is taken off their line. The centers, who all outperformed Tyler, were outer as not top line players as soon as they weren't matched with true scorers.

If all you see Bozak's final point total and ignore the amount of ice time it takes to produce those points, and if you assume no benefits to Boz playing with snipers, or more importantly no detriment to the wingers playing with a weak playmaker, then he is a perfect #1 guy for the club. If you think Kessel would benefit from playing with an excellent passer, then they should be trying to get him one.

 

[The Apologist]

If you can't see the difference between TB and an actual top three player then I am not sure I can convince you.

By your standard, anyone who can generate any offense at all is adequate, regardless of the amount of ice time and the quality/performance gap with the wingers. 50 points is weak output for the spot, that's proof in itself, unless the wingers are performing no better It is the reverse of having a game breaker on your top line, because it makes it easier to shut a line down if one player is already not scoring as well.

Look at it this way. If you put Kessel with a center who generates more ppg, then so will he. If you stuck him with say a 40pt guy his scoring will probably go down. If you can only manage 50 pts playing with ppg wingers, it is unlikely you are elevating their game. So find a 60 pt guy who shoots
the puck a bit and can use his wingers. Any center who is already doing that without point a game wingers should

do even better beside Kessel. Being between Kessel and Lupul last season is as good an environment as any center can hope for generating points, if they actually an offensive player. Two assists per goal, so all you need to do is be the second last guy to touch the puck and you have 70 assists. You don't even have to be a great play maker to generate assists if both wingers are scorers, you just have to handle the puck. Look at Zajac in Jersey, or the various guys that have played beside Iggy in Calgary, or Bertuzzis center in Vancouver. The shooting wingers make
their centers point producers until the winger is taken off their line. The centers, who all outperformed Tyler, were outer as not top line players as soon as they weren't matched with true scorers.

If all you see Bozak's final point total and ignore the amount of ice time it takes to produce those points, and if you assume no benefits to Boz playing with snipers, or more importantly no detriment to the wingers playing with a weak playmaker, then he is a perfect #1 guy for the club. If you think Kessel would benefit from playing with an excellent passer, then they should be trying to get him one.

50 points last year would have put him around 96th in points. Assuming zero defensemen are in that top 95 (unlikely) he is still a first line point producer. Sounds like you might have some unrealistic expectations there.

As for the 'detriment', Kessel is a ppg player. He finished 6th in pts last year and looks like he could break top ten again this year. Man is he suffering.

So again, in reality, Tyler Bozak is not only a top 6 producer, but a top line producer. There are not too many top lines in hockey with three 70-80 point guys.

He also excels at faceoffs, is top ten in SH goals, and damnit, our coach loves him.

If you can't see how important he is to this team, not sure what to tell you.

 

[Faltorvo]

Only 459 forwards managed a point so if you count the Frazer Mclarens of the league he does squeak into the top 20% but that isn't the point. Looking at centers only he is 10th in TOI but 34th in points and that playing with the clubs top scoring wingers. Counting how far he is from the bottom using part time players and goons is just games. We should be looking at the top 60 centers and where he is in that group.

They are 7th overall and the player on their top line with the most TOI should not be a 50 point guy. If he was doing this in 16 minutes TOI between Mac and Kulemin that is adequate scoring but he isn't in that spot. The center is supposed to drive the offense, not have his wingers make plays to each other. I am coming across like a Bozak hater and I'm not. He is just doesn't have the offense for that role. Cut back his ice time 5 minutes, tell him to add 5 pounds and ratchet up the hitting a little bit and he could be really good, but as a bottom 6 guy.

But it's too late nuck, don't you see this is the crux of the issue, he won't be signing for bottom 6 money.

This is his Waterloo, his get rich or die trying moment.

 

[diceman934]

But it's too late nuck, don't you see this is the crux of the issue, he won't be signing for bottom 6 money.

This is his Waterloo, his get rich or die trying moment.

No GM in the league will sign him for money that a top line center will get....no one. He wants to stay in Toronto as well he should getting all the minutes he is getting. A deal will be made is my opinion. I maybe off on the term but not off on the cap hit. 3.5 to 4 million a year. The shorter the term the more money.

2 years at 8 million
3 years at 11.5 million
4 years at 14.9 million
5 years at 18 million

 

[Faltorvo]

No GM in the league will sign him for money that a top line center will get....no one. He wants to stay in Toronto as well he should getting all the minutes he is getting. A deal will be made is my opinion. I maybe off on the term but not off on the cap hit. 3.5 to 4 million a year. The shorter the term the more money.

2 years at 8 million
3 years at 11.5 million
4 years at 14.9 million
5 years at 18 million

Top line centers, true centers are pulling in cap hits of 6 to 8.5m per, mate.

It's these wannabe tweeners that will kill ya in the long run, the 5m cappers.

5 years at 15m and i think about it.

 

[The Apologist]

Top line centers, true centers are pulling in cap hits of 6 to 8.5m per, mate.

It's these wannabe tweeners that will kill ya in the long run, the 5m cappers.

5 years at 15m and i think about it.

Got it, so there are approximately 10 number one centers in the NHL, including Vinny Lecavalier, Paul Stastny and Patty Marleau.

Anyway, I give. You're probably right. Despite stats, the coaching staffs (two of them) and all reasonable logic, Tyler Bozak is an average forward at best. There are only 10 good players at every position, the rest are very average.

I have a feeling you are in for a lot of very disappointing years.

For those who understand that NO TEAM in the NHL is made up of solely top ten players, we have a keeper here.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Bozak is fine and should be re-signed. I don't think there is much centre depth upcoming in the UFA market. We can't afford to lose him. Plus he improves every year. You can't discount that. He may not have reached his peak yet.