The Curious Case of Warren Skorodenski

[Doctor No]

I started defending Murray Bannerman in a thread on the History forum, and ended up with something that I think stands better on its own. Bannerman was actually significantly above average between 1982-83 and 1984-85:

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/bannerman.html

One thing to note - some of you know that I've been playing with goaltender strengths of schedule lately; Murray Bannerman in 1984-85 had one of the easiest strengths of schedule I've ever seen by a goaltender - with an average opponent 0.41 goals below average.

Part of that is that their division was pretty atrocious:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/nhl19271985.html

However, Warren Skorodenski played 27 games that year with an average opponent 0.19 goals above average (so the difference in Bannerman's and Skorodenski's opponents was about 0.6 goals):

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/skorodenski.html

That's the largest difference between a team's top two goaltenders that I've come across (so far). Fifteen of Skorodenski's appearances were on the road, which is (obviously) more than half but not significantly so.

Even with that disparity, Skorodenski's statistics were better than Bannerman's (out-save percentaged, 90.4% to 88.3%, two shutouts to Bannerman's zero, and out-GAAed, 3.22 to 3.83).

And yet, that was Skorodenski's swan song in the NHL - he was a 24-year-old putting up those numbers against objectively good competition, and yet he only played in seven regular season games after that year. It's one of those things that just doesn't really make sense to me.

Click to read more...

 

[Doctor No]

Even if you don't trust my strength of schedule estimates (which are admittedly a bit of a black box), the opponent save percentages for 1984-85 tell a similar story.

Bannerman's average opponent had a (non-ENG) shooting percentage of 11.9% (so Bannerman would be expected to have a save percentage of 0.881). His actual save percentage was 0.883.

Skorodenski's average opponent had a (non-ENG) shooting percentage of 12.9% (so Skorodenski would be expected to have a save percentage of 0.871). His actual save percentage was 0.904.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He also had a cool mask.

I tried to see if there was some sort of off ice or injury issue going on, but there's no mention.

Sounds like, for whatever reason, he was seen as a really good backup and not a starter?

 

[Doctor No]

Gotta love his skull mask - as a goaltender, I love the new (Dave) Dryden-style mask/cage combos (they're so much safer), but from an artwork perspective, you couldn't beat the Plante style.

I couldn't find an injury, either - and I know that GMs didn't use save percentage back then, but his traditional stats were great, and he was just 24 years old.

All I know is that Skorodenski played one game in 1985-86 - on October 12 - and three days later, the Black Hawks picked up Bob Sauve (who was great in Chicago, so you can't really fault them for that). I just don't understand what happened to Warren.

 

[Doctor No]

He wasn't particularly good in the 1985 playoffs, but (1) the sample size is tiny, and (2) he was coming in cold for both games.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's not like age was a concern as a late bloomer or anything. He was in his mid 20s.

Edit: All I can see is that his AHL numbers aren't very good, so maybe once he was down there he didn't get much attention...but I don't know how he compares to his peers with the numbers I'm seeing.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

I started defending Murray Bannerman in a thread on the History forum, and ended up with something that I think stands better on its own. Bannerman was actually significantly above average between 1982-83 and 1984-85:

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/bannerman.html

One thing to note - some of you know that I've been playing with goaltender strengths of schedule lately; Murray Bannerman in 1984-85 had one of the easiest strengths of schedule I've ever seen by a goaltender - with an average opponent 0.41 goals below average.

Part of that is that their division was pretty atrocious:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/nhl19271985.html

However, Warren Skorodenski played 27 games that year with an average opponent 0.19 goals above average (so the difference in Bannerman's and Skorodenski's opponents was about 0.6 goals):

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/skorodenski.html

That's the largest difference between a team's top two goaltenders that I've come across (so far). Fifteen of Skorodenski's appearances were on the road, which is (obviously) more than half but not significantly so.

Even with that disparity, Skorodenski's statistics were better than Bannerman's (out-save percentaged, 90.4% to 88.3%, two shutouts to Bannerman's zero, and out-GAAed, 3.22 to 3.83).

And yet, that was Skorodenski's swan song in the NHL - he was a 24-year-old putting up those numbers against objectively good competition, and yet he only played in seven regular season games after that year. It's one of those things that just doesn't really make sense to me.

Aww shucks, thanks guy.

 

[Doctor No]

Well played.

I've always been a Bannerman fan for some reason - he just "looked" like a goaltender.

 

[Canadiens1958]

AHL Suspension

November 20, 1983, playing for Sherbrooke in the AHL, Warren Skorodenski was suspended 20 games for assaulting a referee:

http://scottywazz.blogspot.ca/2011/02/absurd-goalie-monday-warren-skorodenski.html

 

[Doctor No]

Yep - I've got that on my page above. Definitely shows that he has a temper, but that was well before the 1984-85 season where he (in my opinion) shone.

Speaking of the 1983-84 AHL season, it's weirdly difficult to get goaltender statistics for that season.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Issues

Yep - I've got that on my page above. Definitely shows that he has a temper, but that was well before the 1984-85 season where he (in my opinion) shone.

Speaking of the 1983-84 AHL season, it's weirdly difficult to get goaltender statistics for that season.

Temper, part of a player's discipline make-up or profile. Tends to negate performance.

Which 1983-84 AHL goalie stats?

 

[Doctor No]

I don't know if one incident is indicative of a temper - Skorodenski's overall penalty minute totals don't stand out as extraordinary. And I don't necessarily think that a temper correlates with negative performance (although it would need to be studied rigorously).

As for 1983-84 AHL stats, not all teams have goaltender stats - for instance, Ralph doesn't have Sherbrooke goaltender stats:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0001891984.html

Which suggests that neither Ralph nor I can find them, and if that's the case, then they're probably hard to find. (Between the two of us, I'd put my money on Ralph finding them first).

 

[Doctor No]

For what it's worth, I just pulled all differences in strength of schedule, between 1984-85 and 2012-13, for goaltenders with at least 25 games played apiece:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=73973071

Bannerman and Skorodenski top the list by a significant margin.

 

[Beerfish]

Bannerman was pretty good until he came up against the Oilers in the playoffs in 84-85. Then.....ouch

40 goals against in 6 games, .812 sv %

 

[Doctor No]

Bannerman was pretty good until he came up against the Oilers in the playoffs in 84-85. Then.....ouch

40 goals against in 6 games, .812 sv %

I imagine that a lot of early-1980s goaltenders are in that club somewhere.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

This was really a good read though. I can see where you're coming from though the sample size isn't as large.

 

[Doctor No]

Thanks! Agreed about the sample size in 1984-85, but I'm just surprised that Skorodenski didn't get a look.

Granted, there *was* a logjam in the Chicago net at the start of 1985-86, but the Black Hawks deliberately caused that by acquiring Sauve on October 15. Three days earlier, Skorodenski gave up six goals (on 45 shots) in a Montreal road game, so admittedly he probably wasn't sharp yet, but that was one game.

So let's step ahead a few days - now the Black Hawks have Bannerman, Skorodenski, and Sauve on the roster. I'm surprised that no other NHL team offered a flyer on the youngster with a decent (although small) resume.