The Coyotes situation and how it relates to the Panthers

Brokin

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Nov 30, 2014
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What does this have to do with anything? The Canadiens aren't owned by someone who heads a separatist political party, which is one of the main roadblocks preventing Paladeau from owning a team. The NHL BOG are a good 'ol boys club and they have the final say on who they want in their inner circle or not (ie Jim Balsallie)
You talk like you are Canadian. Just a thought, if someday Quebec is allowed to secede, do you think the Molson's will sell the team to an ethnic French Speaking ownership group and they will call it the Montreal Quebekee's? I always thought Jim wanted a club in Hamilton and there was no way that would ever happen because of the proximity to Toronto and Buffalo. So you believe it's because they just don't like Jim and wouldn't allow him to be an owner in any city?

No, they won't. It doesn't matter how many people he has to be "buffers" The NHL ain't gonna want to deal with that guy, period. Plus, the league could have allowed him into the fold when the Panthers were for sale, instead Bettman facilitated the sale to Viola.
What does that have to do with anything? The team was staying in South Florida at that time, period. So there was never a chance Bettman or the BOG would facilitate the sale to anyone who wanted to move the franchise then or in the future.

As far as dealing with Quebecor, the NHL is already dealing with them in a big way as part of the Rogers Communications coup of broadcasting NHL games for the next 12 years. Quebecor is paying $125M per year (which is close to 25% of the total deal with the NHL) to broadcast those games in French throughout Canada, and Bettman and the BOG really don't give a crap whether Paladeau sits on the board. As they say, $$$ talks and BS walks. As far as ownership of the franchise by Quebecor, that agreement will probably include a caveat that Pierre Karl Paladeau will not be able to represent Quebecor at any NHL ownership meetings.
 
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jol

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@sufferingcatsfan this was your post on the business board:


third, they went to the County because it makes sense to, obviously you want losses subsidized, as for "a de facto early termination right", I have heard none of this mentioned anywhere, I would love a source for this.
This means if county grants SSE's wish, i.e. they wouldn't have to pay annual lease (about $4 million), there wouldn't be any lease termination fee anymore. Now lease termination fee is amount of remaining payments, $4 million times whatever number of years left in lease.

JOL
 

I am not exposed

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Mar 16, 2014
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So if Quebec becomes a separate country in the next 10 years, is the NHL going throw Montreal out of the league? I don't buy that reasoning at all.

Quebecor will be the eventual owner of the new franchise if they are granted one. While the Paladeau family owns most of the company, they have elected Brian Mulroney as the Chairman of the Board to be the buffer of common sense in business dealings. While Pierre is still on the board, he is more involved with politics and the family knows that if they are to ever get an NHL franchise in Quebec City they will need to keep Pierre far away from those dealings. Bettman and Mulroney I heard get on real well, and he is the frontman in dealings with the NHL. It may take 4 or 5 years, but I think eventually they will get a new franchise. Afterall, $$$ talks and the NHL owners would like nothing better than to line their pockets with new franchise fees.

Not happening.
 

ucanthanzalthetruth

#CatsAreCooked
Jul 13, 2013
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This means if county grants SSE's wish, i.e. they wouldn't have to pay annual lease (about $4 million), there wouldn't be any lease termination fee anymore. Now lease termination fee is amount of remaining payments, $4 million times whatever number of years left in lease.

JOL

And do you really think they will walk out if they get that money (well it won't be all of it, but anything they do get)? It would be litigation out the butt and every single thing this ownership group has done has pointed to keeping the team here.You have to have a bit of faith Jol.

 

RatKingBolland*

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And do you really think they will walk out if they get that money (well it won't be all of it, but anything they do get)? It would be litigation out the butt and every single thing this ownership group has done has pointed to keeping the team here.You have to have a bit of faith Jol.



Thanks for the quotes! needed to hear that from the management. Have been a stressfull year lurking on this boards business section aswell as having bad google skills ending up on some pretty hostile Florida sites.
 

RatKingBolland*

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This is what management always says...Hope that Cifu means it, but doubt it unfortunately.

Just checked forbes on Viola says 2.1 billion dollars so atleast that is good. I would like to think people with that kind of money needs something to spend it on and a NA sport franchise is a rather good choice, allot of prestige so to say.
 

IM Clutcm

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Jun 20, 2014
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This is what management always says...Hope that Cifu means it, but doubt it unfortunately.

With the way Viola and Cifu always talk about integrity, honesty, and character they would have to be the most unethical people on the planet to repeatedly reinforce the idea that they won't relocate with no intention of actually keeping the team here. I believe they sincerely think it will work in South Florida and will give the market every chance to prove them otherwise.
 

spacemanatee

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May 18, 2014
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Thanks for the quotes! needed to hear that from the management. Have been a stressfull year lurking on this boards business section aswell as having bad google skills ending up on some pretty hostile Florida sites.

dude, just don't.
a friendly advice; stay away from those kind of sites, the business board and such. it will only upset you.
 

South Florida Canuck

Biggest Canucks Superfan in South Florida
Jun 8, 2006
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dude, just don't.
a friendly advice; stay away from those kind of sites, the business board and such. it will only upset you.

Agreed. Most of the people on that subforum don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. There's this one guy in particular from Hamilton, who says he GUARANTEES a team will be in Hamilton/Southern Ontario within 5 years. [MOD]
 
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Major4Boarding

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First off, as an outsider, the Coyotes situation is in a whole different dimension than any concerns or parallels to the Panthers and Broward.

Wonderful, I wander in here and see this thread.
A few misinformed posters. Glendale thought they had the upper hand and erred in thinking that they have a loophole to get out of the lease contract.
I seriously doubt the CoG ia able to and they now have to deal with getting sued by the Coyotes and then they just found out that the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years. What's really pathetic is that the CoG gets additional revenue from how successful the Coyotes are on the ice, running additional events at the arena and the growth of the Westgate area. The CoG just hampered all that by voting without thinking of the consequences. BTW the Coyotes runs the arena and the $6mil is how much the Coyotes lost running the arena, not the CoG. From my understanding is that the CoG made a killing in just parking during the Super Bowl week. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot...

A bit disingenuous to proclaim posters here are misinformed about the events in Glendale when there's holes in the post above.

The Suns "are getting a new arena" isn't even out of the exploratory phase. The Lease there runs till 2029. Opt out in 2022, if the arena is considered obsolete. That process can begin as early as 2019. Given the recent NBA M.O. on new Arena's (See Sacramento, Milwaukee, etc) I'm confident that's a shoe-in to occur. If staying in Glendale is kaput, the only way the Coyotes can have an immediate landing spot back in Phoenix (and US Airways Arena/Talking Stick) is if Sarver and the City of Phoenix are amenable to tweaking the current lease to allow for another tenant.

The Mayor seems favorable, so do the Suns, for the Coyotes to stay in PHX (on the surface) but those sometimes unsettling things like, the sharing of Arena revenues for example, are still one of the issues. So in other words, its not as automatic or "the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years" as proclaimed

The timeline nowhere fits the sense of urgency regarding this matter, as a start.

I'm not touching the absolution stated above about Glendale "erred" in a loophole and their Lease Agreement. This isn't the thread for it. Those "brave" enough (referenced previously and down thread) can wade on over to the BoH Forum for that subject.

Ryan has already intimated that a vote amongst the CC would be the best solution as he stated it's common knowledge the voters want gambling here. The State receives $250M per year from the Seminoles and that agreement apparently is up in July this year and is negotiable. It is definitely a severe impediment in persuading the State to allow destination resorts in Dade & Broward.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/florida-gambling-debate/

Correct in the aspect there's an appetite for additional Gambling options in Broward. Also correct the the Gaming Compact with the Seminoles truly does stand in the way of a full on explosion in Gambling options. What sucked initially for SSE/AOC was when their partner Boyd Gaming gave up on Dania Jai-alai. At the time its seemed a no-brainer that they could transfer the license to a new facility adjacent to the BB&T. But, however, the new legislation also looks to curb (or stop) just how "transferrable" licenses are.
 

Major4Boarding

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Think gambling isn't a big money maker in Broward? The Hard Rock took in $528M without blackjack or roulette. That's more than all the other 8 paramututal's combined in South Florida. I don't believe that figure even takes into consideration the revenue from the ancillary Hotel, Shops, and Restaurants. Altogether, the Seminole Nation had revenue of over $2.1B in fiscal year 2013-14 with their 7 casino's in Florida and paid the State of Florida around $259M.

Any wonder why Viola and Cifu want to get the State to approve a destination Casino/Hotel/Retail for Broward County. This is the big prize and why you are likely seeing the CC take the necessary steps to satisfy all those naysayers with the consultants doubling their original take to see what the ramifications of such a move would do for the coffers of Broward County. It's also another step in the process of Panther Ownership to reach the true gold ring on their original purchase. You can bet the consulting will be done in time (12/31/15) to be put to a vote by the CC and then sent up to Tallahassee for a final vote early 2016 by the Governor and State Legislature.

The arena and hockey is just the store front to the gold mine awaiting Viola/Cifu if this gets the green light. Piggyback this on top of a franchise that is on the upswing and the Panthers themselves could see an eventual doubling or tripleing in valuation.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...e-classic-seminole-casino-coconut-creek-tribe

Unfortunately I'd need to temper the optism a bit on that. While an additional revenue stream (or streams) would be ideal, its been reiterated that DRC's (Destination Resort Casino's) have their eyes trained towards Miami-Dade and not Broward. Genting (especially Genting), Sands, Wynn, and MGM have all been on record at various points over the last 4 years as saying that Broward's "intriguing", they've politely also stated the preference of Miami. Some posters here and I have discussed a DRC in Broward and unless things have changed since then, the consensus was if there's one in Broward it'd be Lauderdale, not West (as in Sunrise/Plantation).
 

Major4Boarding

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Did you see who is paying for the consultants? It isn't the taxpayers: The total estimated value of this contract is $255,000. To date, the Arena Operating Company has reimbursed the County approximately $143,000 for the cost of this contract.

I think the results will tilt in favor of the AOC.

Not being cynical or condescending but, can you point me in the direction where AOC has reimbursed the County $143K for the Consultancy Study? I've yet to see that.

The issue with Broward County is not toss out, but buy out. If the Panthers offered enough money, then the County would have to seriously consider agreeing to a buy out of the lease.

Assume for a minute that there is a hockey crazy city with a new (empty) arena costing $400 million say Quebec. Assume further that the city is prepared to provide say $100 million to Panthers to buyout the remainder of its lease. Does Broward County take it?

Just asking....

If there's seemingly no other recourse, I believe $100M should more than satisfy that, yes.

Iirc they still owe $250 million. So they would have to offer at least that. At that point you are looking at around $600 million for the team and buyout. It would cost less to buy an expansion team.

There's approximately $178M left on the Overall Arena Debt without having any of my notes handy. SSE's obligation to that is around $70M (or $4.5M per year remaining).

First of all, Viola/Cifu supposedly made a suggestion that they should be able to buy out the lease for $78M in lieu of the $250M++ owed based on present/future projected losses. Whether that is viable or not would probably be decided by what the consultants have to say in their report. Don't forget the consultants are being paid for by Viola/Cifu even though the County Commissionsers requested it to originally determine the impact on the bottom line of allowing the tenant to buy out the lease and leave Broward County.

I'm wondering if this (<--- link to document here) is being confused with Viola paying for the current consultant report because again, I haven't seen anything (I'm aware of) stating that Viola is paying for the current one. (For those who can't view it, its an independent Auditor's report released prior to Yormark's departure).

Which won't matter because Cifu would agree with anything Viola says. but again talking about final decisions is so premature, everyone needs to relax and let this all play out.

This is absolutely sage advice

dude, just don't.
a friendly advice; stay away from those kind of sites, the business board and such. it will only upset you.

This is sage advice as well, although I would add that having thick skin should be a requirement. Seeing how that's my home turf and all.
 

Brokin

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Nov 30, 2014
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Unfortunately I'd need to temper the optism a bit on that. While an additional revenue stream (or streams) would be ideal, its been reiterated that DRC's (Destination Resort Casino's) have their eyes trained towards Miami-Dade and not Broward. Genting (especially Genting), Sands, Wynn, and MGM have all been on record at various points over the last 4 years as saying that Broward's "intriguing", they've politely also stated the preference of Miami. Some posters here and I have discussed a DRC in Broward and unless things have changed since then, the consensus was if there's one in Broward it'd be Lauderdale, not West (as in Sunrise/Plantation).
I know they aren't going to allow DRC's all over the two counties and I would assume there will be a limitation as to how many can be built. I don't know how much say Ryan and CC will have if both Broward and Dade are allowed DRC's, but he is on record that the land next to the BB&T is the obvious choice.
 

Brokin

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Nov 30, 2014
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Not being cynical or condescending but, can you point me in the direction where AOC has reimbursed the County $143K for the Consultancy Study? I've yet to see that.
I gleened the info from the last paragraph:
http://205.166.161.204/agenda_publi...n=76538&nseq=&nrev=&pseq=&prev=#ReturnTo76538

If I am connecting all the dots here, I think there is a lot of momentum and circumstantial evidence that points towards a confident Viola/Cifu in getting what they want. I particularly was intrigued by the investment in the restart of Eastern Airlines. Two guys who have no idea on how to run an airline just don't invest in something like that without having a particular agenda in mind. That agenda I believe is the eventual charter/commercial service to the new DRC in the form of proprietary vacation packages very similar to those sold by industry leaders Allegiant and Sun Country Airlines. It's a heck of a hedge bet and one that takes deep pockets in the form of cash and credit to secure firm orders on 30 very expensive new a/c. The end of the year and the legislative session will be an very interesting political jousting arena between the various lobbyists early next year.
 

Major4Boarding

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I know they aren't going to allow DRC's all over the two counties and I would assume there will be a limitation as to how many can be built. I don't know how much say Ryan and CC will have if both Broward and Dade are allowed DRC's, but he is on record that the land next to the BB&T is the obvious choice.

You assume correctly. Two in total.

Each one with a $2 Billion price tag for the license/capital investment.
 

Major4Boarding

Unfamiliar Moderator
Jan 30, 2009
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Acadmus

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Jul 22, 2003
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I haven't seen it mentioned in the three pages here, but saw it reading an article on the Coyotes' situation, and it warrants mentioning.

The "loophole" the City of Glendale thinks they can rely on - and to be honest, I think it's possible they could prevail - is that they have a city ordinance allowing them to void any contract if one of the key people writing or negotiating the contract is hired by the company being contracted within 3 years of the contract being signed. And indeed, one of the people involved in making the contract was dismissed by the city (the article didn't mention why) and was hired by the Coyotes just months after the deal was signed. There's an appearance of a conflict of interest, and that's what the city council is hanging their hopes on to void the deal.

If I can dredge up that article I'll link it.
 

ucanthanzalthetruth

#CatsAreCooked
Jul 13, 2013
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The Coyotes are done in Arizona, sadly. Glendale is going to win with that loophole and they can't survive without that subsidy. It's over.
 

South Florida Canuck

Biggest Canucks Superfan in South Florida
Jun 8, 2006
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The Coyotes are done in Arizona, sadly. Glendale is going to win with that loophole and they can't survive without that subsidy. It's over.

I'm kind of the opinion that I'll believe it when I see it in regards to the Coyotes moving. I thought two years ago that it was a 100% certainty they would be gone after that season, but they ended up staying. That franchise should really change it's name to the Arizona Cockroaches because they seem to be able to survive a nuclear holocaust. I'm definitely pulling for them to defy the odds and stay in Arizona.
 

ShootIt

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Nov 8, 2008
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I haven't seen it mentioned in the three pages here, but saw it reading an article on the Coyotes' situation, and it warrants mentioning.

The "loophole" the City of Glendale thinks they can rely on - and to be honest, I think it's possible they could prevail - is that they have a city ordinance allowing them to void any contract if one of the key people writing or negotiating the contract is hired by the company being contracted within 3 years of the contract being signed. And indeed, one of the people involved in making the contract was dismissed by the city (the article didn't mention why) and was hired by the Coyotes just months after the deal was signed. There's an appearance of a conflict of interest, and that's what the city council is hanging their hopes on to void the deal.

If I can dredge up that article I'll link it.

sort of weird that the Coyotes would hire that person, unless they did it for an excuse to leave?
 

EnforceTheLaus

In the Year of Our Hatter
Nov 3, 2013
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The Coyotes are done in Arizona, sadly. Glendale is going to win with that loophole and they can't survive without that subsidy. It's over.

I think it's more likely they shack up with the Suns in PHX on an emergency basis and work toward the new arena in PHX.
 

ucanthanzalthetruth

#CatsAreCooked
Jul 13, 2013
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I'm kind of the opinion that I'll believe it when I see it in regards to the Coyotes moving. I thought two years ago that it was a 100% certainty they would be gone after that season, but they ended up staying. That franchise should really change it's name to the Arizona Cockroaches because they seem to be able to survive a nuclear holocaust. I'm definitely pulling for them to defy the odds and stay in Arizona.

I was too, but I can't see how the team will win this argument, and if the lease is voided they're done.

sort of weird that the Coyotes would hire that person, unless they did it for an excuse to leave?
The conspiracy theorist in me also wonders this. It's definitely a good day to be the Coyotes owner.

I think it's more likely they shack up with the Suns in PHX on an emergency basis and work toward the new arena in PHX.

They were already offered a spot there and rejected it, they lose too much money to play there, they need to be subsidized.
 

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