The Coyotes situation and how it relates to the Panthers

[South Florida Canuck]

I don't know how many of you guys have been following the situation in Glendale, but I've been keeping a close on this. Their city council recently voted to void the lease, effectively kicking the Coyotes out of their arena. What is strange about this is that the vote sort of came out of nowhere. Could something like this happen to the Panthers if they don't get the money they're asking? and how could what just happened in Glendale come into play when they finally do have those meetings here?

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[ShootIt]

Ino the owners are asking for money, because they can. If they don't get what they want from the city I think they don't change their mind on staying here. Only if the team continues to struggle/ lack of fan support. Don't think we can be included in the same paragraph compared to Arizona.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

But could the same thing happen here? ie Sunrise kicking the Panthers out of the arena. I'm not really worried but obviously I'm not that well versed on legal issues which is why it's got me thinking. I was surprised no one made a thread about this already which is why I decided to start one.

 

[Big Bjugs]

I'm also wondering the same thing. If Broward County decided they don't want a team anymore, could they put it to a vote? Or does the lease for BB&T, squash that? Or is it that our new kick ass owners, know whats up and are trying to prove that the Panthers belong there?

I only ask because of the past ownership groups, why haven't they already tried to force the team out? It's no secret that this team doesn't bleed red, it bleeds $$$.

 

[Juggernaut27]

Meh. No signs at all that ownership is doing anything but playing hardball in negotiations. People worth hundreds of millions do not spend time slaying hack writers and trolls on Twitter unless they really, Really care about something.

If you want something to worry about go and Google HFT and read Flashboys by M. Lewis (all his books are worth reading) - that's the biggest iceberg on this franchises' horizon and I am 90% sure V&C have long since insulated themselves from anything too catastrophic there. Owning a (soon to be) popular pro sports team in Miami is an important part of that insulation, too.

I'd post something more substantial but I feel a lock coming on.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

I just hated how people would always lump us in with the Coyotes. From what I understand, their biggest problems are they have a terrible lease (where as ours is pretty decent) and their arena location really sucks. I hope they get things worked out though. I don't think Arizona is a bad market. I think they're like us in the sense that they're tired of being screwed around. There has been some talk of them moving back to Phoenix and sharing an arena with the Suns.

The reason I posted this thread was that does this set a precedent for what could possibly happen at these upcoming meetings? I read the BOH boards a lot but some of this stuff is so confusing that I really don't understand what's going on. That's why I was wondering if someone here could put things in layman's terms for me.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Most people have no idea what's going on with the Panthers. I put lots of effort into finding out what happened last summer with the team, and they are not remotely close to moving. Love proving those business boards clowns wrong.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I don't know how many of you guys have been following the situation in Glendale, but I've been keeping a close on this. Their city council recently voted to void the lease, effectively kicking the Coyotes out of their arena. What is strange about this is that the vote sort of came out of nowhere. Could something like this happen to the Panthers if they don't get the money they're asking? and how could what just happened in Glendale come into play when they finally do have those meetings here?

They voided the lease because the city of Glendale is bankrupt and can't pay the 15 million a season they owe to the Coyotes. The city does not want the team to leave.

Ino the owners are asking for money, because they can. If they don't get what they want from the city I think they don't change their mind on staying here. Only if the team continues to struggle/ lack of fan support. Don't think we can be included in the same paragraph compared to Arizona.

The Coyotes can't survive in Glendale without the 15 million dollar subsidy. They are done in Glendale, probably the state of Arizona as well. May have one more lame duck season there.

But could the same thing happen here? ie Sunrise kicking the Panthers out of the arena. I'm not really worried but obviously I'm not that well versed on legal issues which is why it's got me thinking. I was surprised no one made a thread about this already which is why I decided to start one.

Why does Broward County want the Panthers gone? They would never in a million years kick them out, the Panthers cause Broward no harm.

I'm also wondering the same thing. If Broward County decided they don't want a team anymore, could they put it to a vote? Or does the lease for BB&T, squash that? Or is it that our new kick ass owners, know whats up and are trying to prove that the Panthers belong there?

I only ask because of the past ownership groups, why haven't they already tried to force the team out? It's no secret that this team doesn't bleed red, it bleeds $$$.

Broward will never kick the Panthers out.

I just hated how people would always lump us in with the Coyotes. From what I understand, their biggest problems are they have a terrible lease (where as ours is pretty decent) and their arena location really sucks. I hope they get things worked out though. I don't think Arizona is a bad market. I think they're like us in the sense that they're tired of being screwed around. There has been some talk of them moving back to Phoenix and sharing an arena with the Suns.

The reason I posted this thread was that does this set a precedent for what could possibly happen at these upcoming meetings? I read the BOH boards a lot but some of this stuff is so confusing that I really don't understand what's going on. That's why I was wondering if someone here could put things in layman's terms for me.

The Coyotes lease is terrible for Glendale, awesome for Barroway and co. The Panthers lease is fair.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

Most people have no idea what's going on with the Panthers. I put lots of effort into finding out what happened last summer with the team, and they are not remotely close to moving. Love proving those business boards clowns wrong.

Why is that subforum so full of people who don't know what's going on with our team? I mean, I really hated to make this thread because this team is on the rise. We've drafted really well and seem to be only a step away from making the playoffs. I felt like it was necessary to post a thread about this because I wonder if the Coyotes situation affects the negotiations with the county.

 

[IM Clutcm]

Why is that subforum so full of people who don't know what's going on with our team? I mean, I really hated to make this thread because this team is on the rise. We've drafted really well and seem to be only a step away from making the playoffs. I felt like it was necessary to post a thread about this because I wonder if the Coyotes situation affects the negotiations with the county.

Point one: Because it's easier to sit back and judge the situation on nothing more than ignorance rather than put in the work to understand what's actually going on. Listen to Hanzal. He likely knows more about the situation than everyone but Cifu and Viola.

Point two: It doesn't.

 

[Brokin]

Can Broward County void the remainder of the lease if ownership continues to abide by the present terms?..........No. Could Broward County tell ownership to pound salt on their request to change the lease in financial areas that would benefit ownership?.........Yes. Ownership then has a couple of options. #1. They could sell the team. #2. They could petition the Board of Governors of the NHL to move the team to another city (I believe it takes a yes vote of 25 or 28 of the 30 owners to get league approval).

Bettman and the Board of Governors want a team in this area. If Broward County chooses to play hardball and there is no middle ground in the negotiations, then ownership will plead their case to Bettman and the Board. I believe Bettmans first response would be that Viola/Cifu knew what they were getting into before they bought the team and they will have to live with it. If that still won't satisfy them, then I'm sure Bettman will do all he can to find another ownership group to buy the team and keep it here. If there is no available group willing to keep the team in Broward, then it's possible the vote to move the team could change. Cost to move the team would include a buyout of the lease by present ownership or new ownership in another city.

Lots of hurdles for ownership at this point in time. I have to believe both Broward and ownership see they have a viable franchise that could benefit both if they sit down and find common ground.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Why is that subforum so full of people who don't know what's going on with our team? I mean, I really hated to make this thread because this team is on the rise. We've drafted really well and seem to be only a step away from making the playoffs. I felt like it was necessary to post a thread about this because I wonder if the Coyotes situation affects the negotiations with the county.

Because people just see the empty seats and want the team gone instead of actually seeing what's going on. The Coyotes situation is irrelevant to negotiations, the arbitrator impact report will be the key to if they get more money (they won't), Glendale doesn't matter. I promise you will know well in advance if the Panthers ever move.

 

[FlaPnthrsPunk]

I'm hoping if the Panthers become successful over the next few seasons that the elitist Canadian fans stop lumping us in with the Coyotes as you'd assume attendance would become massively higher. This is a really bad situation for Arizona. I think unless another suburb locally can come through either with a new arena or they can play in their own barn in Downtown Phoenix, they might become the new Las Vegas team.

I felt awful when hearing the news the other night. The Coyotes have had a similar history to us since moving to Arizona. Not many years of success and they haven't come consistently. They play out in the suburbs, which hurts attendance in a non-traditional hockey market. I know they have their small diehard fanbase as we do here. It's players like Shane Doan that I felt the worst for as he's dedicated twenty years to this organization.

Our situation might not be the best, but it's far from what theirs is. With Viola & Cifu as owners, I have so much more faith in staying put than I did a year ago. Northern fans don't want to look into our situation, see a half empty barn on most nights, and figure we're moving to Quebec in September.

 

[Laus723]

They're playing ads for season seats during the Finals, I've never seen that before. It's smart, and also shows their desire to stay. Team isn't facing any threat of moving.

Yotes and Panthers have few similarities. IMO, our team more closely resembles the Hawks from Wirtz, to his passing, and his son taking over. New regime focused on success.

 

[Erased]

They're playing ads for season seats during the Finals, I've never seen that before. It's smart, and also shows their desire to stay. Team isn't facing any threat of moving.

Yotes and Panthers have few similarities. IMO, our team more closely resembles the Hawks from Wirtz, to his passing, and his son taking over. New regime focused on success.

Right? I can't remember seeing a single Panthers commercial last year while wasn't already watching a Panthers game. Kind of hard to draw in fans if you don't even advertise.

 

[pb1300]

The Coyotes situation is different from ours. We arent in great shape, but we are in much better shape than the Yotes. The City of Glendale really did a shady thing though. They just recently signed a 15 year deal with the Yotes, but voided it because they found a loophole in the contract. The arena, not including the Yotes, lost almost $6 million last year, and when you add the amount the Yotes lost, that could have given them the motivation to do something like this.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

Because people just see the empty seats and want the team gone instead of actually seeing what's going on. The Coyotes situation is irrelevant to negotiations, the arbitrator impact report will be the key to if they get more money (they won't), Glendale doesn't matter. I promise you will know well in advance if the Panthers ever move.

I thought the general consensus was that they won't get everything they're asking for, but they won't get nothing either, that it was somewhere in between.

 

[DesertDawg]

The Coyotes situation is different from ours. We arent in great shape, but we are in much better shape than the Yotes. The City of Glendale really did a shady thing though. They just recently signed a 15 year deal with the Yotes, but voided it because they found a loophole in the contract. The arena, not including the Yotes, lost almost $6 million last year, and when you add the amount the Yotes lost, that could have given them the motivation to do something like this.

Wonderful, I wander in here and see this thread.
A few misinformed posters. Glendale thought they had the upper hand and erred in thinking that they have a loophole to get out of the lease contract.
I seriously doubt the CoG ia able to and they now have to deal with getting sued by the Coyotes and then they just found out that the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years. What's really pathetic is that the CoG gets additional revenue from how successful the Coyotes are on the ice, running additional events at the arena and the growth of the Westgate area. The CoG just hampered all that by voting without thinking of the consequences. BTW the Coyotes runs the arena and the $6mil is how much the Coyotes lost running the arena, not the CoG. From my understanding is that the CoG made a killing in just parking during the Super Bowl week. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot...

 

[South Florida Canuck]

Wonderful, I wander in here and see this thread.
A few misinformed posters. Glendale thought they had the upper hand and erred in thinking that they have a loophole to get out of the lease contract.
I seriously doubt the CoG ia able to and they now have to deal with getting sued by the Coyotes and then they just found out that the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years. What's really pathetic is that the CoG gets additional revenue from how successful the Coyotes are on the ice, running additional events at the arena and the growth of the Westgate area. The CoG just hampered all that by voting without thinking of the consequences. BTW the Coyotes runs the arena and the $6mil is how much the Coyotes lost running the arena, not the CoG. From my understanding is that the CoG made a killing in just parking during the Super Bowl week. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot...

Good to hear from a Coyote fan's perspective. We definitely feel your pain as we have been going through some of the same crap in the last year or so. Although our pain probably doesn't compare to all the BS you guys had to put up with. Here's to hoping the Coyotes end up staying in the greater Phoenix area and that they can move to the East Valley closer to the fan base.

 

[IM Clutcm]

Wonderful, I wander in here and see this thread.
A few misinformed posters. Glendale thought they had the upper hand and erred in thinking that they have a loophole to get out of the lease contract.
I seriously doubt the CoG ia able to and they now have to deal with getting sued by the Coyotes and then they just found out that the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years. What's really pathetic is that the CoG gets additional revenue from how successful the Coyotes are on the ice, running additional events at the arena and the growth of the Westgate area. The CoG just hampered all that by voting without thinking of the consequences. BTW the Coyotes runs the arena and the $6mil is how much the Coyotes lost running the arena, not the CoG. From my understanding is that the CoG made a killing in just parking during the Super Bowl week. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot...

Thanks for the insight. Always nice to hear from those close to the situation rather than the "experts" judging from the outside.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I thought the general consensus was that they won't get everything they're asking for, but they won't get nothing either, that it was somewhere in between.

They will just try to negotiate a new deal, because the one they presented had no chance of passing. Things aren't that bad. Not great, but not bad.

Wonderful, I wander in here and see this thread.
A few misinformed posters. Glendale thought they had the upper hand and erred in thinking that they have a loophole to get out of the lease contract.
I seriously doubt the CoG ia able to and they now have to deal with getting sued by the Coyotes and then they just found out that the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years. What's really pathetic is that the CoG gets additional revenue from how successful the Coyotes are on the ice, running additional events at the arena and the growth of the Westgate area. The CoG just hampered all that by voting without thinking of the consequences. BTW the Coyotes runs the arena and the $6mil is how much the Coyotes lost running the arena, not the CoG. From my understanding is that the CoG made a killing in just parking during the Super Bowl week. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot...

I want the Coyotes to stay but I don't think Glendale would do it if they weren't reasonably confident they could win. I hope downtown Phoenix is a possibility, but I'm skeptical. You have my sympathy though. It sucks.

 

[Brokin]

This consultant thing has been going on for quite sometime. The subject was broached on 4/14/2015 from what I can gather on line. During a CC meeting, they voted in favor for more funding by 8-0 for the consultants (who have been working on whether the county needs the Cats or not). Second Amendment to Agreement between Broward County and Stifel, Nicolaus & Company, Inc., for Arena Financial Advisory Services, providing for additional contract negotiation support and financial analyses relating to the Broward County Civic Arena, increasing the total contract amount by $117,500 from $137,500 (including $12,500 for reimbursables) to $255,000 (including $30,000 in reimbursables); and authorize the Mayor and Clerk to execute same.

http://205.166.161.204/agenda_publi...n=76538&nseq=&nrev=&pseq=&prev=#ReturnTo76538

They were supposed to have some answers this spring from Stifel, Nicolaus etal but instead the CC wanted more consulting. The State Legislature voted in favor of allowing the possibility of Dade & Broward County to pursue a destination resort similar to the Hard Rock Casino. Mayor Tim Ryan intimated the land around the BB&T center would be the best possible site for that. I am just assuming that the vote for more money for the consultants probably was all about seeing about the viability of that project. It would then have to have a referendum vote by each county (option of a county vote at a cost of $4.5 or just a vote amongst the CC) for approval before being sent back to the State Legislature. Ryan has already intimated that a vote amongst the CC would be the best solution as he stated it's common knowledge the voters want gambling here. The State receives $250M per year from the Seminoles and that agreement apparently is up in July this year and is negotiable. It is definitely a severe impediment in persuading the State to allow destination resorts in Dade & Broward.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/florida-gambling-debate/

 

[DesertDawg]

I want the Coyotes to stay but I don't think Glendale would do it if they weren't reasonably confident they could win. I hope downtown Phoenix is a possibility, but I'm skeptical. You have my sympathy though. It sucks.

I disagree with you, The CofG has continually looked clueless, too much like a small town politics. They are in way over their heads. I expect the council members to spend the rest of their term dealing with damage control.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

They will just try to negotiate a new deal, because the one they presented had no chance of passing. Things aren't that bad. Not great, but not bad.

OK gotcha. I wasn't aware they could negotiate a new deal

 

[jol]

Wonderful, I wander in here and see this thread.
A few misinformed posters. Glendale thought they had the upper hand and erred in thinking that they have a loophole to get out of the lease contract.
I seriously doubt the CoG ia able to and they now have to deal with getting sued by the Coyotes and then they just found out that the Suns are going to get a new arena in downtown Phoenix, which would be completed about the time the Coyotes can opt out of their lease agreement in 3 years. What's really pathetic is that the CoG gets additional revenue from how successful the Coyotes are on the ice, running additional events at the arena and the growth of the Westgate area. The CoG just hampered all that by voting without thinking of the consequences. BTW the Coyotes runs the arena and the $6mil is how much the Coyotes lost running the arena, not the CoG. From my understanding is that the CoG made a killing in just parking during the Super Bowl week. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot...

Well, on the other hand CoG has given more to team ($80 million) than fans have given (gate revenue) in four years.
Are Suns going to pay $15 million to Coyotes if they play in same arena?
Anyways, this is lucky break for Coyotes owners, they got free out of jail card.

JOL