The Coyotes are terrible and can't score

The Burdened

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May 1, 2017
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It's way too soon to be talking about John Chayka being a bust of a GM. It's only the beginning of year 3. The plan he implemented is gonna take at least 5 years to really see good results.
What plan is that?
You do realize not every new GM is on a scorched Earth 5-year rebuild, right?

Entering last season, they were supposed to be exiting their rebuild.

Last year Chayka said the group was trying for the playoffs, hence he traded #7 Overall + DeAngelo for Stepan + Raanta and got Hjalamrsson & Demers. Rebuilding teams don't trade #7 overall picks & 21-year old dmen who have 1st rd pedigree.
Not only were they not even close to being a playoff team last year, they finished with 1 less win than the year prior. Also his first big move as GM, he signed Goligoski to big contact in an attempt to get them closer.

This year he acquired Grabner & Galchenyuk and re-signs his 27-year old dmen to a big extension.
If this were a re-build, no attempt would've been made to re-sign him & OEL would've been out the door.

These are not moves of from a GM who thinks his team is years away.
 
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tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Behind A Tree
Long-term I think the team will be fine. Keller's going to be a good 1 for sure. I think these early season struggles will be short lived for Arizona and they'll improve throughout the yr. and challenge for a playoff spot.
 

Halak Ness Monster

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Nov 11, 2010
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Entering last season, they were supposed to be exiting their rebuild.

Last year Chayka said the group was trying for the playoffs, hence he traded #7 Overall + DeAngelo for Stepan + Raanta and got Hjalamrsson & Demers. Rebuilding teams don't trade #7 overall picks & 21-year old dmen who was a former 1st rd pick.
Not only were they not even close to being a playoff team last year, they finished with 1 less win than the year prior. Also his first big move as GM, he signed Goligoski to big contact in an attempt to get them closer.

This year he acquired Grabner & Galchenyuk and re-signs his 27-year old dmen to a big extension.
If this were a re-build, no attempt would've been made to re-sign him & OEL would've been out the door.

These are not moves of from a GM who thinks his team is years away.

Just about everything you said can play into a 5 year rebuild.

1: There's this thing called the salary cap floor and it's quite high. 58.8 million. You can't just build your roster with 500K, 21 and 39 year olds. You need to spend a little money on good players.
Not only that, you have to throw some money out there simply to ice a team that might be capable of selling tickets. 3.35 million per year for a guy(Grabner) that scored 27 goals in each of the last 2 years? Smart, value move.

2: The Galchenyuk trade was absolutely a rebuild move. He's 24 years old and a top 6 center. That's called a core piece. Much more valuable than Max Domi who scored 9 goals each of the last 2 years.

3: The Stepan trade was a move to get a good vet with consistent top 6 production in the lineup. They gave up the 7th overall pick but the odds of landing a 55 point center with the 7th overall pick aren't great. Not only that, Stepan was only 27 years old at the time of the trade. Chayka pretty much picked him to be the "captain" of the forwards during this rebuild.

4: I'm not sure why you trade OEL even in a rebuild. You can pick a player to build around. A 26 year old #1 d-man is a good pick.

You seem to think rebuilding teams should just ice a lineup of 20-22 year olds making league minimum and not spend any money on veterans that can take pressure off youngsters. That's a good way to stunt development.
 

Halak Ness Monster

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The Blues went through a similar rebuild from 2005 to 2010.

We scraped the team in the first year after the lockout trading Pronger, Weight, Tkachuk and letting Demitra walk as the owner sought to sell the team.

But even in year 2 we brought in Jay McKee and Bill Guerin to spend a little money. We also brought back Weight and Tkachuk after trading them for picks. All were moves to try to put butts in the seats and help Oshie, Perron, EJ, Eller, Berglund ease into the NHL and I guess hope to make the playoffs, maybe.

In year 3 we made big splashes getting Paul Kariya and Andy McDonald.

By year 4 we were back in the playoffs. But it really didn't stick unil year 7 when Ken Hitchcock came in and brought his defensive system to St. Louis.

Just because a team spends some money on vets in a rebuild doesn't exactly mean they are trying to compete for the Cup.
 
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The Burdened

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May 1, 2017
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Just about everything you said can play into a 5 year rebuild.

1: There's this thing called the salary cap floor and it's quite high. 58.8 million. You can't just build your roster with 500K, 21 and 39 year olds. You need to spend a little money on good players.
Not only that, you have to throw some money out there simply to ice a team that might be capable of selling tickets. 3.35 million per year for a guy(Grabner) that scored 27 goals in each of the last 2 years? Smart, value move.

2: The Galchenyuk trade was absolutely a rebuild move. He's 24 years old and a top 6 center. That's called a core piece. Much more valuable than Max Domi who scored 9 goals each of the last 2 years.

3: The Stepan trade was a move to get a good vet with consistent top 6 production in the lineup. They gave up the 7th overall pick but the odds of landing a 55 point center with the 7th overall pick aren't great. Not only that, Stepan was only 27 years old at the time of the trade. Chayka pretty much picked him to be the "captain" of the forwards during this rebuild.

4: I'm not sure why you trade OEL even in a rebuild. You can pick a player to build around. A 26 year old #1 d-man is a good pick.

You seem to think rebuilding teams should just ice a lineup of 20-22 year olds making league minimum and not spend any money on veterans that can take pressure off youngsters. That's a good way to stunt development.
1. Re: Salary Cap Floor. Yes, I'm aware of it and so are Arizona. That's why they have such HOF'ers as Pavel Datsyuk, Marian Hossa, Chris Pronger, & Dave Bolland (surely he's in someone's HOF? Somewhere?). If teams like Arizona or Ottawa had it there way, they would use dead cap hits with little actual money owed rather then spend on Michael Grabner's & Alex Goligoski's of the world. While being aggressive in UFA does help get to the floor, he signed those players because he thought they could help his team win hockey games. He traded for Hjalmarsson & Demers because he thought it would help his team win hockey gams.

He wasn't finalist for JvR because he just wanted to get to the floor. Rather, he wanted a 35-goal winger to help his group get where he thought they'd be last year

2. Domi for Chucky was not at all a rebuild move (he actually traded the younger player lel). It was a change of scenery hockey trade. I like Chucky, but he should never be a core piece (until he proves otherwise, and he hasn't in 6-years). If he thinks Galchenyuk is a true core piece, then his team is going to be in the sewer for a while. That sounds harsher than I intend it to, but to me core players are the untouchables and the block in which the team is built upon. Unless he sets the world on fire when he comes back (and he could, but he could also put up the same numbers he always did), Galchenyuk ain't it.

3. Cool. Doesn't change the fact that rebuilding teams don't trade away #7 Overall draft picks + 21-year old dman for a prime aged 27-year old 2C & a 28-year old goalie. Also, that same day, he traded for Hjalmarsson. Nothing says "hey! we're rebuilding!" like trading your draft pick reward for a 70 pt season for players in their prime who are ready to go.

4. You trade OEL if you're rebuilding because he gets you the most futures in return. It's p simple. They didn't trade OEL because he thinks they're close to contending and they're not really rebuilding.

So yeah, I've outlined countless moves that show he's not really rebuilding. You can ignore them if you want, doesn't change the fact that they happened and his team isn't getting results despite adding a lot of prime aged NHL talent.

There is exactly 1 (one) rebuild-ish trade on Chayka's resume: Hanzal & White to Minnesota. Excluding cap dumps, p much every move Chayka has made has been so the team gets better now. That is commendable and a credit to Chayka, however his vision and picking of NHL talent hasn't gotten the Coyotes any results whatsoever. As of right now his vision is failing.
 
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Halak Ness Monster

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So yeah, I've outlined countless moves that show he's not really rebuilding. You can ignore them if you want, doesn't change the fact that they happened and his team isn't getting results.

I have thoroughly considered your point of view and considered all the facts of the case.

After much deliberation: you have not changed my mind at all. About any of the above points.
I think your idea of icing a lineup of nothing but league minimum 20 year olds and cheap, washed up vets would draw massive criticism from your fan base and from around the league. Not only that, it would stunt the development of your young prospects.

Good talk. Have a good day.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
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It's way too soon to be talking about John Chayka being a bust of a GM. It's only the beginning of year 3. The plan he implemented is gonna take at least 5 years to really see good results.
It's going to take AT LEAST 5 years to see results?

If that's the ultimate plan, why doesn't ownership save some money and fire him and the entire scouting staff and have a monkey point to a name on Central Scouting's top 5 or 10 list? Surely that would work at the same pace
 

NeelyWasAWarrior

Don't Poke The Bear
Dec 23, 2006
4,368
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Boston Garden
This team needs to be relocated. It’s a dead hockey market, and it’ll never be popular and as a result, they’ll always have less than mediocre teams. I would cringe so hard if I was drafted by them.

They're dead because they're not exciting to watch. Nobody wants to watch their team get shutout night after night. I'd rather they stay. I like seeing impact players come from non traditional markets. If it wasn't for the coyotes, there would be no auston matthews in the NHL.

On a sidenote, creating a franchise in seattle is only going to create more teams like the coyotes. Mark my words. You can't have all these teams in the league and expect something different.
 
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Halak Ness Monster

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Nov 11, 2010
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It's going to take AT LEAST 5 years to see results?

If that's the ultimate plan, why doesn't ownership save some money and fire him and the entire scouting staff and have a monkey point to a name on Central Scouting's top 5 or 10 list? Surely that would work at the same pace

It took the Blues 6-7 years to become a threat in the West after starting their full blown rebuild in 2005-2006. And we haven't even won anything.

I hate to tell you but rebuilds take a long time.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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Apr 29, 2018
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Yotes look to be the same old yotes

Funny how anyone is surprised by this.

They've did a little to better themselves about 2 years ago when they got Raanta and Stepan and just made, what looks to be a good trade this year for Schmaltz, but other than that everything else is either a wash, or a complete loss.

Chayka is a terrible gm. Absolute garbage. I'd say he's even worse, but when your team is cash strapped, it limits your ability to make high end trades.
 

Revelation

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Aug 15, 2016
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They're like the Blues this year and Sabres under Murray, bunch of good on paper parts but 0 cohesion. Much of it on coaching but lots of players who don't look like they'd have chemistry with each other.

Missing out on both Tkachuks did them in, a Tkachuk/Domi/Keller line would have been godly
 

Hattrick Kane

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Oct 8, 2018
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Funny how anyone is surprised by this.

They've did a little to better themselves about 2 years ago when they got Raanta and Stepan and just made, what looks to be a good trade this year for Schmaltz, but other than that everything else is either a wash, or a complete loss.

Chayka is a terrible gm. Absolute garbage. I'd say he's even worse, but when your team is cash strapped, it limits your ability to make high end trades.
Strome looks good for the Hawks. If anything it’s a wash on the Schmaltz trade as well, and it just shows the Coyotes can’t develop prospects properly.
 
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BKarchitect

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Oct 12, 2017
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Keller's 23 points in 31 games doesn't seem that spectacular for somebody with his talent but consider that he is out-pointing the next highest forward on the team by over 150%. Besides Keller and Stepan, the other two Coyotes forwards in the top 4 in scoring for them are Vinnie Hinostroza and Brad Richardson. Brad freaking Richardson is tied with Keller for the team lead in goals.

There's some talent on this team so what gives? Domi goes to Montreal and explodes, Galchenyuk comes to Arizona and has 3 goals in 21 games. Is this the Rick Tocchet effect?
 

Jormungandr

Registered User
Aug 14, 2002
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Keller's 23 points in 31 games doesn't seem that spectacular for somebody with his talent but consider that he is out-pointing the next highest forward on the team by over 150%. Besides Keller and Stepan, the other two Coyotes forwards in the top 4 in scoring for them are Vinnie Hinostroza and Brad Richardson. Brad freaking Richardson is tied with Keller for the team lead in goals.

There's some talent on this team so what gives? Domi goes to Montreal and explodes, Galchenyuk comes to Arizona and has 3 goals in 21 games. Is this the Rick Tocchet effect?
No. It’s the Coyotes effect.
 

Lays

Registered User
Jan 22, 2017
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Arizona won’t be good for another 5+ years it seems
They still don’t have an elite talent up front besides potentially Keller but even then, he shouldn’t be your best player if you’re trying to get past the 2nd round. Still no franchise C either (Hayton is likely a good 2C)
 

HuGo Sham

MR. CLEAN-up ©Runner77
Apr 7, 2010
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Just about everything you said can play into a 5 year rebuild.

1: There's this thing called the salary cap floor and it's quite high. 58.8 million. You can't just build your roster with 500K, 21 and 39 year olds. You need to spend a little money on good players.
Not only that, you have to throw some money out there simply to ice a team that might be capable of selling tickets. 3.35 million per year for a guy(Grabner) that scored 27 goals in each of the last 2 years? Smart, value move.

2: The Galchenyuk trade was absolutely a rebuild move. He's 24 years old and a top 6 center. That's called a core piece. Much more valuable than Max Domi who scored 9 goals each of the last 2 years.

3: The Stepan trade was a move to get a good vet with consistent top 6 production in the lineup. They gave up the 7th overall pick but the odds of landing a 55 point center with the 7th overall pick aren't great. Not only that, Stepan was only 27 years old at the time of the trade. Chayka pretty much picked him to be the "captain" of the forwards during this rebuild.

4: I'm not sure why you trade OEL even in a rebuild. You can pick a player to build around. A 26 year old #1 d-man is a good pick.

You seem to think rebuilding teams should just ice a lineup of 20-22 year olds making league minimum and not spend any money on veterans that can take pressure off youngsters. That's a good way to stunt development.
still a great post two months later. "Rebuild move" are the best words. Domi is a year younger lolz
 

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