The COVID 19 Thread (Part II - READ MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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That's your own problem, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for spreading misinformation at a time of crisis.



You do realize there are people who can still acquire masks from overseas right..
And yes surgical masks work much better than you describe
Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks




You seem to have conveniently moved the goal post and fail to come up with a rebuttal to your Scandinavian countries doing "well" assertion. I will let that pass I guess.

Anyways your comment about Singapore just shows how ignorant you are about the situations in Asia. Are you assuming all the "Asian countries" are acting and behaving the same way? The prevalence and usage of masks are not the same in these Asian countries and they are not a homogenous entity.

https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=c0c50a384ef3801b3e7225e04c8eba29&oe=5EB0E0FB
https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=75bfb7540a7902142e2fd42101abe260&oe=5EAEFAB2

These are pictures taken in Singapore on March 28th. The Asian countries where most if not all of its population are wearing masks are Taiwan, China, Hong Kong and South Korea. Even Japan with its low number of cases, doesn't have widespread usage of masks partly due to supply issues. (See I don't cherry pick stats to support my argument). This would also be due to Japan's low number of tests as well.



So 260/1M (BC) is "identical" to 224/1M (Singapore)? That's like saying a 60p player is identical to a 70p player just because the difference is 16%. Very creative usage of that word.

The population density in Singapore is 8,358 per KM^2 vs 5.02 per KM^2 in BC. So a country with a far denser population, with limited usage of masks, is still doing better than BC by a wide margin.

(I am guessing you might argue that most of BC's population are centred around GVR.. I am going to save you the trouble by telling you Singapore still has a significantly higher population density.)
Thanks for the information, but aren’t the vast majority of our cases in care homes? Plus, when schools reopen, maybe we should teach kids to wear the masks properly, and they can teach their parents? Then, when someone is feeling ill, they can properly wear a mask out in public. (Or maybe people will learn to stay home when not well?). IMO that’s more effective than a mask. I don’t get why healthy people should be wearing masks, unless they are medical people. Or, is general mask wearing because we just can’t trust others to stay home when they are sick? This whole Covid 19 will get resolved, but will people be expected to wear masks after? I think people need to self isolate when they feel ill. The regular flu (of which there are many types) and bacterial infections do a lot of harm too, especially to the same groups Covid 19 is harming. Plus, we all should get the flu shot. Maybe that should be mandated?
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,950
13,920
That's your own problem, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for spreading misinformation at a time of crisis.



You do realize there are people who can still acquire masks from overseas right..
And yes surgical masks work much better than you describe
Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks




You seem to have conveniently moved the goal post and fail to come up with a rebuttal to your Scandinavian countries doing "well" assertion. I will let that pass I guess.

Anyways your comment about Singapore just shows how ignorant you are about the situations in Asia. Are you assuming all the "Asian countries" are acting and behaving the same way? The prevalence and usage of masks are not the same in these Asian countries and they are not a homogenous entity.

https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=c0c50a384ef3801b3e7225e04c8eba29&oe=5EB0E0FB
https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=75bfb7540a7902142e2fd42101abe260&oe=5EAEFAB2

These are pictures taken in Singapore on March 28th. The Asian countries where most if not all of its population are wearing masks are Taiwan, China, Hong Kong and South Korea. Even Japan with its low number of cases, doesn't have widespread usage of masks partly due to supply issues. (See I don't cherry pick stats to support my argument). This would also be due to Japan's low number of tests as well.



So 260/1M (BC) is "identical" to 224/1M (Singapore)? That's like saying a 60p player is identical to a 70p player just because the difference is 16%. Very creative usage of that word.

The population density in Singapore is 8,358 per KM^2 vs 5.02 per KM^2 in BC. So a country with a far denser population, with limited usage of masks, is still doing better than BC by a wide margin.

(I am guessing you might argue that most of BC's population are centred around GVR.. I am going to save you the trouble by telling you Singapore still has a significantly higher population density.)
Thanks for the information, but aren’t the vast majority of our cases in care homes? Plus, when schools reopen, maybe we should teach kids to wear the masks properly, and they can teach their parents? Then, when someone is feeling ill, they can properly wear a mask out in public. (Or maybe people will learn to stay home when not well?). IMO that’s more effective than a mask. I don’t get why healthy people should be wearing masks, unless they are medical people. Or, is general mask wearing because we just can’t trust others to stay home when they are sick? This whole Covid 19 will get resolved, but will people be expected to wear masks after? I think people need to self isolate when they feel ill. The regular flu (of which there are many types) and bacterial infections do a lot of harm too, especially to the same groups Covid 19 is harming. Plus, we all should get the flu shot. Maybe that should be mandated?
 

m9

m9
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You can't. You actually want an airtight seal with a respirator or mask you have to go clean shaven. I have a goatee and mustache and even that was problematic with a larger unit. Full beard? Forget it.

Also, holy shit BG. Stay safe, man.

Absolutely. Most places won't even bother to fit test you if you show up with a beard.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,154
5,850
Vancouver
113,704 NY State COVID cases.
69,000 in NYC.
3,565 dead.
Oneida County, Utica's county, has had 7 new cases since Friday. Total now is since the start is 86 with 2 deaths.
NY State is a war zone. My wife and I are hunkered down in our home/bunker. Our son delivered a large grocery order as we were running short since our shop in early March, the last time my wife and I were anywhere in public other than our yard.He and his wife were wearing masks, NY's latest recommendation, and gloves. They removed every item at the entrance to our garage, wiped the packaging down with disinfectant wipes, instructed us to wear masks and gloves and re-wipe the items as we unpacked them in the house, remove all packaging and repack them in our own food storage bags and and containers for the freezer, cupboards, and fridge, then discard every bag box and packaging in the garage trash and recycling. We're set for another while. Interesting the items you have trouble getting: bread flour, chicken breasts, bread, buttermilk, soft butter, frozen corn and peas, and dish washer packets.

Will you guys please do what you are told? The last thing you want to see is anything the likes of which Donald Trump is doing to our country. It boggles the mind how anyone with more than a 5-yr-old's brain can believe anything this snake oil salesman has to offer.

Stay safe my friend. Thoughts are with you.
 

Kryten

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What’s weird is everyone talking about n95s because it’s a buzzword the media keeps saying. What the medical field really needs are p100s.
 

m9

m9
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What’s weird is everyone talking about n95s because it’s a buzzword the media keeps saying. What the medical field really needs are p100s.

Because it's not practical.

P100s are much more uncommon, especially in respirator form. Most people who use them will use them in half-masks or full-face masks. They also often can only be used with the same branded mask. At a time when the majority of people can't be fit tested or trained, pushing half masks or full face masks makes no sense.

Add to that the cost of P100 respirator v N95 and it's pretty simple why N95 is the go-to.
 

Kryten

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Because it's not practical.

P100s are much more uncommon, especially in respirator form. Most people who use them will use them in half-masks or full-face masks. They also often can only be used with the same branded mask. At a time when the majority of people can't be fit tested or trained, pushing half masks or full face masks makes no sense.

Add to that the cost of P100 respirator v N95 and it's pretty simple why N95 is the go-to.
True but there is a cost saving point with reusable half/full face, half masks also leak with the flapper valve which wouldn’t be great. There are p100 medical dust masks, obviously not in the quantities needed though. In the future I hope everyone from individuals, corps and governments keep better stockpiles
 

m9

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True but there is a cost saving point with reusable half/full face, half masks also leak with the flapper valve which wouldn’t be great. There are p100 medical dust masks, obviously not in the quantities needed though. In the future I hope everyone from individuals, corps and governments keep better stockpiles

The cost savings of a half/full mask is meaningless when you can't fit test/train properly. And as mentioned, since they are brand and size specific it creates a logistical mess. You also need to clean them which isn't a big deal when you working with something like dust but could create more problems in this situation.

N95 are sized for most people already, can train them in 2 minutes and you can ship them to everyone. Plus, it is much easier to ship respirators than masks, filters/cartridges, cleaning wipes, anti-fog wipes, etc.

Agreed that in a perfect world a P100 respirator would be ideal but we are far from a perfect world right now.
 

Kryten

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The cost savings of a half/full mask is meaningless when you can't fit test/train properly. And as mentioned, since they are brand and size specific it creates a logistical mess. You also need to clean them which isn't a big deal when you working with something like dust but could create more problems in this situation.

N95 are sized for most people already, can train them in 2 minutes and you can ship them to everyone. Plus, it is much easier to ship respirators than masks, filters/cartridges, cleaning wipes, anti-fog wipes, etc.

Agreed that in a perfect world a P100 respirator would be ideal but we are far from a perfect world right now.
All agreed, my point was to to medical community though, who many already have the fit tests done and their own respirators because of lab/field/training work needing different filters for different materials. My view is of a perfect world though and hopefully in the future we will be better prepared. Proper n,r,p100s for medical and maybe essential workers, then n,r,p95s at minimum for the commoners
 
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Fatass

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What will happen with trade and business with China and other countries when this crises is over?
Trade will continue. The rich will benefit, and the rest of us will be worse off. Financially that’s what happens in world-wide crisis. But what other choice do we have? Do we just keep going without trying to protect our elderly, and other most at risk people, so we can keep the economy strong?
 

Motte and Bailey

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Jun 21, 2017
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Thanks for the information, but aren’t the vast majority of our cases in care homes? Plus, when schools reopen, maybe we should teach kids to wear the masks properly, and they can teach their parents? Then, when someone is feeling ill, they can properly wear a mask out in public. (Or maybe people will learn to stay home when not well?). IMO that’s more effective than a mask. I don’t get why healthy people should be wearing masks, unless they are medical people. Or, is general mask wearing because we just can’t trust others to stay home when they are sick? This whole Covid 19 will get resolved, but will people be expected to wear masks after? I think people need to self isolate when they feel ill. The regular flu (of which there are many types) and bacterial infections do a lot of harm too, especially to the same groups Covid 19 is harming. Plus, we all should get the flu shot. Maybe that should be mandated?

The reason why it’s a good idea for everyone to wear any kind of mask regardless of symptoms is the fact that 50-75% of people infected with SARS-2-nCov are asymptomatic and thus unwitting carriers.
 

Frostage

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May 23, 2014
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First as was already addressed but I feel the need to reiterate: Singapore is not a mask wearing place and their government did not advocate wearing masks. They have reversed this decision and now advocate wearing a mask.


Thanks for the information, but aren’t the vast majority of our cases in care homes? Plus, when schools reopen, maybe we should teach kids to wear the masks properly, and they can teach their parents? Then, when someone is feeling ill, they can properly wear a mask out in public. (Or maybe people will learn to stay home when not well?). IMO that’s more effective than a mask. I don’t get why healthy people should be wearing masks, unless they are medical people. Or, is general mask wearing because we just can’t trust others to stay home when they are sick? This whole Covid 19 will get resolved, but will people be expected to wear masks after? I think people need to self isolate when they feel ill. The regular flu (of which there are many types) and bacterial infections do a lot of harm too, especially to the same groups Covid 19 is harming. Plus, we all should get the flu shot. Maybe that should be mandated?

The problem with this virus is that people don't know they are sick, and then by the time they do, it is too late. They have come into contact with a lot of people and spread the virus which repeats until the virus cannot find a suitable host.

There are cases of people in China getting the virus. Then healing and testing negative, and then testing positive again. This is very interesting and troublesome.
 
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nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
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That's your own problem, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for spreading misinformation at a time of crisis.



You do realize there are people who can still acquire masks from overseas right..
And yes surgical masks work much better than you describe
Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks




You seem to have conveniently moved the goal post and fail to come up with a rebuttal to your Scandinavian countries doing "well" assertion. I will let that pass I guess.

Anyways your comment about Singapore just shows how ignorant you are about the situations in Asia. Are you assuming all the "Asian countries" are acting and behaving the same way? The prevalence and usage of masks are not the same in these Asian countries and they are not a homogenous entity.

https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=c0c50a384ef3801b3e7225e04c8eba29&oe=5EB0E0FB
https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=75bfb7540a7902142e2fd42101abe260&oe=5EAEFAB2

These are pictures taken in Singapore on March 28th. The Asian countries where most if not all of its population are wearing masks are Taiwan, China, Hong Kong and South Korea. Even Japan with its low number of cases, doesn't have widespread usage of masks partly due to supply issues. (See I don't cherry pick stats to support my argument). This would also be due to Japan's low number of tests as well.



So 260/1M (BC) is "identical" to 224/1M (Singapore)? That's like saying a 60p player is identical to a 70p player just because the difference is 16%. Very creative usage of that word.

The population density in Singapore is 8,358 per KM^2 vs 5.02 per KM^2 in BC. So a country with a far denser population, with limited usage of masks, is still doing better than BC by a wide margin.

(I am guessing you might argue that most of BC's population are centred around GVR.. I am going to save you the trouble by telling you Singapore still has a significantly higher population density.)

Thanks Ita for all the links.
I advocate the use of masks too...
But I only have anecdotal evidences...
And that is not enough these days.

I like to add that masks only slow the spread of the virus if everyone wears one.
There is a case in Hong Kong where a person...
Who later tested positive...
Refused to wear a mask when she got tested...
And the two examiners who wore surgical masks also got it...
Even though she was just with them for about 15 minutes.

The only question is the effectiveness of cloth masks...
And we only have the Czech Republic as the closest example.
Everyone there is required to wear a mask...
And the country is definitely ahead of the curb compared to other European countries.
That is why I think masks work...
But only when everyone wears one.

I do think the bare minimum should be a surgical mask...
Just because of a better fit in my experience...
But in times of great shortages...
People have to resort to any coverings now.

Please do correct me if I got any details wrong...
And I will take down the post.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,950
13,920
First as was already addressed but I feel the need to reiterate: Singapore is not a mask wearing place and their government did not advocate wearing masks. They have reversed this decision and now advocate wearing a mask.
Thanks. Good information. I wonder if when people go back to their regular daily jobs (people have to eventually get back to work, or we won’t have a country) we will all be wearing masks? If that’s the case, and will be an expectation, don’t people who smoke or have respiratory troubles, have difficulties breathing when wearing certain masks?




The problem with this virus is that people don't know they are sick, and then by the time they do, it is too late. They have come into contact with a lot of people and spread the virus which repeats until the virus cannot find a suitable host.

There are cases of people in China getting the virus. Then healing and testing negative, and then testing positive again. This is very interesting and troublesome.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
Could you imagine a deciding game in the SCF played with zero fans in attendance? That just doesn't sit well with me. I mean, I would love for the Canucks to win any Stanley Cup, but it wouldn't be the same if there was no atmosphere and it was a mini tournament in just one city. It would also mean that we as fans couldn't get together to watch it or celebrate it. That would have to be the worst way to win a cup...which seems about right for the Canucks to finally do it.
If Original Six fans can try to claim some sort of superiority from having won Cups in a 6-team league with no draft and virtually no foreigners (if a person ever says "at least we've won the Cup" in response to anything, they've lost the argument IMO), then the Canucks could be awarded the Cup by random draw and I'd count it.
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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If Original Six fans can try to claim some sort of superiority from having won Cups in a 6-team league with no draft and virtually no foreigners (if a person ever says "at least we've won the Cup" in response to anything, they've lost the argument IMO), then the Canucks could be awarded the Cup by random draw and I'd count it.
It wasn't even a 6 team league during a good chunk of the "Original Six" era. The Detroit Red Wings either had a direct or indirect control over the other three American franchises (reason why they called it south of the border "The Norris [Wings owner] league) for the longest time.
 
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The Vasili Jerry

Serenity now!
Jun 11, 2011
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If Original Six fans can try to claim some sort of superiority from having won Cups in a 6-team league with no draft and virtually no foreigners (if a person ever says "at least we've won the Cup" in response to anything, they've lost the argument IMO), then the Canucks could be awarded the Cup by random draw and I'd count it.
Well to me winning a cup is about the experience and the memories. I don’t care if they just put a “1” in the Stanley Cup column next to the Canucks — I want to have that 2011 experience with one more win. In my opinion the experience would be measurably lower if they won it by some mini tournament with no fans, no viewing parties, no parade, etc.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
Well to me winning a cup is about the experience and the memories. I don’t care if they just put a “1” in the Stanley Cup column next to the Canucks — I want to have that 2011 experience with one more win. In my opinion the experience would be measurably lower if they won it by some mini tournament with no fans, no viewing parties, no parade, etc.
Well, yeah, obviously... I am mostly just taking a shot at "Cupzzzz" as a relevant historical statistic, when it really isn't one at all. I find it silly how we celebrate the 1915 Vancouver Millionaires who did less to win a non-NHL challenge cup in hockey's infancy (just because it happened to be the same trophy in a completely different context) than the average Canuck playoff team has done in a forgettable year, for example.
 

bossram

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Sep 25, 2013
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It's all a moot point on awarding the Cup though. I'd put it at <0.1% chance there are any professional sports before the end of the summer.
 

Huggy43

Registered User
Jan 13, 2016
1,451
851
Burnaby, BC
Honestly caring about the Cup being awarded or any sports being played should be the last of our concerns atm.

Let’s just get back to feeling safe going to the grocery store first....
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,288
14,030
Hiding under WTG's bed...
Honestly caring about the Cup being awarded or any sports being played should be the last of our concerns atm.

Let’s just get back to feeling safe going to the grocery store first....
Pretty rare for me to actually go into grocery store (I'm talking way before this virus stuff). Now, I actually think it might be safer to buy much of my stuff there (fewer people around). Support your local small business who might not be able to 'ride this out' either unlike the big supermarket chains.
 
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