The COVID 19 Thread (Part II - READ MOD WARNING IN OP)

[clunk]

clean-shaven is safer too.

Yep. Used to work in a blasting place and had a beard at the time. those things do not seal when you have a beard. Very dangerous and immediately I could taste the fumes as I was using a grinder. You definitely need to shave if you're using these things and want full protection.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Not sure it will reach 500k but there are some really stupid people down here let me tell you. At 1000 deaths/day it is the third highest daily cause of death. Behind heart disease and all cancers. If it reached 2000 it will be #1 and that seems inevitable. Depending on the models it will be between the 7th and 3rd leading cause of death for 2020. And still people don't treat this seriously.

As an example, a person at the plant I work at (I've been working from home for 3 weeks). His wife came down with a dry cough and fever where she is coughing more than not. But she doesn't have respiratory distress (yet) so she tried to go to work (Walmart) who smartly sent her home immediately. The husband shows up to our work even though our guidelines are if there is a potential case you were in contact with, you aren't allowed to come to the site without having that person you've been in contact with cleared by a doctor. Not only that, but he doesn't think it's a big deal he showed up to work because, and I quote, "we have been practicing social distancing at home. Well except for the Kitchen and Bedroom." Practicing social distancing by the potential infected person showing up to Walmart to work their shift and pretending you are social distancing at home except for the 10 hours of the day you aren't. We STILL have people in the plant that think it's a hoax.

NYC ambulance drivers and NY Fire Dept EMTs have been told if you pick up a cardiac arrest and there is no pulse, no proof of blood flow don't bring them into the hospitals.

Under the rule "if you can't get revived on the scene, that's it. They're going to work on you, but if they can't get a pulse back, they won't transport you" to to the hospital, the worker explained. The body can be left in the custody of the NYPD.

The NYPD was considering a volunteer "DOA team" of detectives to retrieve the bodies of coronavirus victims as the number of fatalities continues to grow.

To my posting comrades above the border, follow the damned distancing rules and stay at home as much as possible. Every state in this union started out the same way, just a positive case or 2, then a few more, and then a steady low number . All of this providing folks with a false sense of security. Then B-A-M!!!!!!!!!!

- The first positive case in the US was reported January 21st in Washington state.
- Feb 26th the first case of a patient with no travel history nor contact with an infected person gets the virus. 1st suspected local transmission in the US.
- 1st Us death was Feb 29th.
- March 11th all 50 states report at least one case.
- March 27th, US is the first country in the world to report 100,000 cases.
- April 2nd, the number is 245,193 with no sign of lessening. The doubling factor occurs within a few a days and with that bit of knowledge 2 more times and the US would have 1,000,000 cases.

With all of this knowledge, the US still has states that haven't invoked any regulations. They are leaving it up to the individual person, city, or county.

Today (Thursday) Georgia and Mississippi invoked the stay at home regulations and closed all but the essential businesses. Florida did it yesterday (Wednesday). Florida Governor said nobody from the federal task force had told him to do it. However, all of these yo-yo governors excepted the attendance to church where they can crowd into row after row of pews, which will completely wipe out any slowdown the other regs. might have been accomplishing. Tampa had 1 church gathering last Sunday of over 500 people.

Last brain shaker, the Georgia Governor said he had just been made aware that asymptomatic people can transmit the virus. That information has been available for weeks!!!!! Maybe a guy who has the huge responsibility to keep his state safe should make it a point to stay up on the latest minute to minute updates. When you don't believe it I guess this is what happens:

- Florida has moved up to #6 with 9,008 virus cases and 144 deaths.

- Georgia has quietly climbed to #11 with 5,444 cases and 176 dead.

- Mississippi had 6 cases on March 13th. The Governor returned from SPAIN that same day where his daughter was participating in a soccer tournament. SPAIN!?!? Madrid has turned an ice rink into a morgue because it's cold.
Today Mississippi has 1,177 cases and 26 dead. These 3 states are seeing their curve rocket straight up with no sign of an apex.

I hope your provincial leaders are doing their job so that you don't see this same kind of sudden bursts that go totally out of control. Please do all you can to stay safe!

 

[Bad Goalie]

There just isn’t enough supply here for them to tell everyone to wear masks. They are struggling to supply all the essential workers who obviously should come first.

Correct, my friend.

 

[VanJack]

What chokes me up every time I read it on CNN, is news of of the death of another front-line health-care worker, whether it be a doctor, a nurse or an orderly. It's being repeated in almost every major U.S. City now.

These are everyday heroes who go about their work in hospitals stretched to the limit, without proper equipment, ventilators or even masks. And the machine of government seems powerless to help them.

In essence these health care professionals are sacrificing their own health and even their own lives in some cases, to save as many as possible.

I hope when this nightmare is over, they erect a statue in their honor in every major city.....and that a generation of young Americans will dedicate themselves to careers in medicine, nursing and health care. And that others will mobilize to work for non-profits, homeless shelters, poverty programs and other social issues--causes that President Lyndon Johnston once proclaimed were an integral part of "The Great Society".

 

[Jack Burton]

Please peeps...these next 3-4 weeks are critical. Do your part and wash your hands, self isolate and just try to be responsible.

We're all in this together

 

[ChilliBilly]

In the last 48 hours, Canada's deaths per million went from 3 to 5. Sadly. The US went from 15 to 18. We are doing a better job, but hang on to your panties, this about to get real.

And I believe China is lying about its numbers, and that India will lead the world in fatalities. This f***ing thing is going to kill a lot of people before its done.

Damn, I miss hockey. (and golf and pickle ball and drinking with friends) But Its going to be a year before things are close to normal. This the worst event in 100 years.

Be smart. Be safe. And FFS protect others as well as your self. Stay the f*** away.

 

[F A N]

Please peeps...these next 3-4 weeks are critical. Do your part and wash your hands, self isolate and just try to be responsible.

We're all in this together

Backyard beer party over an open fire anyone?

 

[Frostage]

And I believe China is lying about its numbers, and that India will lead the world in fatalities. This f***ing thing is going to kill a lot of people before its done.

Probably

I live in China and it is interesting

Everything is pretty normal. Most businesses and restaurants are open. Some restaurants and bars will only take smaller numbers. The touristy spots have been closed again.

The big thing is the schools. They are still closed. I wonder when they will re-open. Now the schools are run by each province and some are open but those that are had very few cases (like Tibet which had one I believe).

The other thing is patients testing positive again after testing negative and discharged. That and mutation are worrisome.

Not too mention the idiocy and general lack of preparedness in most of the West.



The arguments against masks are laughable. I understand there isn't enough PPE for hospital workers and such they should get priority but to think a barrier against an airborne illness wouldn't help is incorrect. Evidence shows that homemade ones such as bandanas have some positive affects.

You guys seem to be about 3 months or so behind China. Hopefully everything settles down but stay vigilant.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Well f***. My twin brother lives in Sydney australia, and he's been sick for a week. The symptoms are headed in the wrong direction. This sucks all the way around. Will find out in 2 or 3 days. stay safe everyone, and take this shit seriously.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

In the last 48 hours, Canada's deaths per million went from 3 to 5. Sadly. The US went from 15 to 18. We are doing a better job, but hang on to your panties, this about to get real.

And I believe China is lying about its numbers, and that India will lead the world in fatalities. This f***ing thing is going to kill a lot of people before its done.

Damn, I miss hockey. (and golf and pickle ball and drinking with friends) But Its going to be a year before things are close to normal. This the worst event in 100 years.

Be smart. Be safe. And FFS protect others as well as your self. Stay the f*** away.

But Its going to be a year before things are close to normal TRUE


The thought of this getting better by end of May or these moving hopeful deadlines is ridiculous.

It's going to be a long haul.

Prayers for your brother.

 

[Ita]

The data I've seen indicates that, in a vacuum if used properly, there is a small decrease in risk by using a mask. And this is far moreso in terms of people who are sick not spreading it rather than the masks protecting people who are healthy.

Would you provide sources for these studies which show that it only results in a small decrease? Guessing it might be these ones?
Effectiveness of personal protective measures in reducing pandemic influenza transmission: A systematic review and meta-analysis - ScienceDirect
Surgical mask to prevent influenza transmission in households: a cluster randomized trial. - PubMed - NCBI

The inconsistency of randomized trials does not negate the robust physical evidence that masks block respiratory droplets and microbes. Rather, these trials underscore that the efficacy of a mask depends on how it is used. In a study of 143 households in Sydney, people who diligently wore surgical masks as instructed reduced their daily risk of respiratory infection by an estimated 60 to 80 percent, but fewer than half the participants kept up the demanding routine.

Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households
This study shows people who diligently wore surgical masks as instructed reduced their daily risk of respiratory infection by an estimated 60 to 80 percent, but fewer than half the participants kept up the demanding routine.

1) As mentioned, we've seen what happened to TP and sanitizer in the last month. The last thing we need is idiots hording medical suppliers that are needed for heath care workers.

So are you implying it's a matter of supply, not whether masks are a good way to protect the population?

2) Masks need to be used properly. They're only good for a short period of time and don't do anything if you keep adjusting them or touching your face. So if you're re-using a mask or constantly adjusting it, the risks might actually go up.

People can be taught how to wear masks properly. Just like I imagine most people didn't or were even aware that they need to wash their hands for 20 seconds before this pandemic.

3) Masks can give a false sense of security. If the mask itself makes you 5% safer but you engage in 10% more risky activity because you think it's totally safe to go shopping more often (or whatever) because you're protected now by a mask … the mask has actually made things more dangerous.

Another frequently used conjecture but is there an actual study on the actual impact on this false sense of security?
________

There's a bunch of stuff on the internet to the extent of 'Asian countries wear masks and have lower growth rates, so masks must work!' but that's basically a study in people not understanding correlation vs. causation.

It's superficial to dismiss these ideas with the correlation vs. causation cliche without actual analysis of the underlying factors.

And we see similar good results in Scandinavian countries, where they aren't wearing masks.

This is the biggest offence I have from your post. SE Asian countries that are right next to the epicentre have significantly lower total cases/ 1M and much lower growth rates. These Scandanavian countries are not way comparable using any metrics. To suggest that they are getting "good results" is a completely false and misleading narrative.


Masks reduce the risks of infected patients spreading the virus and not by a small amount. "By design, a facemask with sufficiently high filtering efficiency can act as a passive barrier to stop infected individuals from spreading pathogens through droplets or aerosol from talking, coughing or sneezing, and they can reduce fomite transmission by reducing the chance of people spreading their body fluids after touching their nose or mouth. "

As for protection against the virus, "Trial evidence in the general population is, however, more limited, because it is practically challenging to carry out and there is high risk of non-compliance and cross-contamination". However, there was a study which showed that for SARs, masks resulted in a >60% of contracting the disease.


Please see the source I provided. These are real, medical professionals and not pro anti-vaxxer wackjobs" doctors".
COVID-19 epidemic: disentangling the re-emerging controversy about medical facemasks from an epidemiological perspective

 

[MS]

Would you provide sources for these studies which show that it only results in a small decrease? Guessing it might be these ones?
Effectiveness of personal protective measures in reducing pandemic influenza transmission: A systematic review and meta-analysis - ScienceDirect
Surgical mask to prevent influenza transmission in households: a cluster randomized trial. - PubMed - NCBI

The inconsistency of randomized trials does not negate the robust physical evidence that masks block respiratory droplets and microbes. Rather, these trials underscore that the efficacy of a mask depends on how it is used. In a study of 143 households in Sydney, people who diligently wore surgical masks as instructed reduced their daily risk of respiratory infection by an estimated 60 to 80 percent, but fewer than half the participants kept up the demanding routine.

Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households
This study shows people who diligently wore surgical masks as instructed reduced their daily risk of respiratory infection by an estimated 60 to 80 percent, but fewer than half the participants kept up the demanding routine.


So are you implying it's a matter of supply, not whether masks are a good way to protect the population?



People can be taught how to wear masks properly. Just like I imagine most people didn't or were even aware that they need to wash their hands for 20 seconds before this pandemic.



Another frequently used conjecture but is there an actual study on the actual impact on this false sense of security?
________



It's superficial to dismiss these ideas with the correlation vs. causation cliche without actual analysis of the underlying factors.



This is the biggest offence I have from your post. SE Asian countries that are right next to the epicentre have significantly lower total cases/ 1M and much lower growth rates. These Scandanavian countries are not way comparable using any metrics. To suggest that they are getting "good results" is a completely false and misleading narrative.


Masks reduce the risks of infected patients spreading the virus and not by a small amount. "By design, a facemask with sufficiently high filtering efficiency can act as a passive barrier to stop infected individuals from spreading pathogens through droplets or aerosol from talking, coughing or sneezing, and they can reduce fomite transmission by reducing the chance of people spreading their body fluids after touching their nose or mouth. "

As for protection against the virus, "Trial evidence in the general population is, however, more limited, because it is practically challenging to carry out and there is high risk of non-compliance and cross-contamination". However, there was a study which showed that for SARs, masks resulted in a >60% of contracting the disease.


Please see the source I provided. These are real, medical professionals and not pro anti-vaxxer wackjobs" doctors".
COVID-19 epidemic: disentangling the re-emerging controversy about medical facemasks from an epidemiological perspective

I'm not sure why you have such stank on your post. My original post was just trying to have a balanced take on things.

I'm willing to grant that the impact of surgical masks is higher than what my original post indicated, when I was looking at the impact of simpler cloth masks. But again, it simply isn't feasible to take medical supplies away from front-line medical personnel, so this is kind of a pointless argument.

And I disagree that it's easy to train people to use masks properly. It's been difficult to get anyone to do anything properly in this whole thing. What percentage of people do you think are *actually* correctly washing their hands consistently, at the correct times, for 20+ seconds a pop? Like, I'm trying to do the right things and I'm definitely washing my hands far more than I was ... but I'll admit that, out of habit, I find it very difficult unless I'm actively thinking about it to break my lifelong pattern of 5-10 second hand washes.

And yes, it is incredibly dangerous to just look at the raw numbers from a place like Taiwan in a vacuum and say 'Look at what the masks are doing!' Like, Singapore is also a mask-wearing country and their infection rate is 15x higher than Taiwan (and, actually, fascinatingly identical to BC) so it should be pretty obvious that there's more at play than just 'MASKS!' These countries were caught with their pants down by SARS and have spent 15 years putting in a massive infrastructure and planning process to deal with another pandemic, and their level of preparation (and public buy-in) was completely different from anywhere else in the world.

 

[Hit the post]

And yes, it is incredibly dangerous to just look at the raw numbers from a place like Taiwan in a vacuum and say 'Look at what the masks are doing!' Like, Singapore is also a mask-wearing country and their infection rate is 15x higher than Taiwan (and, actually, fascinatingly identical to BC) so it should be pretty obvious that there's more at play than just 'MASKS!' These countries were caught with their pants down by SARS and have spent 15 years putting in a massive infrastructure and planning process to deal with another pandemic, and their level of preparation (and public buy-in) was completely different from anywhere else in the world.

I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading that one of the ways they tracked people who were infected was to use their cell phones to see where they went over a given period of time (and sent out warnings to those people in that area). I doubt that kind of "Eye in the Sky" would fly south of us (heck, probably not in some parts here).

 

[MS]

Am I recommending you play a round of golf? Of course not. I consider that an unnecessary risk too.

If you were in Yellowknife your backyard party would be against government recommendations. All public gatherings of any size are cancelled which include "House parties or get-togethers of any size."

What you are comfortable with is irrelevant to the discussion. Nobody cares if you're comfortable taking a sauna in a packed sauna room.

Backyard beer party over an open fire anyone?

You really are a piece of work. 2 people standing 12-15 feet apart = backyard party. Sure thing. It's good to see that your ability to invent and attack strawmen isn't limited to just hockey.

Your logic can be applied to literally anyone leaving their house.

You went for a small walk around your block by yourself? How dare you! What happens when you pass someone going the other direction? What if you shoe comes untied and you lean against a telephone pole to fix it, and someone else comes along and touches that same pole? Huh? What if you roll an ankle or get hit by a car and force a strain on our emergency services?

Again, we're in a place where the government allows you to play a round of golf with a friend or allows 50 people at a time into a Home Depot to buy supplies for their home reno projects while they've got more time now. In the context of where we are, the risks associated with having 2 people stand 15 feet apart outdoors are non-existent and not contrary to any social distancing protocols.

And I think we both know that your responses have nothing to do with the content of my posts and everything to do with who is posting it.

 

[MS]

I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading that one of the ways they tracked people who were infected was to use their cell phones to see where they went over a given period of time (and sent out warnings to those people in that area). I doubt that kind of "Eye in the Sky" would fly south of us (heck, probably not in some parts here).

Absolutely, there are things you can do in other countries that you just can't do here.

Like, we could theoretically have enforced quarantines on everyone returning to Canada through that method and it would probably have made a big difference in the early going ... but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be legal and the outrage would have been massive.

 

[m9]

I'm not sure why you have such stank on your post. My original post was just trying to have a balanced take on things.

I'm willing to grant that the impact of surgical masks is higher than what my original post indicated, when I was looking at the impact of simpler cloth masks. But again, it simply isn't feasible to take medical supplies away from front-line medical personnel, so this is kind of a pointless argument.

And I disagree that it's easy to train people to use masks properly. It's been difficult to get anyone to do anything properly in this whole thing. What percentage of people do you think are *actually* correctly washing their hands consistently, at the correct times, for 20+ seconds a pop? Like, I'm trying to do the right things and I'm definitely washing my hands far more than I was ... but I'll admit that, out of habit, I find it very difficult unless I'm actively thinking about it to break my lifelong pattern of 5-10 second hand washes.

And yes, it is incredibly dangerous to just look at the raw numbers from a place like Taiwan in a vacuum and say 'Look at what the masks are doing!' Like, Singapore is also a mask-wearing country and their infection rate is 15x higher than Taiwan (and, actually, fascinatingly identical to BC) so it should be pretty obvious that there's more at play than just 'MASKS!' These countries were caught with their pants down by SARS and have spent 15 years putting in a massive infrastructure and planning process to deal with another pandemic, and their level of preparation (and public buy-in) was completely different from anywhere else in the world.

You countered your own point by the end of your own paragraph. Putting on a mask is something new and it is easier for them to learn the correct method immediately than expecting someone to change a habit that they have done their entire life like washing their hands. It would not be difficult to get a 1-minute training video out to everyone if the country decided that they wanted to send that message. But since they don't want the public using masks, they won't get that message out.

The "you don't need a mask" message sent out by the government is the correct one right now, but only because of the supply issue. If supply wasn't an issue the government would be running a different message.

 

[MS]

You countered your own point by the end of your own paragraph. Putting on a mask is something new and it is easier for them to learn the correct method immediately than expecting someone to change a habit that they have done their entire life like washing their hands. It would not be difficult to get a 1-minute training video out to everyone if the country decided that they wanted to send that message. But since they don't want the public using masks, they won't get that message out.

The "you don't need a mask" message sent out by the government is the correct one right now, but only because of the supply issue. If supply wasn't an issue the government would be running a different message.

The big issue with masks are constantly adjusting them and touching your face. And we've seen how hard it is to break people of those sorts of automatic behaviours.

I agree that, in a world with infinite masks, we'd probably be getting advised to wear them.

That said, I'd be fascinated to see statistics how behaviour differs when people are supplied with masks operate with extra confidence as a result, and what percentage of any benefit is mitigated by extra risks which are taken. I have no idea what the results would be but, intuitively, some of any positive effect has to be cancelled out.

 

[m9]

The big issue with masks are constantly adjusting them and touching your face. And we've seen how hard it is to break people of those sorts of automatic behaviours.

I agree that, in a world with infinite masks, we'd probably be getting advised to wear them.

That said, I'd be fascinated to see statistics how behaviour differs when people are supplied with masks operate with extra confidence as a result, and what percentage of any benefit is mitigated by extra risks which are taken. I have no idea what the results would be but, intuitively, some of any positive effect has to be cancelled out.

For sure, though it's better for someone to touch the outside of their mask than touch their mouth if they are going to touch their face in an automated behavior anyway.

People do get used to wearing a respirator pretty quickly - I'm sure there are people reading this who wear one everyday for work and it doesn't take long to get used to it. Once you start getting into some of the other equipment like half-masks and full-face masks then contamination from taking them on and off and touching your face is a much bigger issue.

Agreed on your last point. I have no doubt people are out doing more than they need to because they feel safer with a mask. And when you're talking a homemade or cheap cotton mask that is absolute stupidity right now. Grab some sealed glasses/goggles and a good N95 respirator and you're probably just fine, but 99% of people don't do that.

 

[Kryten]

I’d bet that Canada, Germany, and or France come up with the first real vaccines and share the knowledge to the whole world. USofA will wait until a pharma company of theirs makes a slightly different patented vaccine priced up inline with their insurance pyramid scheme for its citizens

 

[ChilliBilly]

Hopefully, this country will learn that some things should be manufactured and sourced only in Canada.

The next battleground after this is freshwater. California is continuous running out of water and sooner or later they will find a way to take all the water we have up here.

Also the Northwest Passage will get more and more important as climate change accelerates.

nope. We have unlimited water supplies. And why would they go to Canada when it would be cheaper and easier to reroute water from either the great lakes or the columbia river. My father did a review of this 35 years ago when there were proposals to reroute part of the Fraser river ... he pointed out how do you get it past the Columbia that has twice as much water ....

 

[Bad Goalie]

113,704 NY State COVID cases.
69,000 in NYC.
3,565 dead.
Oneida County, Utica's county, has had 7 new cases since Friday. Total now is since the start is 86 with 2 deaths.
NY State is a war zone. My wife and I are hunkered down in our home/bunker. Our son delivered a large grocery order as we were running short since our shop in early March, the last time my wife and I were anywhere in public other than our yard.He and his wife were wearing masks, NY's latest recommendation, and gloves. They removed every item at the entrance to our garage, wiped the packaging down with disinfectant wipes, instructed us to wear masks and gloves and re-wipe the items as we unpacked them in the house, remove all packaging and repack them in our own food storage bags and and containers for the freezer, cupboards, and fridge, then discard every bag box and packaging in the garage trash and recycling. We're set for another while. Interesting the items you have trouble getting: bread flour, chicken breasts, bread, buttermilk, soft butter, frozen corn and peas, and dish washer packets.

Will you guys please do what you are told? The last thing you want to see is anything the likes of which Donald Trump is doing to our country. It boggles the mind how anyone with more than a 5-yr-old's brain can believe anything this snake oil salesman has to offer.

 

[Boose Brudreau]

113,704 NY State COVID cases.
69,000 in NYC.
3,565 dead.
Oneida County, Utica's county, has had 7 new cases since Friday. Total now is since the start is 86 with 2 deaths.
NY State is a war zone. My wife and i are hunkered down in our home/bunker. Our son delivered a large grocery order as we were running short since our shop in early March, the last time my wife and I were anywhere in public other than our yard.

Will you guys please do what you are told? The last thing you want to see is anything the likes of which Donald Trump is doing to our country. It boggles the mind how anyone with more than a 5-yr-old's brain can believe anything this snake oil salesman has to offer.

Stay safe BG

 

[Boose Brudreau]

113,704 NY State COVID cases.
69,000 in NYC.
3,565 dead.
Oneida County, Utica's county, has had 7 new cases since Friday. Total now is since the start is 86 with 2 deaths.
NY State is a war zone. My wife and i are hunkered down in our home/bunker. Our son delivered a large grocery order as we were running short since our shop in early March, the last time my wife and I were anywhere in public other than our yard.

Will you guys please do what you are told? The last thing you want to see is anything the likes of which Donald Trump is doing to our country. It boggles the mind how anyone with more than a 5-yr-old's brain can believe anything this snake oil salesman has to offer.

for what it's worth, we're hunkered down here too....25 minutes away from Rogers arena where no hockey gets played.

a few trips to the grocery store and thats it; people here are taking this seriously. a lot of catch with the kids; my 7 yr old daughter is becoming a solid hitter. i realized tonight, neither of them have been in a car for over three weeks. Pretty crazy times.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I think you can get a proper seal with a beard if you use vaseline, but I'm not 100%

You can't. You actually want an airtight seal with a respirator or mask you have to go clean shaven. I have a goatee and mustache and even that was problematic with a larger unit. Full beard? Forget it.

Also, holy shit BG. Stay safe, man.

 

[Ita]

I'm not sure why you have such stank on your post. My original post was just trying to have a balanced take on things.

That's your own problem, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for spreading misinformation at a time of crisis.

I'm willing to grant that the impact of surgical masks is higher than what my original post indicated, when I was looking at the impact of simpler cloth masks. But again, it simply isn't feasible to take medical supplies away from front-line medical personnel, so this is kind of a pointless argument.

You do realize there are people who can still acquire masks from overseas right..
And yes surgical masks work much better than you describe
Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks

And yes, it is incredibly dangerous to just look at the raw numbers from a place like Taiwan in a vacuum and say 'Look at what the masks are doing!' Like, Singapore is also a mask-wearing country and their infection rate is 15x higher than Taiwan

You seem to have conveniently moved the goal post and fail to come up with a rebuttal to your Scandinavian countries doing "well" assertion. I will let that pass I guess.

Anyways your comment about Singapore just shows how ignorant you are about the situations in Asia. Are you assuming all the "Asian countries" are acting and behaving the same way? The prevalence and usage of masks are not the same in these Asian countries and they are not a homogenous entity.

https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=c0c50a384ef3801b3e7225e04c8eba29&oe=5EB0E0FB
https://scontent.fykz1-1.fna.fbcdn....=75bfb7540a7902142e2fd42101abe260&oe=5EAEFAB2

These are pictures taken in Singapore on March 28th. The Asian countries where most if not all of its population are wearing masks are Taiwan, China, Hong Kong and South Korea. Even Japan with its low number of cases, doesn't have widespread usage of masks partly due to supply issues. (See I don't cherry pick stats to support my argument). This would also be due to Japan's low number of tests as well.

(and, actually, fascinatingly identical to BC) so it should be pretty obvious that there's more at play than just 'MASKS!' These countries were caught with their pants down by SARS and have spent 15 years putting in a massive infrastructure and planning process to deal with another pandemic, and their level of preparation (and public buy-in) was completely different from anywhere else in the world.

So 260/1M (BC) is "identical" to 224/1M (Singapore)? That's like saying a 60p player is identical to a 70p player just because the difference is 16%. Very creative usage of that word.

The population density in Singapore is 8,358 per KM^2 vs 5.02 per KM^2 in BC. So a country with a far denser population, with limited usage of masks, is still doing better than BC by a wide margin.

(I am guessing you might argue that most of BC's population are centred around GVR.. I am going to save you the trouble by telling you Singapore still has a significantly higher population density.)