The Coaching Thread

[Habssince89]

I know MT and his methods have been discussed elsewhere but I figured I'd start this thread.

Here are the questions I'm proposing:

1.Will MT be extended? If so, how long?

2. a)If he is, will we continue to be a playoff team and will it hurt or help our youth development?
b)If he is not, who will be the likely candidates to replace him?

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My take:

Therrien IMO was a good choice at the time for the HC position. He has a track record of working well with youth and he likes to play a grittier, more aggressive game; something the Habs are looking to embrace in the Bergevin era.

His first year ended with regular season success, however I felt the meltdown in the playoffs occurred (among other reasons) because he refused to adjust, he was unable to manage the media circus and he let our players fall into the trap of fighting/gong show hockey.

While I think his approach to the game philosophically (seen through his speeches and actions on 24CH,etc) was very good for the youth to understand how to play hard and stand up for themselves, his most glaring flaw is his mismanagement of icetime, stubbornly playing favourites and a refusal/inability to adjust in-game.


1.Will MT be extended? If so, how long?

He will be (much to the chagrin of many fans - including myself) unless we have an extremely low finish. I think Bergevin would need to have both several good candidates that would want to come here, and a clear indication that MT is hurting more than helping in order to fire MT. MB's preaching of patience would indicate that he'd be hesitant to fire the guy he brought in after only 2 seasons, especially if we make the playoffs again (which is more likely than unlikely IMO).

I think he'll be extended for 2 more years, 3 tops (depending on how we do this year). If we win even one round in the playoffs he's a lock to come back.

2. a)If he is, will we continue to be a playoff team and will it hurt or help our youth development?
I think it will hurt their development if he can't give them the minutes. It seems he may be forced into using our young guns with the likely departures of Gionta and Boullion. But even if they go, we're stuck with DD, who is causing lots of problems in the logjam in the forward group, as well as underpreforming on the ice. We can only hope the EGG line forces his hand into promoting them to the official 2nd line, but MTs stubborness makes me think he'll resist, stunting their growth.

The blueline might be a different story. To me it looks like Tinordi has proven he belongs in the NHL as at least a #6. There's no going back to the Bulldogs for him IMO. We have a few UFAs to take care of, but there might be more room for him to use the youth on the blueline, depending on the moves MB makes.

b)If he is not, who will be the likely candidates to replace him?
No idea, this is why I started the thread

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Feel free to discuss these questions and anything else coaching related.

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[WhiskeySeven*]

Guy Boucher is casually petting his white long-haired cat.

 

[Habssince89]

Guy Boucher is casually petting his white long-haired cat.

In a hollowed out volcano.

 

[habtastic]

I think people are crapping on MT wayyy more than deserved.

Absolutely there are things I would have changed, such as DD not out in the last minute, but:

- While Subban should be on the PK, we didn't do horribly. Yes, Price bailed us out (though many refuse to believe that), but we did pretty well IMO. The 5 on 3 goal was basically JVR screwing up his pass (similar to Raymond getting that lucky bounce). Also, what Habs-Leafs game doesn't get impacted with some good ol 5 on 3 for the Leafs?

- He did in all fairness double shift Eller. I totally agree that DD was puke, but it's the first game and I don't mind him trying to give that line a chance to click. If Patches had scored on that one timer, we might not be as critical. Now, if MT refuses to hold DD accountable, that will be symptomatic of a bad coach. I thought DD looked good in the preseason, so, eh, I can see why (except for the last minute) he put DD out there. Gotta remember that it's more that he's putting Patches and Briere out there, who were limited in ice time due to so many penalties. (I think he's trying to get them going 5 on 5, not just PP)

- We took way too many penalties and really the game was a lot of great luck for the leafs. Who would have thought that in a game where we beat the crap out of the big bad leafs 4 times (possibly more), that our guy gets carried out on a stretcher?! I don't think there were too many in-game adjustment opportunities (save DD) + it's the first game...need to evaluate.

He better treat DD the way he did Eller (not that I agreed with it last season). I do think he's a very capable coach with not a lot to work with. Markov screwed us and cube played the 2 on 1 correctly. Until Emelin went down, he was up for the Jack Adams and nobody was complaining about him then. Lose one game due to bad luck = worst coach ever. Let's see where we are in 10 games.

 

[hvac412]

great thread,great responces,too funny.

 

[Habssince89]

I think people are crapping on MT wayyy more than deserved.

Absolutely there are things I would have changed, such as DD not out in the last minute, but:

- While Subban should be on the PK, we didn't do horribly. Yes, Price bailed us out (though many refuse to believe that), but we did pretty well IMO. The 5 on 3 goal was basically JVR screwing up his pass (similar to Raymond getting that lucky bounce). Also, what Habs-Leafs game doesn't get impacted with some good ol 5 on 3 for the Leafs?

- He did in all fairness double shift Eller. I totally agree that DD was puke, but it's the first game and I don't mind him trying to give that line a chance to click. If Patches had scored on that one timer, we might not be as critical. Now, if MT refuses to hold DD accountable, that will be symptomatic of a bad coach. I thought DD looked good in the preseason, so, eh, I can see why (except for the last minute) he put DD out there. Gotta remember that it's more that he's putting Patches and Briere out there, who were limited in ice time due to so many penalties. (I think he's trying to get them going 5 on 5, not just PP)

- We took way too many penalties and really the game was a lot of great luck for the leafs. Who would have thought that in a game where we beat the crap out of the big bad leafs 4 times (possibly more), that our guy gets carried out on a stretcher?! I don't think there were too many in-game adjustment opportunities (save DD) + it's the first game...need to evaluate.

He better treat DD the way he did Eller (not that I agreed with it last season). I do think he's a very capable coach with not a lot to work with. Markov screwed us and cube played the 2 on 1 correctly. Until Emelin went down, he was up for the Jack Adams and nobody was complaining about him then. Lose one game due to bad luck = worst coach ever. Let's see where we are in 10 games.

Very interesting take on opening night. You do make a lot of good points, especially that the DD line was hindered by us being on the PK for a large portion of the game. You have seemed to articulate MTs way of thinking well, though even with that insight I still disagree with his decisions.

He needed to play the hot hand. Every game is important and this year Ws matter more than ever. I think giving the DD line time to click was a luxury we couldn't afford, especially after we lost the lead and had pacioretty hurting. He should've leaned on the EGG line. But whatever, the game is long over.

About the PK: it's the principle that our best player (Subban) needs to play in all situations because he has both the ability to dominate in all zones and he has amazing conditioning. Hopefully Subban's TOI goes up, it only makes sense.

Anyway, great post. Way to play Devil's advocate well.

 

[habs03]

He was given a 3 year deal, he is very unlikely to be fired this year, so look for him to get a contract ext during the summer. Very few GM let a head coach, coach a team with just 1 year left on his deal, Burke gave Wilson an extra year on his deal just before firing him. Noel with the jets got 1 extra year add onto his his final year on his current deal.

I think Bergevin will give MT an extention next summer, but for 1, 2 years max.

With that said, I don't think MT is going to be the coach when Bergevin thinks the team is ready to take it to the next level. Kinda sucks for MT, but that's what happened in Pitts, MT went in their and helped those young guys grow and changed the culture, but team needed someone else to take them to cup, even tho MT deserve a lot of credit for the Pens willing the cup the year he was fired.

As to who would replace him, I would love Guy Boucher, his intensity would be great, I think the stint with the Bolts is going to make him a better coach. Plus he has a good history with Patches, Subban.

Man Guy would have Subban playing 30 mins a game, and you know Subban can handle those minutes.

 

[Habssince89]

He was given a 3 year deal, he is very unlikely to be fired this year, so look for him to get a contract ext during the summer. Very few GM let a head coach, coach a team with just 1 year left on his deal, Burke gave Wilson an extra year on his deal just before firing him. Noel with the jets got 1 extra year add onto his his final year on his current deal.

I think Bergevin will give MT an extention next summer, but for 1, 2 years max.

With that said, I don't think MT is going to be the coach when Bergevin thinks the team is ready to take it to the next level. Kinda sucks for MT, but that's what happened in Pitts, MT went in their and helped those young guys grow and changed the culture, but team needed someone else to take them to cup, even tho MT deserve a lot of credit for the Pens willing the cup the year he was fired.

As to who would replace him, I would love Guy Boucher, his intensity would be great, I think the stint with the Bolts is going to make him a better coach. Plus he has a good history with Patches, Subban.

Man Guy would have Subban playing 30 mins a game, and you know Subban can handle those minutes.

What I bolded is very true. MTs job is to transition the youth into the NHL and guide the team through MBs culture change. I agree that he likely will be replaced when MB feels we have properly entered a legitimate contending window.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Therrien signed only a 2 year deal. I remember thinking how odd that seemed.

 

[habs03]

What I bolded is very true. MTs job is to transition the youth into the NHL and guide the team through MBs culture change. I agree that he likely will be replaced when MB feels we have properly entered a legitimate contending window.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Therrien signed only a 2 year deal. I remember thinking how odd that seemed.

I think that was the rumour when news came out that MT was hired, but I remember Tony Marinaro saying that MT told him he got a 3 year deal right after the press conference of MT hiring. I know Tony is a tool most times, but see no reason to not believe him with something like that.

 

[Habssince89]

I think that was the rumour when news came out that MT was hired, but I remember Tony Marinaro saying that MT told him he got a 3 year deal right after the press conference of MT hiring. I know Tony is a tool most times, but see no reason to not believe him with something like that.

I think either way (whether it's this summer or next) what we're saying is accurate about him being gone.

If you're right, then perhaps it could be a better situation. If MT brings success, then we have nothing to worry about. If he struggles, we have more time to evaluate both him and possible replacements. A two-year deal might result in a three year extension, which could become bad (Up to 5 years of MT), whereas a 3 year deal might be long enough to properly see what MT can do without re-signing him prematurely.

 

[poetryinmotion]

Bergevin is a stubborn man and he will not let go of his coach after only 2 years. Only next season will he start to be under the microscope, but only if we don't do so hot this year.

 

[68*]

Therrien's Temper ‏@AngryMichel 1 Oct
****ing right! da fire in my hand
Expand

 

[habs03]

I think either way (whether it's this summer or next) what we're saying is accurate about him being gone.

If you're right, then perhaps it could be a better situation. If MT brings success, then we have nothing to worry about. If he struggles, we have more time to evaluate both him and possible replacements. A two-year deal might result in a three year extension, which could become bad (Up to 5 years of MT), whereas a 3 year deal might be long enough to properly see what MT can do without re-signing him prematurely.

The contract thing is almost a none factor, specially with teams with money. Like I said, very few GM let a coach go into a season with only 1 year left on the deal. Maybe it's an a gentlemen a agreement or wtv, but you see it a lot, even with coaches the GM doesn't think he'll keep long term.

Noel from the jets got 1 year extra on his deal this summer for the 2014-15 and he is in the hot seat. Last year, I believe Quennville was his last year of the deal, and Bowman wasn't sure if he was going to bring him back or not, and when they decided to keep him, they gave him an extra year in the summer aswell, to see how he would do...they went on to win the cup, so will, or I think he already got another contract extension, a longer though.

Like I said, look for MT to get 1,2 more years on his deal this summer, yet still be gone maybe even before it kicks in..

But that's just how it is, very few coaches last long in the NHL now a days, I think the average life span for a coach is like 2 1/2 years...

 

[habs03]

Therrien's Temper ‏@AngryMichel 1 Oct
****ing right! da fire in my hand
Expand

Lmao

Man watching MT is pure jokes during games in heated moments, he doesn't want to lose his cool, like he would back in the days so he tries to keep it in so much, I can't believe but laugh, his face just goes red, it's like he wants to go nuts, but he somehow holds himself back ahahha

That and if you ever see his news conferences, he always laughs his ass off from his only jokes which aren't really funny..lol

 

[Hackett]

I remember how poor the coaching candidate pool appeared to be in terms of established coaches when the habs were conducting their search. I said back then, and I maintain it today, that MT is a short term type of coach. Whether he gets a new contact or not, I'd be very surprised if he lasted 4 seasons.