The CHL Rule Discussion Thread

[Habs Halifax]

It would create more competition for sure, it would probably benefit the draft as well because the younger kids from the CHL who could hang with the handful of older kids would definitely be noticed and make the ranking in the first few rounds more clear (among CHLers).

This might fix the issue with less impact? Who cares about the ECHL?

CHL
- Age 16 to 22
- Each team is allowed 6 overage players from 20-22
- Players 16 or 17 only make it if they show ability to handle it.
- Players age 15 don't make it unless they are exceptional status.
- MAAA gets to be stronger competition across Canada for players under 15-18 range. This is a good thing IMO.

AHL
- No big changes.
- Let the NHL teams decide on where their 20-22 players play
- Let some of the undrafted players (age 20-25) either try to get AHL contracts or play CHL until 22.
- This means less players to play ECHL cause they either play AHL or CHL.

ECHL
- This is the league that takes the biggest hit. Would this be major impact? Don't think so.

Change the CHL to be a 18-22 development league. 16/17 year old players who only good enough get to play CHL. Players who are too good (NHL drafted talent) from age 20+ get to play AHL like it is now. Players from 20-22 who are not good enough for AHL get to play CHL and they improve the competition for 18 and 19 year olds

 

[ottawa]

This might fix the issue with less impact? Who cares about the ECHL?

CHL
- Age 16 to 22
- Each team is allowed 6 overage players from 20-22
- Players 16 or 17 only make it if they show ability to handle it.
- Players age 15 don't make it unless they are exceptional status.
- MAAA gets to be stronger competition across Canada for players under 15-18 range.

AHL
- No changes.
- Let the NHL teams decide on where their 20-22 players play
- Let some of the undrafted players (age 20-25) either try to get AHL contracts or play CHL until 22.
- This means less players to play ECHL cause they either play AHL or CHL.

ECHL
- This is the league that takes the biggest hit. Would this be major impact? Don't think so.

Don't we only have 2 Canadian teams, one of them being Brampton?

I think ECHL can take a hit...and if they can't well then they could end their contracts with Canadian teams. Is there any organization that is in charge of protecting Canadian hockey leagues as a whole (including the ECHL)

 

[NotProkofievian]

Don't we only have 2 Canadian teams, one of them being Brampton?

I think ECHL can take a hit...and if they can't well then they could end their contracts with Canadian teams. Is there any organization that is in charge of protecting Canadian hockey leagues as a whole (including the ECHL)

No, not a Canadian one at least. No professional team is a Hockey Canada member, nor is the CHL (they and Usports are non-member partners). The absurdity of the situation runs deep. Every nation has some sovereign league beyond the U20 level, in which their citizens are allowed to participate in an unrestricted fashion. Except us.

All so some small town millionaires can stay afloat.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No, not a Canadian one at least. No professional team is a Hockey Canada member, nor is the CHL (they and Usports are non-member partners). The absurdity of the situation runs deep. Every nation has some sovereign league beyond the U20 level, in which their citizens are allowed to participate in an unrestricted fashion. Except us.

All so some small town millionaires can stay afloat.

Why not just open the age limit to 22 in the CHL where each team can have 6 overage players from 20-22? This arguably makes the CHL more competitive and stronger and creates a better development situation for 18 and 19 year olds. Players who are 16 or 17 only make the CHL if they are strong and good enough to play against players 18-22 range. The CHL is changed from a 16-19 development league to a 18-20 development league (with some exceptions here and there depending on talent level).

I think the ECHL is the league that gets hit the hardest but who cares really about that league?

Players like Asselin get to play in the Q up intil the age of 22 vs ECHL after this season?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Why not just open the age limit to 22 in the CHL where each team can have 6 overage players from 20-22? This arguably makes the CHL more competitive and stronger and creates a better development situation for 18 and 19 year olds. Players who are 16 or 17 only make the CHL if they are strong and good enough to play against players 18-22 range. The CHL is changed from a 16-19 development league to a 18-20 development league (with some exceptions here and there depending on talent level).

I think the ECHL is the league that gets hit the hardest but who cares really about that league?

Players like Asselin get to play in the Q up intil the age of 22 vs ECHL after this season?

My guess would be that players who are 20 would prefer to go to a league in which they'd get paid or cash in their scholarship to go to university. The CHL would have to become a pro league otherwise the players would ask themselves the question ''what am I doing with my life?'' But the league can't sustain itself as a pro league as it stands because they're reliant on basically slave labour.

 

[Habs Halifax]

My guess would be that players who are 20 would prefer to go to a league in which they'd get paid or cash in their scholarship to go to university. The CHL would have to become a pro league otherwise the players would ask themselves the question ''what am I doing with my life?'' But the league can't sustain itself as a pro league as it stands because they're reliant on basically slave labour.

Allow the overage players from 20-22 to get paid in the CHL? That would be only 6 players per team and the level of play is that much better so the CHL teams could raise prices slightly to cover the extra costs.

I guess the CHL and differences between city markets is the issue. Some teams average 5,000+ per game and some are around 1,000-2,000 per game. What's the goal? To protect the small market CHL teams or to make the competition and development better? Priorities

Were talking about age 20-22 players like Asselin vs Zadina. Asselin is a good example... how much money could he make in the ECHL next year vs what a CHL team could pay him as a over ager from 20-22?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Allow the overage players from 20-22 to get paid in the CHL? That would be only 6 players per team and the level of play is that much better so the CHL teams could raise prices slightly to cover the extra costs.

I guess the CHL and differences between city markets is the issue. Some teams average 5,000+ per game and some are around 1,000-2,000 per game.

What's the goal? To protect the small market CHL teams or to make the competition and development better? Priorities

Were talking about age 20-22 players like Asselin vs Zadina. Asselin is a good example... how much money could he make in the ECHL next year vs what a CHL team could pay him as a over ager from 20-22?

A guy like Asselin would probably go to the AHL and make, what, 70 grand? So this new CHL would have to compete with that salary, otherwise the players would just go to the AHL. Obviously the CHL doesn't want that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

A guy like Asselin would probably go to the AHL and make, what, 70 grand? So this new CHL would have to compete with that salary, otherwise the players would just go to the AHL. Obviously the CHL doesn't want that.

Not sure if Asselin would make the AHL next year or ECHL. If each CHL team was allowed 6 overage players that they had to pay... that's what? $300k - $420k of extra money to fork out per year. There has already been talk about weather CHL players should be paid or not. Allowing 6 players from 20-22 who have to paid might solve the issue slightly

Then we ask.. what teams can afford this extra cost? What's the average attendance in the Q? About 2500 per game? Cost per ticket is like what? $25-$30 bucks? Lets say the minimum cost is changed to $30 bucks where you make $5 extra per ticket. That increases the revenue to about $100k - $200k per team so they would only be able to afford to pay those 6 overage players about $25k per year. What do ECHL players get paid?

It's not easy to make everybody happy I guess.

Canadian talent is spread out in 4 leagues throughout various cities.. .NHL, AHL, CHL, ECHL. Get rid of the ECHL and this might make the CHL a better development leauge for 18 and 19 year olds. 16 and 17 year olds play MAAA if they are not good enough and this also helps the development of players from 15-17 IMO.

Heck, we can also include the NCAA where Canadian talent is spread out even more. No other country has their talent spread out like this.

I think the ECHL is the problem.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Not sure if Asselin would make the AHL next year or ECHL. If each CHL team was allowed 6 overage players that they had to pay... that's what? $300k - $420k of extra money to fork out per year. There has already been talk about weather CHL players should be paid or not. Allowing 6 players from 20-22 who have to paid might solve the issue slightly

Then we ask.. what teams can afford this extra cost? What's the average attendance in the Q? About 2500 per game? Cost per ticket is like what? $25-$30 bucks? Lets say the minimum cost is changed to $30 bucks where you make $5 extra per ticket. That increases the revenue to about $100k - $200k per team so they would only be able to afford to pay those 6 overage players about $25k per year. What do ECHL players get paid?

It's not easy to make everybody happy I guess.

Canadian talent is spread out in 4 leagues throughout various cities.. .NHL, AHL, CHL, ECHL. Get rid of the ECHL and this might make the CHL a better development leauge for 18 and 19 year olds. 16 and 17 year olds play MAAA if they are not good enough and this also helps the development of players from 15-17 IMO.

Heck, we can also include the NCAA where Canadian talent is spread out even more. No other countries has their talent spread out like this.

And even more than that. Canadian talent has to go to Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, France, Finland, Russia, Kazakhstan to make a living if they're not good enough for the NHL. Well, Swedish talent that's not good enough for the NHL sometimes goes abroad but that's to find a better salary, not because they can't make a living. The option just doesn't exist for Canadians.

I think it's for the CHL to see how they'll survive. It's for Hockey Canada to concern itself with the development of Canadian talent. IMO, they should create two NTDP teams and that would force action from the CHL. They can make their choice: be a junior league or be a pro league.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And even more than that. Canadian talent has to go to Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, France, Finland, Russia, Kazakhstan to make a living if they're not good enough for the NHL. Well, Swedish talent that's not good enough for the NHL sometimes goes abroad but that's to find a better salary, not because they can't make a living. The option just doesn't exist for Canadians.

I think it's for the CHL to see how they'll survive. It's for Hockey Canada to concern itself with the development of Canadian talent. IMO, they should create two NTDP teams and that would force action from the CHL. They can make their choice: be a junior league or be a pro league.

It's kind of funny when you look at the Canadian struggles over the years (off and on). Remember the let our young kids be creative with less hitting talk a few years back? We stopped hitting at what level to allow young players to be more creative with more time and space? Europe went the opposite direction and they have their 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds playing in mens league with less time and space.

The best strategy is to be pro-active, not re-active. This is our issue and yes, I agree with you, we are not going to change until we fail and are forced to change. The CHL made it to the top of the mountain and are walking down the other side now still thinking they are at the top. Once they get to the bottom, that's when they will be all puzzled and say "what happened"?

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's kind of funny when you look at the Canadian struggles over the years (off and on). Remember the let our young kids be creative with less hitting talk a few years back? We stopped hitting at what level to allow young players to be more creative with more time and space? Europe went the opposite direction and they have their 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds playing in mens league with less time and space.

The best strategy is to be pro-active, not re-active. This is our issue and yes, I agree with you, we are not going to change until we fail and are forced to change. The CHL made it to the top of the mountain and are walking down the other side now still thinking they are at the top. Once they get to the bottom, that's when they will be all puzzled and say "what happened"?

Finland had to go through the same failure, but they at least had the plausible excuse of the ''lost decade'' in the wake of the collapse of their largest trading partner. We're just led by a bunch of elder statesmen besserwissers and two bit one horse town business interests. It's something I've noticed about Canada from being away for so long: nobody else in the world, even if they're smaller or more insignificant than Canada, has this attitude, and it permeates everything we do. We don't really want to be the best in the world at anything, not even the one thing we ought to be the best in the world at.

 

[montreal]

I don't mind this compensatory angle. It at least addresses the root issues. The NHL needs the CHL as a prime developmental league and the CHL needs fans to remain viable. And fans need to see the stars in order to pay the prices (averaging $25/game now). So the only model that works is one that addresses everyone's needs. Not just the whims of a few fans or GMs who want their players in the AHL.

It doesn't have anything to do with what a few NHL teams fans want, my thought would be that NHL GM's would prefer having a very select few play outside the CHL but not in the NHL but they don't have that option. So we would be talking 1 or 2 players per year perhaps. The NHL team could easily afford to pay a transfer fee based off a formula that involves ticket and merch loss. It would be best for the development of said player, the CHL team would get at least a decent or better compensation and it would open a few spots for bubble kids to make the CHL. I'm sure CHL teams wouldn't be thrilled with this but the NHL should at least look into the situation to see what can be done to help everyone involved.

 

[Sorinth]

I disagree. There are plenty of players that could easily slot into the AHL at 19. Players who are too good for CHL and not quite ready for prime time. in fact, I’d say some players who are 18-19 honto the nhl too soon because of this and they unfortunately can’t go to the AHL.

Suzuki has something like 12 or 14 points in his last 3 games. That’s not normal.

Being able to slot into the AHL isn't the same thing as being too good for the CHL.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

Where there is change their is opportunity. Young 16 and 17 year olds who can't handle it stay in the league before the CHL. This creates more competition across the board.

In your opinion, what is the point of the CHL? Is it a 16-19 year development league or a 18-20 development league? What would be the problem with expanding this to be a 18-22 development league? Top players who go undrafted get to keep playing until 22. Maybe open up the overage player limit to 6 players on each team from age 20-22.

The point here is to create more competition for the young elite level talent to develop from age 17-19. Players like Drouin who skates well have it far to easy in the CHL and this might be the issue. He needed to face more physical and mature players earlier in the process?

Who cares about the ECHL. Spread that talent in the AHL and the CHL.

The problem is the huge difference between 22 year olds and 18 year olds. Ever watch a pre tournament WJC game? Former mediocre CHL players in USports playing against the best of the best 18 and 19 year olds and they often beat them

 

[NotProkofievian]

The problem is the huge difference between 22 year olds and 18 year olds. Ever watch a pre tournament WJC game? Former mediocre CHL players in USports playing against the best of the best 18 and 19 year olds and they often beat them

Yep, and instead of our players constantly testing themselves against even this level of competition, they're locked into pointlessly dummying the same league over and over again.

 

[cphabs]

Our society is resistant to change due to impact. Good situations are created when you trip and fall into them. That is the human way. We only change when we are forced to change. We usually don't volunteer

LMAO!

 

[Sterling Archer]

Being able to slot into the AHL isn't the same thing as being too good for the CHL.

But they’re not mutually exclusive

 

[Sorinth]

But they’re not mutually exclusive

Agreed. There are probably quite a few CHL players that could play in the AHL and not be overwhelmed. That said for most of them I doubt it's best for their development to be playing in the AHL, even though they could play at that level they would be better served getting lots of minutes at a lower level.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Agreed. There are probably quite a few CHL players that could play in the AHL and not be overwhelmed. That said for most of them I doubt it's best for their development to be playing in the AHL, even though they could play at that level they would be better served getting lots of minutes at a lower level.

For sure. This isn’t for the majority of players but for a handful every year who are too good for the junior but can’t graduate to the AHL. Just think of all the junior players in Europe who play in men’s league instead of the junior teams. I really don’t see an issue for anyone other than the CHL losing star players before they want them to graduate. I liken it to Quebec having a cygep and other provinces don’t. It’s not like cygep stunts the growth of HSers. In fact, I’d say it’s the best system out there for preparing youths for university.

Glass, Frost, Suzuki etc. could easily be playing in the AHL right now and be better prepared for a life in the NHL sooner.

 

[calder candidate]

Agreed. There are probably quite a few CHL players that could play in the AHL and not be overwhelmed. That said for most of them I doubt it's best for their development to be playing in the AHL, even though they could play at that level they would be better served getting lots of minutes at a lower level.

Drafting a player in the round 1 or 2 should give the team the option to have them play in the AHL. That way they are more in control of there faith and progression isn’t being stall for a player that doesn’t have anything to learn in the CHL.

 

[Sorinth]

Drafting a player in the round 1 or 2 should give the team the option to have them play in the AHL. That way they are more in control of there faith and progression isn’t being stall for a player that doesn’t have anything to learn in the CHL.

Personally I doubt guys like Suzuki are having their development stalled by playing in the CHL.

 

[calder candidate]

Personally I doubt guys like Suzuki are having their development stalled by playing in the CHL.

Not Suzuki... but a team might want a player in the AHL vs. CHL

 

[montreal]

Personally I doubt guys like Suzuki are having their development stalled by playing in the CHL.

I don't think we can really know but after ripping up the OHL for 2 years at 17 and 18, it has to be tough mentally to keep your focus when you are now playing against younger players on average since he's in his age 19 season now. So the question becomes would it be better for him and a very select few that if they dominated the CHL for 2 years that they could be allowed to play in another league if they weren't NHL ready and if so how much would it actually benefit them to say play against older, bigger, quicker players.

 

[G0bias]

Personally I doubt guys like Suzuki are having their development stalled by playing in the CHL.

Not like he's really being challenged right now. We'll see how it goes in the playoffs. But do I think had he spent the year in Laval under Bouchard's tutelage or in the SHL, to work out the kinks in his game, we'd seen more progress? Yes, absolutely.

 

[covfefe]

I don't think we can really know but after ripping up the OHL for 2 years at 17 and 18, it has to be tough mentally to keep your focus when you are now playing against younger players on average since he's in his age 19 season now. So the question becomes would it be better for him and a very select few that if they dominated the CHL for 2 years that they could be allowed to play in another league if they weren't NHL ready and if so how much would it actually benefit them to say play against older, bigger, quicker players.

Exactly, it has less to do with “stalling” and more to do with progressing.