The Case for drafting Jonatan Berggren

[Rebels57]

Whenever a guy is ranked 32 and 38 by extremely reputable and intelligent guys like Craig Button and Bob McKenzie, taking Berggren at 14 wouldn't be off the board, it would be extremely terrible value. I suppose a case could be made for him at 19 although they could probably trade down and acquire more assets and still get him later.

So you think Button having Kravstov and Kupari at 28 and 29 in his mock is also accurate too right?

Noel and Wilde to the Flyers?

Button's mock f***ing sucks.

 

[TB87]

taking Berggren at 14 wouldn't be off the board, it would be extremely terrible value.

I guess you meant other people have been clamoring for 14? Either way, it's no big deal.

 

[The Madrigal]

Pretty safe to say that would prove my point quite emphatically that not everybody is buying the hype.

 

[Ruck Over]

Where did I say you said the Flyers should draft him at 14? I apologize if I didn't explain myself more clearly. Others have not only been advocating for Berggren at 14, but clamoring for it. Hence why I used the term "Berggren hype" earlier in the thread. I'm fine with Berggren at 19 depending on who else is the board, and if they moved down a few spots and took him all the better. Taking him at 14 would be ridiculous though and thankfully I know since Hextall's one major strength is the draft he won't do something as stupid as that.

Pretty sure the, on same page comment/happy with Berggren sentiment, was specific to the Flyers board, where he's generally considered a, happy to have drafted, prospect

 

[deadhead]

Whenever a guy is ranked 32 and 38 by extremely reputable and intelligent guys like Craig Button and Bob McKenzie, taking Berggren at 14 wouldn't be off the board, it would be extremely terrible value. I suppose a case could be made for him at 19 although they could probably trade down and acquire more assets and still get him later.

I don't think Hextall gives a rat's ass about where anyone ranks prospects, he will take into account where he thinks other teams might take a player, but it's obvious after the Frost/Schenn move, he has complete confidence in the consensus they reach on player value in their War Room. Because that trade was predicated on Frost being there at #27.

So if Ron takes Berggren at #14, given his track record, I have no problem.
Or if he trades down and nails him at #24.
Taking him earlier doesn't change his value so much as it reflects how Ron thought other teams might value him.

And if Ron doesn't try to get him, it says he didn't value him that highly.

 

[The Madrigal]

I guess you meant other people have been clamoring for 14? Either way, it's no big deal.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I appreciate your mature and rationale response. It's a breath of fresh air considering certain people have made a federal production out of me not loving Berggren as if I had insulted their first born child. The Berggren hype around here with certain people has become exponentially absurd.

 

[The Madrigal]

Pretty sure the, on same page comment/happy with Berggren sentiment, was specific to the Flyers board, where he's generally considered a, happy to have drafted, prospect

I'm on the Flyers board and I don't want Berggren at 19, let alone 14. So that would eliminate the notion that everybody is on board.

 

[The Madrigal]

I don't think Hextall gives a rat's ass about where anyone ranks prospects, he will take into account where he thinks other teams might take a player, but it's obvious after the Frost/Schenn move, he has complete confidence in the consensus they reach on player value in their War Room. Because that trade was predicated on Frost being there at #27.

So if Ron takes Berggren at #14, given his track record, I have no problem.
Or if he trades down and nails him at #24.
Taking him earlier doesn't change his value so much as it reflects how Ron thought other teams might value him.

And if Ron doesn't try to get him, it says he didn't value him that highly.

Thanks for the lecture. Can you tell me again how Erik Karlsson isn't a HOF level player?

 

[Alex K]

Good players fall in the draft all the time. Many GM's/scouts adhere to positional bias: Centers and Defenseman first, wingers second. Even if a winger is the better player. Team needs come into play big time in the draft. Konecny dropped to the 20's in the 2015 draft. He was probably a top 15 talent in that draft class.

I agree. Debrincat comes to mind. But I wouldn't focus on one particular player, who knows who will fall to us. I've read about so many great prospects recently, that I stopped favoriting anyone.)

 

[The Madrigal]

So you think Button having Kravstov and Kupari at 28 and 29 in his mock is also accurate too right?

Noel and Wilde to the Flyers?

Button's mock ****ing sucks.

About as accurate as Magua having Veleno 37 and Kupari 38, which I haven't heard you make mention of.

Not the point anyway, although I am sure you will continue to change the narrative and try to create an argument anyway. I said not everyone was buying the Berggren hype, and someone quoted me and said "YES THEY ARE" which I simply proved to be incorrect. I don't recall saying Button's Mock draft was great, just used it, and his rankings, and McKenzie's rankings as examples that not everyone thinks Berggren is worthy of an extremely high pick.

 

[The Madrigal]

I agree. Debrincat comes to mind. But I wouldn't focus on one particular player, who knows who will fall to us. I've read about so many great prospects recently, that I stopped favoriting anyone.)

Konecny and Debrincat fell because they are small. It happens all of the time to prospects like them.

 

[TB87]

I agree. Debrincat comes to mind. But I wouldn't focus on one particular player, who knows who will fall to us. I've read about so many great prospects recently, that I stopped favoriting anyone.)

Hmm. He was the focus of the article, so it'd make sense that I'd focus on him.

Other solid options in the 1st round: Miller, Lundkvist, Kaut, Bokk, Denisenko, Smith, Farabee, or Kravtsov (if they're available).

I have 100% certainity that Hextall isn't married to any one player right now.

 

[wasup]

YES THEY ARE

No we are not

 

[Ruck Over]

I'm on the Flyers board and I don't want Berggren at 19, let alone 14. So that would eliminate the notion that everybody is on board.

You and @wasup are the exceptions to the rule it appears.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Stop talking to the troll.

Dude would take a 60 year old transvestite at 14 if scouts said so.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-mock-draft-the-intrigue-starts-with-the-habs-1.1116064

Not a first round pick according to Craig Button's latest mock

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-bouchard-rocketing-up-draft-board-1.1031499

Ranked 32nd on Button's draft rankings

https://www.tsn.ca/kotkaniemi-surges-into-top-five-of-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1115400

38th in Bob McKenzie's final draft rankings

Was Frost on anyone's first round mock draft last year? Sometimes it is ok to roll the dice with a prospect with big upside.

 

[The Madrigal]

No we are not

 

[The Madrigal]

Was Frost on anyone's first round mock draft last year? Sometimes it is ok to roll the dice with a prospect with big upside.

Did the Flyers draft Frost at 14 or 27?

 

[wasup]

So you think Button having Kravstov and Kupari at 28 and 29 in his mock is also accurate too right?

Noel and Wilde to the Flyers?

Button's mock ****ing sucks.

Wow !!! a little while ago i commented that Button was just a TV personality with some knowledge and i just about got my head bit off telling me how great he is . Now he is a moron

 

[Young Sandwich]

Did the Flyers draft Frost at 14 or 27?

Would it have mattered at this point?

 

[The Madrigal]

Would it have mattered at this point?

Obviously Frost had a great year and raised his stock quite a bit, but perhaps he could play an NHL shift or two before we put him in the HOF and call him the greatest draft steal ever.

 

[Rebels57]

About as accurate as Magua having Veleno 37 and Kupari 38, which I haven't heard you make mention of.

Not the point anyway, although I am sure you will continue to change the narrative and try to create an argument anyway. I said not everyone was buying the Berggren hype, and someone quoted me and said "YES THEY ARE" which I simply proved to be incorrect. I don't recall saying Button's Mock draft was great, just used it, and his rankings, and McKenzie's rankings as examples that not everyone thinks Berggren is worthy of an extremely high pick.

That's because Magua's IS NOT A MOCK DRAFT.

It his own personal rankings based on who he thinks will be the best players.

This is why Button's Ranking list is always different than his Mock Draft too.

Understand now?

 

[Rebels57]

Wow !!! a little while ago i commented that Button was just a TV personality with some knowledge and i just about got my head bit off telling me how great he is . Now he is a moron

I actually like Button quite a bit. He is very knowledgeable and passionate. His mocks and rankings are usually pretty good. I just hate his Mock Draft this year. It seems very unrealistic, but hey, he is closer to the GMs than any of us are so maybe he talks to all of them ahead of time about certain guys and that causes them to drop in his Mock Draft?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Did the Flyers draft Frost at 14 or 27?

27 obviously. I dont think it would be a huge risk in taking a shot at him at 19 if he is on the board if Hextall really likes him. The Flyers rarely miss on 1st round picks.

 

[Young Sandwich]

Obviously Frost had a great year and raised his stock quite a bit, but perhaps he could play an NHL shift or two before we put him in the HOF and call him the greatest draft steal ever.

Which is why I said "at this point". You didn't answer my question, you just put a bunch of words in my mouth instead.