The Cam Ward RAGE POST. Rage Against the Machine

[Blueline Bomber]

In most losses, it's the team that lets Ward down, not the other way around.

I'm not defending him, I just direct most of my vitriol at the rest of the team for a typically poor effort before I turn on him.

Pretty much this. If he Winnipeg's a game, absolutely, he let the team down and should be blamed.

But most nights, Ward's kept the score close to give the team a chance at points. Tonight's game is the perfect example of that.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

My problem with this is he's so inconsistent. I mean he wins some games, he loses some games. He saves some shots, lets some shots in. Who does he think he is? Doesn't he know how to play like a pro athlete? Where's the consistency? Doesn't he know he has to be consistent? Wait, what's that? EVERY goalie wins some and loses some? EVERY goalie lets in some shots and saves others? And wait, what's that? A goalie who in theory lets in every shot he faces is also "consistent?" Huh.

 

[AhoLottaLove]

You created this thread based off 1 period...

Sums up this rant thread perfectly.

Bluedevil58, Name 15 other goalies who would have got us a point tonight. If you can convincingly do that you've only shown that Cam is below average. You can't and he isn't.

 

[spockBokk]

we should have drafted instant impact player nich after firing JR, then shoot gerbe now after he figured out what an entry level contract was, please then kill Lindholm otherwise known as ruutu 2.0 now...

stupid cam ward...

 

[the halleJOKEL]

oh god what the hell is this thread

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Meanwhile, Valeri Nichushkin, who dominated the preseason, is a healthy scratch.

On the other hand, Jeff Skinner, who sucked in the preseason, is at a PPG pace for the 3rd year in a row.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

oh god what the hell is this thread

kin we mak this a #sekret tread, so none can read anymor???

 

[Lazyking]

The only thing I agree with the OP about is that Cam Ward is overpaid. Unless you're Dominik Hasak, you're not worth more than five million dollars as a goalie.

That being said, Cam Ward has been an above avg. goalie in this league Four out of his six full seasons as the starter. He's a positional goalie that will most times make the routine save. He's coming off an injury as well. Is he the best goalie in the league? no but he's a top fifteen goalie and with a great defense would easily be considered a much better goalie.

 

[rocky7]

I'm not a Cam Ward hater (weird term) or apologist. I think he is over paid (worth is whatever someone will pay you) and probably past his prime. I think he's over-rated but is a good goalie. if you look around the posts about him those are the general thoughts about the guy.

he has his weaknesses like his glove hand. lately he is sitting deep, non-aggresive and lacking confidence. he plays well but lets in a softy here and there. pretty much how most goalies play that are not truly elite which I don't think he is.

I will never scapegoat a player of a team sport especially.

I don't like the constant excuses for his poor play at times.

bottom line for me is that the guy is struggling and he knows that fully well. the team knows it. they brought in Khudobin. hopefully they can manage to play well and help the team win.

that's one position. others need more help. I'm sure Ward's not happy with his game and will do what he can. Canes goaltending overall is o.k.. could be better. could be worse.

too bad Khudobin got hurt. I thought the rotation was a good way to go.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

We overvalue our best players generally -- maybe because we think we have to overpay to keep them in a non-traditional hockey market.

That said: this is still a stupid thread.

--hank

 

[golfpro827]

Cam was amazing last night against Chicago. How that game wasn't 5-0 after the first period is beyond me. The 2 goals were a break away and a defense that couldn't clear a puck at the end of a PP.

I totally agree that he isn't playing up to his contract - he's not even a top 10 goalie in the league but is paid (Don't quote me here) as the third highest. Top 5 for sure.

But all the hate this guy gets is truly unfounded. He has gone 4 for 6 in shootouts, which is great considering the offensive talent that has come at him in those 2, yet has no shootout wins. Not everything is on him.

I feel like as a whole there are more times when we say "We won b/c of Cam" or "We got a point b/c of Cam" or "We wasted Cam's effort" than we say "the reason we lost is because of a Cam."

Grant Fuhr had a career GAA of 2.93 and a Save % under 900. But Grant Fuhr accomplished what each goalie is challenged to do. He gave his team a chance to win. And Cam Ward gives his team a chance to win more often then he blows that chance.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Grant Fuhr had a career GAA of 2.93 and a Save % under 900. But Grant Fuhr accomplished what each goalie is challenged to do. He gave his team a chance to win. And Cam Ward gives his team a chance to win more often then he blows that chance.

While that's generally true that Fuhr was a good, but not great goalie, it's not fair to compare his stats vs. today's goalies. When he was in his prime with Edmonton, the NHL was considerably different and much higher scoring so you can't use only his stats as comparison. For instance, in 1985, only 2 goalies had a save % below .900 and a GAA of less than 3. Last year, almost every goalie was better than .900. Also, back then players were putting up ridiculous amount of points (there were 20 players with 90 points or more, 13 with 100 or more, and Gretzky had over 200).

Also, Fuhr had a team around him that was way more talented than what Ward has. Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Lowe, Andersen, MacTavish, McSorley, Huddy, etc... Canes aren't even close to that level of talent.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

One year, I believe it was 83-84, the Oilers AVERAGED 5.57 goals per game. Averaged.

 

[golfpro827]

While that's generally true that Fuhr was a good, but not great goalie, it's not fair to compare his stats vs. today's goalies. When he was in his prime with Edmonton, the NHL was considerably different and much higher scoring so you can't use only his stats as comparison. For instance, in 1985, only 2 goalies had a save % below .900 and a GAA of less than 3. Last year, almost every goalie was better than .900. Also, back then players were putting up ridiculous amount of points (there were 20 players with 90 points or more, 13 with 100 or more, and Gretzky had over 200).

Also, Fuhr had a team around him that was way more talented than what Ward has. Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Lowe, Andersen, MacTavish, McSorley, Huddy, etc... Canes aren't even close to that level of talent.

Trust me, I get that compairsons aren't fair. All I was saying is to simply look at the numbers. The numbers would say he wasn't great. But yet, he's in the Hall.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Trust me, I get that compairsons aren't fair. All I was saying is to simply look at the numbers. The numbers would say he wasn't great. But yet, he's in the Hall.

I understand, but fair or not, if the Canes are to be successful, I think Cam (or whoever is in goal) needs to do more than "give them a chance to win". IMO, the Canes aren't good enough so the goalie will need win a few games himself as well.

This is not meant to knock Ward (or Khodobin), it just is what it is.

 

[geehaad]

Time to start Ellis.

 

[golfpro827]

I understand, but fair or not, if the Canes are to be successful, I think Cam (or whoever is in goal) needs to do more than "give them a chance to win". IMO, the Canes aren't good enough so the goalie will need win a few games himself as well.

This is not meant to knock Ward (or Khodobin), it just is what it is.

This I can agree with.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Time to start Ellis.

I watched the Stars/Avs game last night, hoping to see Nichushkin and MacKinnon both play (but Nichushkin was a healthy scratch) and noticed Ellis was in net. I wandered over to the Dallas board to see what their view on Ellis was and came across this when discussing trading Lehtonen:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=72696915&postcount=206

 

[Zombie Mike Murphy]

That 83-84 oilers teams is INSANE. They had *9* guys who played at least 60 games with a shooting percentage of 15% or higher. Gretzky had 12 short handed goals. 16 games where they scored 8 goals or more....6 they were in double digits. Just unreal.

 

[geehaad]

Goaltenders sucked ass in the 80s.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I understand, but fair or not, if the Canes are to be successful, I think Cam (or whoever is in goal) needs to do more than "give them a chance to win". IMO, the Canes aren't good enough so the goalie will need win a few games himself as well.

This is not meant to knock Ward (or Khodobin), it just is what it is.

So the LA game then?

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Goaltenders sucked ass in the 80s.

They sure did. Patrick Roy pretty much started the trend of using the butterfly, before that if a guy was breaking down the wing and fired a slapshot, a goalie's best attempt to save it consisted of trying to "kick" the puck out while still standing.

That old style is so funny to watch to this day.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So the LA game then?

Hmmm...I must have been at a different game then. I could have sworn the Canes lost that game.

I realize you are the "Goaltender Defender" on this board, but I was not insinuating anything about Ward's play with my comments. I'm only saying that this team isn't good enough to have a goaltender that just "keeps them in games" and still be a playoff team. The Canes defense is still suspect, their powerplay is atrocious, their top line is inconsistent, they have very little secondary scoring and they are the softest team in the league.

IMO, if they are to make the playoffs, they need top performances from a lot of guys, and a goaltender that wins some games for them. It may not be fair to ask that of Cam (or Anton), but it is what it is.

Of course the skaters haven't been pulling their weight up until now for every game either, so this isn't an either-or thing. The team needs both to be successful.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

It was a joke. I know what you meant and I agree with you. There are some games that Ward (or Anton) will have to not only keep the score close, but win the game on their own. Since as the LA game showed, playing great and only allowing 1 just isn't enough for this offense. Not with the way it's playing now. So a shutout (or playing at a level to earn that shutout) has to be required of them.

But as you said, it's not fair to those goaltenders. And I'd certainly hope that most on this board realize scoring 1 or 2 goals doesn't give whatever goaltender we have in net a lot of room for error. If the offense only scores one goal, it doesn't matter if the goaltender gives up two or twenty (well, at that point, it does, but you know what I mean)

 

[What the Faulk]

Bellemore had more to do with those two goals than Cam did. There's a reason he only saw one shift in the third. Cam is inconsistent, we know that. But when he's on, he's one of the best goaltenders in the league.

Goaltenders make a lot of money. The ones that don't are just breaking in, or unproven or haven't hit their payday yet. Complaining about his salary is pointless. He's not going anywhere, and no one would be able to afford him anyway.