The Cake Is A Lie. The Tank Is Real.

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clunk

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Dec 10, 2015
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When healthy this is probably a .500 team. Not good enough for the playoffs, not bad enough to get the first overall pick.
I respectfully disagree. They aren't that good. The defense is a joke, and they have pretty bad forward depth. 'When healthy' assumes that all the other teams are healthy as well, and judging from that, it is easily a bottom 3 roster. Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser etc are just great enough that they're able to carry these guys on their backs and spark these point streaks/good runs of play. If say, Pettersson or Horvat were to go down, this team would be absolutely ****ed.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
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May 19, 2011
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If anyone ever wondered what would happen if Chief Wiggum and Darth Vader each put together a sports team and let them play each other, this is about as close as it gets.
 
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Canucks1096

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Feb 13, 2016
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I respectfully disagree. They aren't that good. The defense is a joke, and they have pretty bad forward depth. 'When healthy' assumes that all the other teams are healthy as well, and judging from that, it is easily a bottom 3 roster. Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser etc are just great enough that they're able to carry these guys on their backs and spark these point streaks/good runs of play. If say, Pettersson or Horvat were to go down, this team would be absolutely ****ed.

Canucks are almost half way through the season and are 1 game below 500. They weren't healthy the whole season. Before today game, Canucks we're 10th in Goal per a game. It's a fair assessment that user made.
 

TruKnyte

On the wagon
Jan 1, 2012
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I respectfully disagree. They aren't that good. The defense is a joke, and they have pretty bad forward depth. 'When healthy' assumes that all the other teams are healthy as well, and judging from that, it is easily a bottom 3 roster. Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser etc are just great enough that they're able to carry these guys on their backs and spark these point streaks/good runs of play. If say, Pettersson or Horvat were to go down, this team would be absolutely ****ed.

That's exactly my point. When healthy, they are around .500. They don't have enough depth particularly if the anchors of their top 6 go down. Even with how bad the team was last year they still managed 31 wins.
 

clunk

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Dec 10, 2015
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That's exactly my point. When healthy, they are around .500. They don't have enough depth particularly if the anchors of their top 6 go down. Even with how bad the team was last year they still managed 31 wins.
I think even healthy, they are still a bottom 3 team roster wise. I can't think of two worse looking teams than the Canucks at a glance.

They're playing above their heads right now. During the losing streak, nobody was calling them a .500 team. This is just another unsustainable blip.
 

TruKnyte

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I think even healthy, they are still a bottom 3 team roster wise. I can't think of two worse looking teams than the Canucks at a glance.

They're playing above their heads right now. During the losing streak, nobody was calling them a .500 team. This is just another unsustainable blip.

For the sake of the tank I hope you're right, but I would be willing to bet that this team doesn't finish in the bottom 3 this year. I don't see them catching LA or Chicago, and with Philly free falling the Canucks will likely be above that group.
 

Intangibos

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This team is honestly so close in a lot of ways.

The problem is the ways we aren't close we're very far. We need to bring in some quality vets to insulate the core, and I think we've all pretty much been in agreement for several years here that Benning's drafting is probably average but his pro scouting and asset/cap management are absolutely dreadful.

Such a shame.
 
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y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
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This team is honestly so close in a lot of ways.

The problem is the ways we aren't close we're very far. We need to bring in some quality vets to insulate the core, and I think we've all pretty much been in agreement for several years here that Benning's drafting is probably average but his pro scouting and asset/cap management are absolutely dreadful.

Such a shame.

Add Nylander/Ehlers, and Tkachuk to the team we have and our forward group is easily done (in terms of main components in the top 6). Now add in some competent D acquisitions and we're probably looking good right now. But like you said, he's merely average at drafting and his pro scouting and asset management is a complete and utter failure.
 

brokenhole

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Aug 12, 2015
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They will pick in the 7=10 spot this year and Benning will sell the farm to get Hughes as the draft is in Vancouver. My biggest fear is some team poaching Horvat++for Benning to move up.
 

Toxic0n

We are all mumps
Dec 10, 2008
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As much as I hate Benning, there is absolutely no scenario Horvat is traded.
What makes you say that with such absolute certainty?

I remember one time I called Gary Valk a dumbass on Twitter for suggesting that Cody Hodgson might be traded (before all his issues came to light)
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
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What makes you say that with such absolute certainty?

I remember one time I called Gary Valk a dumbass on Twitter for suggesting that Cody Hodgson might be traded (before all his issues came to light)

Horvat is the trams next captain, he’s the heart and soul, he’s the character. As dumb as I think Benning is, no one is THAT stupid.

Only way Horvat is dealt is for a massive overpayment. Now, do I think Benning could get that? Absolutely not.
 

DS7

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Oct 9, 2013
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Add Nylander/Ehlers, and Tkachuk to the team we have and our forward group is easily done (in terms of main components in the top 6). Now add in some competent D acquisitions and we're probably looking good right now. But like you said, he's merely average at drafting and his pro scouting and asset management is a complete and utter failure.
To be fair, adding those two to the team in 2016-2017 means we probably perform well enough that we don't get Q. Hughes or Pettersen. Who knows, maybe that turns out to be the better boon to the team.
 
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TruKnyte

On the wagon
Jan 1, 2012
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What makes you say that with such absolute certainty?

I remember one time I called Gary Valk a dumbass on Twitter for suggesting that Cody Hodgson might be traded (before all his issues came to light)


I think the difference is (to the best of my knowledge) Horvat doesn't have his dad pressuring the Canucks for more ice time, and has none of the health issues that Cody did.
 

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
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Victoria
What makes you say that with such absolute certainty?

I remember one time I called Gary Valk a dumbass on Twitter for suggesting that Cody Hodgson might be traded (before all his issues came to light)

Even if Benning wanted to, I don't think Aqua would let him.

Bo is the heart of the team and captain-in-waiting. Trading him is like trading away a prime Trevor Linden. The fans would revolt.
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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I think even healthy, they are still a bottom 3 team roster wise. I can't think of two worse looking teams than the Canucks at a glance.

They're playing above their heads right now. During the losing streak, nobody was calling them a .500 team. This is just another unsustainable blip.
The losing streak wasn't sustainable either. This is elementary statistics. Right now they've had tons of injuries and are ahead of what, 8-12 teams? They are not a bottom 3 roster when healthy.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
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Add Nylander/Ehlers, and Tkachuk to the team we have and our forward group is easily done (in terms of main components in the top 6). Now add in some competent D acquisitions and we're probably looking good right now. But like you said, he's merely average at drafting and his pro scouting and asset management is a complete and utter failure.

It's just so f***ing stupid too. We could have easily traded Tkachuk for either an elite D prospect or a guy who's very good now. TB was able to flip Drouin for Sergachev but for some reason we draft positional need. If we didn't draft positional need it's even more concerning because they either didn't see the obvious that Tkachuk should have gone ahead of Juolevi or they just didn't like Tkachuk, which is somehow actually a possibility given that Tkachuk said they clearly had no interest in him at the interview. You know drafting Virtanen over Nylander/Ehlers was pretty bad and it really cost this franchise. Drafting Juolevi was awful and inexcusable. I know we make fun of people for bringing up Gillis, but if Gillis had drafted Juolevi ahead of Tkachuk/Keller/Sergachev and maybe even Nylander2 it would still be cited as grounds for his dismissal today.

For Christ's sake we hear about Gillis missing with his very late 1st round picks and not getting players in later rounds where we traded picks away to acquire guys like Higgins/Lapierre who almost put us over the top for a cup. We still hear about how bad the Hodgson pick was when he overruled the scouting staff who wanted to pick Beach followed by Hodgson not only having a serious back injury but ended up getting a rare disease that pretty much prevents him from rigorous physical activity.

Brackett. wanted Boeser, Benning listened so we have to kneel before him.
Gillis hired Brackett as he was in the midst of retooling another one of his great inheritances in the worst scouting staff in the league

Gradin wanted Pettersson, Benning listened so we have to kneel before him.
Gillis identified Gradin as one of our best scouts

Gradin wanted Nylander
f*** that lets take Virtanen, local boy! Hey this isn't Benning's fault though, plus we wouldn't have sucked enough to get other high picks like Pettersson!

Benning passed on Pastrnak for McCann. Benning reportedly blames scouting staff (haven't confirmed this though).
Boy how that tune has changed since McCann had his hot start with us where again Benning was such a drafting genius!

Oh look we have good depth from later picks. Never mind that Benning doesn't actually have an impact on later picks rather than relying on the scouting staff, much of which Gillis assembled, to pick them.

Gillis got our #3D Hutton , our #1D Tanev, and our #1C Horvat as amateurs. Reminder that the trade to get Horvat played a part in his dismissal.

Benning with multiple high picks got Pettersson, Boeser, Stetcher and a bunch of prospects that are hyped up but may never make the NHL. Lind got tons of attention last year as the cream of the Canucks crop, where is he now? Gadjovich? I like some of our prospects but we're certainly not a modern day juggernaut of prospect depth.

It drives me up the wall that the majority of this fanbase still believes this nonsense. Lots of teams with high pick after high pick look like good exciting teams with youth in the pipeline but that's where they stay for a decade because in reality they're just picking high and they're doing so because they can't actually improve the team at a higher rate than the rest of the NHL outside of their top 10 picks.

I know we've all had this discussion a million times and nothing new is being said in this post, but venting is the only way I stay sane watching this team stay in purgatory while the fans are asleep completely ignorant to the reality that it takes more than drafting to build a franchise, let alone that Gillis' poor draft record was entirely excusable due to the circumstances. Why the hell does everyone have to judge everything in a vacuum with complete disregard for the various factors affecting it?

*flips table*
 

clunk

Registered User
Dec 10, 2015
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The losing streak wasn't sustainable either. This is elementary statistics. Right now they've had tons of injuries and are ahead of what, 8-12 teams? They are not a bottom 3 roster when healthy.
Compare this roster to Buffalo's last season. A 25 win team. Buffalo's 25 win team is almost twice the team the Canucks are now. So were the 28 win Ottawa Senators.

They absolutely are a bottom 3 roster on paper. Just do a side by side comparison to any other team and you will see the Canucks get beat handily
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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Compare this roster to Buffalo's last season. A 25 win team. Buffalo's 25 win team is almost twice the team the Canucks are now. So were the 28 win Ottawa Senators.

They absolutely are a bottom 3 roster on paper. Just do a side by side comparison to any other team and you will see the Canucks get beat handily
Great. Put them in the ice against actual teams right now and they don't. They aren't a bottom 3 team because there are far more than three teams who have performed worse than they have.
 

clunk

Registered User
Dec 10, 2015
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I'm gonna..
Great. Put them in the ice against actual teams right now and they don't. They aren't a bottom 3 team because there are far more than three teams who have performed worse than they have.
That's not even what I was talking about, but okay.

On paper and how they perform in reality are two different things. The NHL is a high parity league. The Vegas Golden Knights made the cup finals, ffs.
 

Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
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Compare this roster to Buffalo's last season. A 25 win team. Buffalo's 25 win team is almost twice the team the Canucks are now. So were the 28 win Ottawa Senators.

They absolutely are a bottom 3 roster on paper. Just do a side by side comparison to any other team and you will see the Canucks get beat handily
The Biggest difference is that the Canucks have two no 1 centers. Pettersson and Horvar cover for the lack of skill in this organization. 25 winBuffalo, had some skill but RoR and at lot their veterans wasn't trying. Ottawa had so much locker room problems thats why they were that a bad.
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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That's not even what I was talking about, but okay.

On paper and how they perform in reality are two different things. The NHL is a high parity league. The Vegas Golden Knights made the cup finals, ffs.
Okay. You can have some bizarre rage-intensive experience consisting of looking at the roster on paper and determining that it can't be as good on some abstract or rational level as it actually is in practice. I'll be over here watching them play hockey.
 
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northwestern comfort

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Jan 11, 2016
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So realistically speaking, how does Benning actually get fired?

I agree with the above posters that he has a lot of leeway right now because ownership clearly doesn’t know how to properly evaluate a GM and will continually move goalposts to convince themselves that the rebuild is going smoothly.

So what now? Are we just doomed to be stuck with him until he screws up so much that even the Aquilini’s realize he has to go?

Because by then he will have squandered the ELC’s of Pettersson and Boeser as well as wasted a chunk of Horvat’s prime.

You need players contributing on ELC’s if you want to win a Cup.

If we wait for Benning to get fired and replaced, and that new GM to find a way to get the right pieces around that core trio, our Cup window will be extremely small.

Compare that to Toronto who looks poised to contend for several years.

So what needs to happen to speed up Benning’s departure?

Unfortunately, it’s either a high profile drafting miss like another Tkachuk or the team plateauing ie becoming a bubble team. Both aren’t great options. The first will require years to find out and the second wastes the ELCs of the core, which are basically the same thing. When the team makes playoffs but falls out the next year is my prediction, so like 2-3 years depending on luck.
 
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