What if Pelle Lindbergh survived?
Of those listed, Lindros' career without injuries is the biggest "What if". Unlike the other players mentioned, he could sustain his prime for a much shorter time and was not able to help his team, which sacrified many assets for him, to a Stanley Cup win. Since many other all-time greats were able to maintain a very physical play for a long time, we do not have to consider Lindros' recurring injuries as an inevitable consequence of his style of play.
But the biggest "What if" for me is about the future of the Edmonton Oilers with an owner who is willing to keep the dynasty team together. Has this already been thorouly discussed here; I only remember a thread about how many cups Gretzky might have won without being traded.
Gruß,
BSHH
I don't get why people say this. It's not like his injuries were fluke injuries. They were a DIRECT result of his style of play. If he didn't play reckless, he wouldn't have been nearly as good as a he was. If he wasn't playing reckless and wasn't dominant, then he wouldn't find a good spot on an NHL roster. He never adjusted his play from when he was a mammoth compared to kids he was playing against, and that got him injured. If you take away his injuries, you take away his effectiveness as well.
Yes, what if Gretzky hadn't been traded? How many more goals and points for Gretzky (more than 1000 goals, more than 3000 points)? How many more scoring titles, Hart trophies, and Conn Smythes? And yes, how many more cups? And what about the rest of the NHL? What would have happened with expansion and the sunbelt teams? Players salaries, etc? From a broad perspective, the Gretzky trade is probably the biggest "what if" of all...Of those listed, Lindros' career without injuries is the biggest "What if". Unlike the other players mentioned, he could sustain his prime for a much shorter time and was not able to help his team, which sacrified many assets for him, to a Stanley Cup win. Since many other all-time greats were able to maintain a very physical play for a long time, we do not have to consider Lindros' recurring injuries as an inevitable consequence of his style of play.
But the biggest "What if" for me is about the future of the Edmonton Oilers with an owner who is willing to keep the dynasty team together. Has this already been thorouly discussed here; I only remember a thread about how many cups Gretzky might have won without being traded.
Gruß,
BSHH
On what basis do you make this claim? Mario never had a regular season or playoff as good as any of Gretzky's top few seasons. Best PPG average? It's Gretzky - regular season or playoffs. Most points in a season - regular season or playoffs? It's Gretzky. Most goals in a season? It's Gretzky. How about the one Lemieux should easily win: Best GPG average? Nope, it's still Gretzky. Gretzky outperformed Lemieux statistically in every category in their best head to head seasons. In fact, Lemieux doesn't even have the 2nd best goals total. It's still Gretzky with 87 goals for 2nd. Lemieux is 5th in the best points total behind Gretzky's top 4. And let's not talk about assists...then it just gets silly. Lemieux's best is tied for Gretzky's 8th worst!Mario for sure. His best was better than anyone elses best in NHL history. The only thing people have on him is "he didn't have a lengthy career".
Bobby Orr gets my vote.
Here's why: Medical advancements.
If his knees had been saved by today's MCL/ACL surgeries along with proper rest and rehab....
He would've played into the 1980's versus Gretzky.
Does Gretzky win all those Hart Trophies vs a healthy Bobby Orr who retired at age 30? Doubt it.
Don't know why you doubt it. I think Gretzky's trophies would be unaffected. Just because Orr can recover from knee problems doesn't mean he can overcome age. Gretzky and Lemieux slowed down in their 30's, and Orr would as well. In year 2 Gretzky had the points record, and by year three he was starting his run of 200 point years. Gretzky year one is Orr's only chance to steal the trophy, but Gretzky had better offensive numbers than Bobby Clarke did when Clarke got the award during one of Orr's best seasons. Voters like offense, and Orr turns 32 in Gretzky's first season. I admit it is a cool twist that he would play The Great One in Gretzky's first game, likely on the first shift.
Why? Healthy knees still leave him with Eagleson, so Bobby's a Black Hawk in 76. But on a new team that is devoid of finishers like Esposito (well without PHIL anyway,) he may not be the Bobby Orr you remember. Chicago remains devoid of finishers on offense until after Gretzky hits year 2 and the points record. And Orr would miss playing with Esposito in the slot, to distract the defense and knock in all those rebounds. In the 73 playoffs Espo went down and for the rest of the series Orr vanished. Records say he played, but it doesn't look like he accomplished anything of note. Playing in Chicago would be a lot like that.
Boston fans would probably lose their minds as the Brad Park-led 78 Bruins eliminate the Orr-led Black Hawks in the first round, although it might be a 4-2 series instead of a sweep. Wonder how they'd handle Bourque vs Orr games? Orr probably stays at 2 Cups, since he couldn't beat the Habs in his prime, let alone now that he's aging, on a team where ancient Stan Mikita is one of the primary sources of offense, and is in the middle of Lafleur/Robinson/Savard/Gainey/Lapointe/Dryden's 4-year run.
If Orr kept going, his Norris run may not have. Modern medical science doesn't mean instant recovery from knee surgery, with 80 game seasons (or 76) at full strength. Like Cam Neely and Pavel Bure after him, seasons would still be cut short, or ended. And you can only go to the arthroscopic well so many times before the knee can't be saved. Maybe Orr can come back sooner, but can he outdo Denis Potvin's physicality and scoring, or Larry Robinson's Orr-like +/- totals on 120-point Habs teams while playing shortened seasons to win another Norris? Maybe in Boston, but not even Bobby Orr could do that on the Black Hawks.
Long story short, if Bobby Orr kept playing, he would have been a Black Hawk in an era when they had no offense, and his decline in play would tarnish his lofty place in history and perhaps your memories of him, just like that red uniform would tarnish his highlight reels. Black Hawk Bobby Orr wouldn't win any MVPs after age 32, when Gretzky shows up.
...
This What If? game can be depressing.
I've never heard anyone suggest this before. Orr would surely have remained a Bruin if he had healthy knees.
At 28, Orr was a Black Hawk after having spent half his life in what he has called "servitude" to the Bruins. He had signed with Boston as a 14-year-old amateur for a few hundred dollars in cash, a new coat of stucco for the Orr family's house in Parry Sound, Ontario, a secondhand car and the promise—never fulfilled—of some new clothes.
What if Pavel Bure's knees held up? 600 goals? 700 goals?
Scored 472 goals despite playing an average of only 64 games per season over the span of his 12-year career (766 games), scoring at a rate of 51 goals/82 games. At that snail pace, he still would have potted 700 by the age of 38.
*all stats incl. playoffs