The Biggest Changes Needs to Be Leadership and Team Culture

[BudBundy]

For many years now I strongly believe what has held the team back more than "lack of talent" was leadership and lack of good team culture. I think the rot started somewhere around 2010 and grew and entrenched itself from 2010-ish to mid 2010s. I think it had improved somewhat in the last couple of years or so but i don't think the cultural rot is completely cleansed. Lack of strong veteran leadership and presence and buy in from younger stars was a problem.

It seemed for years there was a separation between the older guard and the younger up and comers. It was fractured and you can never build good team culture and chem that way. Hard to get everyone into it and buy in when it's not tight and is a bit fractured.

I think the treatment of "outsiders" like Yak and Pooly also speaks to the cultural issues. Obviously some blame lies with those said players but i believe a strong united team culture with great leadership gets those guys in line and gets them to feel more a part of the team. It's clear Pooly did NOT feel this way and wants ANYTHING but to be back in the Oil dressing room. No matter how much blame lies with Pooly himself, the team culture and leadership definitely has a fair share of blame in this.

Connor is the best player in the league and has the desire to win and will likely be a great leader but i do not think he is that leader now. The organization's foolishness was to not surround him with several good veteran leaders. The team was too young and the vets were mostly 3rd or 4th liners who may not have been the most vocal leaders. Looch was a bust obviously and how could he lead when his own game was going into the crapper. Plus we needed more vet presence than just looch even if his game was on point.

Hopefully Neal helps a bit but he might also be finding his game this year. I wouldn't mind selling a bit of the future to get some quality vet players to help in the leadership and right the culture. We can't keep perpetuating the cycle of weak leadership and poor culture.

Note to a few who don't understand culture... it doesn't necessarily mean the room is in complete disarray and that there's infighting and a few a**holes on the team. It could just mean some combo of poor leadership, poor unity, a bit cliquey, not gettting everyone to buy in, not making everyone feel a part of a tight knit group, not instilling high standards in training and practicing regiment, not keeping everyone to a standard of proper rest (ie. enough sleep and rest and less partying and video games into the the early morn). Proper sleeping habits is so important. Even slightly less sleep could mean a 10% drop in performance compared to a well rested team and that can easily translate to a 5-2 loss on the scoreboard.

Culture and habits. Vital.

Lemme guess. You are an HR Consultant.

 

[Weitz]

The thread title is correct... Not sure about the OP though.

There does seem to be a weird culture around the Oilers that it seems all ex-players comment about.

 

[MaxR11]

They’ve made really bad choices choosing veterans since 2010. I agree that’s been a big problem. They did nothing at all to surround Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle. By 2010, the only thing Shawn Horcoff cared about was Shawn Horcoff. That’s what those guys learned from him. Hemsky was always hurt and likely not around much. Didn’t help that they labeled those kids as untouchables, didn’t require them to earn anything or face accountability. That’s where the poor culture started. That was under Tambellini and it didn’t get better under Mactavish. The vets he brought in were so bad they couldn’t play at all and were either bought out or spent most of their time in the AHL.

Chiarelli had a chance to fix it but got unlucky with Sekera’s health and then blew it completely with the Lucic signing. I can’t imagine how bad things around the team were with him around. Him leaving gives the team another shot at a culture change. Here’s to hoping they can start getting it right this time.

agree. having the right vets aids in starting to build that right culture and habits. you can't let the kids run the show for the most part. but there also has to be buy in from the kids. i think we had just had a bad mix of questionable leadership from vets and a very few defiant jerk younger players in the past.

i think the situation is much better in the last few years but the leadership component is still not quite there. it's not connor's fault. he's 22. it'll take time to develop into a great capt on and off the ice. plus one singular great capt may not ensure proper culture. you need a collective group a solid vets to help with that.

 

[MaxR11]

Lucics parting shot of "it will be nice to have an older captain" certainly gives some support to your theory.

I think some of the organization's lack of professionalism and preferential treatment goes from top to bottom and will most likely always be.

yup. people get all crazy when anyone slightly criticizes connor. i don't think it's really even a criticism to say he may not be a great cpt yet in his young career. i think he's probably doing not too bad but he still needs several good leadership type vets who can still play a decent role on the team to help create the overall culture.

absolutely it starts at the top too. hopefully a lot of these things rectify themselves under this supposed new regime.

 

[MaxR11]

I agree the locker room had been an issue that's plagued the Oilers for years. But a significant contributing factor to that has been losing. Plain and simple.

Over the years I don't think that we've had a bad egg in our locker room that any other team in the league couldn't deal with.

Win and your 'culture' is great. Considering Chiarelli is a big focus on this board, look no further than Boston and you'll see what winning does to your room.

thing is you have to start building those components of a good culture, habits and general team philosophies before you become a winner. you can have a massive amount of talent but if it's not united it will perform well under expectations and that could lead to sourness and a rot culture as well. having those certain playerS that can tie the team together and create accountability and good habits and respect amongst everyone in the room etc is huge. struds talk about, on the radio yesterday, how important it is to have ALL the players on the team feel part of the group and that as teammates you have to keep trying and even force the outsiders to assimliate. he mentioned something along the lines of if they feel part of the group off the ice they will feel more part of it on the ice and the buy in and contributions would be greater. it's essentially common sense.

i don't think we've had many bad eggs in the past (i'm sure we had a few), and the room is probably decent now but that doesn;t mean the culture is GOOD. it may not be bad but it may not be a good one where people are held accountable, good habits are of huge importance, team unity is vital (just because there's no disputes or fights in the room doesn't mean everyone is united and has that feeling of doing everything they can to "have each other's backs on the ice") etc.

i think it's not a bad culture... likely it was a lukewarm, bland kind of a culture that most players wouldn't speak glowingly of if they left. they wouldn't say, "o ya, it was a great room, everyone liked each other, we played hard for each other, we had strong leadership and it was a joy to come to the room and see these guys every day' etc etc.

 

[McShogun99]

QFT. Horcoff was also the start of the overpays in Edmonton. If a plumber like that is on 6x$5.5 how do you not pay Hall, Eberle, RNH more?

As for the OP ....

Horcoff was on his way to being a top 15 center in the league. Before he injured his shoulder he was a pretty good player, similar to Bergeron.

 

[rboomercat90]

McDavid isn’t a good leader because Pool Party whined his way out?

Gotta love random internet people who think they know what the hell culture is like for a sports team. Up there with the body language experts for uselessness.

The OP didn’t say McDavid wasn’t a good leader. He suggested too much was put on his plate too early. Pittsburgh made Crosby a captain early too but they were smart enough to surround him with high quality veterans like Gary Roberts and others to take that pressure off him. That didn’t happen here and it hasn’t happened that way here forever. Even the Leafs were smart enough to bring in Marleau to help with their kids.

Considering the horrible record this team has had over the years, it amazes me that many can’t recognize it as the problem it’s been.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

The OP didn’t say McDavid wasn’t a good leader. He suggested too much was put on his plate too early. Pittsburgh made Crosby a captain early too but they were smart enough to surround him with high quality veterans like Gary Roberts and others to take that pressure off him. That didn’t happen here and it hasn’t happened that way here forever. Even the Leafs were smart enough to bring in Marleau to help with their kids.

Considering the horrible record this team has had over the years, it amazes me that many can’t recognize it as the problem it’s been.

Ah yes, McDavid sure has suffered as an individual since being named captain. Only won a couple Art Ross, Lindsay’s and a Hart.


It’s amazing people actually believe that making him captain was a mistake. He’s done fine. There’s so many issues worth more concern than this crap.

Literally a couple posts ahead of mine, OP says he doesn’t think McDavid is a great captain.

What evidence does the OP have to the contrary? It’s a bunch of horse shit.

 

[Jamin]

Horcoff was on his way to being a top 15 center in the league. Before he injured his shoulder he was a pretty good player, similar to Bergeron.

Didnt he have his 70 point season in the inflated scoring year of 05/06, then he had his 50 points in 82 games year. Everyone was down on him and he went to Mexico stick factory and personally worked on his stick and had 50 points in like 55 games, at which point in time they signed him to the big contract. If memory is correct he had another 50 point year and fell off a cliff.

So they paid a 50 point center (with 1 outlier season) 5.5 million, which in the salary cap of 2008 is like paying him what 8-10 mil a year now. Id say he was overpaid.

The cap was way smaller back then, like saying he was underpaid at 3.6 mil when that is equivalent to a bigger salary now.

 

[wokwithme]

Yakupov was as much as an outsider as Draisaitl.

It's been noted that McDavid goes out of his way to make sure everyone is included and things arent too cliquey.

This thread is....yeah

This. OP is out of touch with reality.
I think the Oilers right now have a good culture.


The problem is the league changed on the Oilers...they overachieved and caught teams off guard by getting bigger and more forceful. Then the league continued moving to faster players and the coke machines became problems on the ice. Our solid recent drafting is only going to start helping us in the next few seasons.

Hall wasn't a leader. Eberle wasnt a leader. It doesnt matter to me if a player is a leader or not individually. What matters is people strengthening the team. Working hard. Earning their ice time.

Yak WAS a problem. Witnessed it clearly in games where a vet centre would tell him where to be and what to do. Yak repeatedly wouldnt listen and would shrug it off when he got burned by the opponent because he hadnt done as told. Over and over and over. How do you look at a guy like that on your bench. It had nothing to do with players not accepting him. Nothing to do with being an outsider or some form of bias. Yak made himself an outcast by not doing what every other young player was happy to do... play for the team. Listen. Execute.
If a guys not willing to try...time is to short and there are a lot of guys ready to put the effort in. Focus on the guys taking their backs to help the team.
Any culture problem came from our management eating time and assets on players who played hockey for fun. Those guys who are satisfied to be a player in a league where nhl players go when they hit their 40s. Basically a proam clown league. Nhl is no place for players who are satisfied with that.

I was around for yak watching from the stands but for Pul ive mostly been living in Toronto so i don't know but seems like the same thing.

 

[McDNicks17]

If McDavid was more like Ethan Moreau, we would have won at least a few Cups by now.

 

[wokwithme]

Didnt he have his 70 point season in the inflated scoring year of 05/06, then he had his 50 points in 82 games year. Everyone was down on him and he went to Mexico stick factory and personally worked on his stick and had 50 points in like 55 games, at which point in time they signed him to the big contract. If memory is correct he had another 50 point year and fell off a cliff.

So they paid a 50 point center (with 1 outlier season) 5.5 million, which in the salary cap of 2008 is like paying him what 8-10 mil a year now. Id say he was overpaid.

The cap was way smaller back then, like saying he was underpaid at 3.6 mil when that is equivalent to a bigger salary now.

You both are right. He was over paid. There is a reason for it and a big part was the hole some other trades had made. Bad asset management.

Horcoff also was a solid player, two way centre with offensive upside. We'r lost orr centre depth... ...and relied tooo heavily on him. He ruined both shoulders under the pressure. Bye to his decent snap shot and quick release, bye to his faceoff power.
Management let him play on an injured shoulder for 2 months dyring his all star year. He then was rushed in to the next session to reinjure

What a waste

 

[Aceboogie]

Culture and leadership was great in 2016/17 when everyone was healthy and we were getting all the luck and winning games. Everyone loved getting rid of the cancers in Hall, Eberle and also in bringing in heart and soul leaders in Russell and Lucic (who eventually became a cancer when he started to suck). But once the Oilers luck ran out after the 2017 playoffs run, all of a sudden the culture turned bads magically. Despite it being pretty much the same locker room

The culture BS is the worst. Culture is a by-product of winning, it doesn't cause winning. Winning is caused by bringing in skilled players. All bad teams go the "culture" route to justify when they fail to bring in skilled players. Its overdone and corny. Its sad because there is instances where culture and intangibles are actually important, but the term has been twisted and manipulated so much that it means nothing

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Fire Kevin Lowe and Bobby Nicks.

 

[MaxR11]

Ah yes, McDavid sure has suffered as an individual since being named captain. Only won a couple Art Ross, Lindsay’s and a Hart.


It’s amazing people actually believe that making him captain was a mistake. He’s done fine. There’s so many issues worth more concern than this crap.

Literally a couple posts ahead of mine, OP says he doesn’t think McDavid is a great captain.

What evidence does the OP have to the contrary? It’s a bunch of horse ****.

mansome of you have to work on comprehension skills. i think you're blinded by your own triggerness when someone says something less than glowing about connor. I NEVER said he was a bad leader. do i question whether he's a great one at this point? yes. that doens't mean he's not ok for his age as a leader. and nowhere did i say making him cpt was a mistake. the mistake is NOT SURROUNDING HIM WITH GOOD QUALITY VET LEADERSHIP TO HELP HIM. even IF he was a great leader it's still very difficult for a young guy like him to be a leader on the ice, on the bench, in the room, off the ice, etc etc etc. AND be the best player in the league. i'm sure a lot of focus for him is to always fine tune his own game and be prepared. he NEEDS HELP. you just want to make it about bashing me which is why you automatically went to interpret the post to be based all around me bashing connor. grow up.

 

[MaxR11]

Culture and leadership was great in 2016/17 when everyone was healthy and we were getting all the luck and winning games. Everyone loved getting rid of the cancers in Hall, Eberle and also in bringing in heart and soul leaders in Russell and Lucic (who eventually became a cancer when he started to suck). But once the Oilers luck ran out after the 2017 playoffs run, all of a sudden the culture turned bads magically. Despite it being pretty much the same locker room

The culture BS is the worst. Culture is a by-product of winning, it doesn't cause winning. Winning is caused by bringing in skilled players. All bad teams go the "culture" route to justify when they fail to bring in skilled players. Its overdone and corny. Its sad because there is instances where culture and intangibles are actually important, but the term has been twisted and manipulated so much that it means nothing

i urge you to talk to anyone who's played in the NHL or any high level hockey and they'll tell you culture is equally as important if not more so than talent. go ahead. call strudwick on the gregor show and see what he'll tell you about your take.

why do some highly skilled teams succeed and some highly skilled team fail and always disappoint? culture. you set the foundation of a good culture and you bring the talent in who abide by it and build something great.

 

[Jumptheshark]

i urge you to talk to anyone who's played in the NHL or any high level hockey and they'll tell you culture is equally as important if not more so than talent. go ahead. call strudwick on the gregor show and see what he'll tell you about your take.

why do some highly skilled teams succeed and some highly skilled team fail and always disappoint? culture. you set the foundation of a good culture and you bring the talent in who abide by it and build something great.

Winning tends to grow leadership and team culture.

If you are guys are serious about wanting to change the leadership of the team yet again and the culture of the team: then you are talking about trading both McDavid and leon, it us their team.

3rd and 4th line fall in line behind the top line

 

[MaxR11]

Winning tends to grow leadership and team culture.

If you are guys are serious about wanting to change the leadership of the team yet again and the culture of the team: then you are talking about trading both McDavid and leon, it us their team.

3rd and 4th line fall in line behind the top line

what? this is asinine. why would we talk about trading either of them?? you add the right veteran leadership to help them with that and help them develop into better leaders or help them build a better culture in the room.

some of you simplify it as winning will grow culture. teams win because they have the right mix of talent, character and culture set in place to have everyone pull together to win CONSISTENTLY.

it seems everything is black and white with some of you. just because the culture may not be the best doesn't mean it's bad. doesn't mean you have to trade connor and leon. geez, what a stretch. asinine.

 

[TB12]

Not that it's a bad topic but I laughed when I saw the title because I already knew which poster had started this thread

 

[Little Fury]

Love to hear all about what's wrong in the dressing room from someone who has never set foot in it.

 

[Little Fury]

Not that it's a bad topic but I laughed when I saw the title because I already knew which poster had started this thread

I have a grudging respect for guys who lean this hard into a bit, but no one tops the god Todd From Leduc.

 

[Jumptheshark]

what? this is asinine. why would we talk about trading either of them?? you add the right veteran leadership to help them with that and help them develop into better leaders or help them build a better culture in the room.

some of you simplify it as winning will grow culture. teams win because they have the right mix of talent, character and culture set in place to have everyone pull together to win CONSISTENTLY.

it seems everything is black and white with some of you. just because the culture may not be the best doesn't mean it's bad. doesn't mean you have to trade connor and leon. geez, what a stretch. asinine.

That was my response to this thread. We have this thread 4 or 5 times over the past few seasons.

McDavid is the leader of the team and him and leon are in charge of creating the culture.


Team culture is created by the the team and not by coaches or managers

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Winning tends to grow leadership and team culture.

If you are guys are serious about wanting to change the leadership of the team yet again and the culture of the team: then you are talking about trading both McDavid and leon, it us their team.

3rd and 4th line fall in line behind the top line

This exactly.
Ovechkin was seen as a terrible leader and posters said he'd never be able to lead a team to the cup since he apparently vanished during the important games.
Until they won the cup, because they had a really really good team. One that had a great starting goalie, a good #1 dman, and scoring depth. Like pretty much every other cup winning team has had, and the very things we've never had.

 

[Little Fury]

i urge you to talk to anyone who's played in the NHL or any high level hockey and they'll tell you culture is equally as important if not more so than talent. go ahead. call strudwick on the gregor show and see what he'll tell you about your take.

Yeah, I imagine a guy who managed to last longer in the league than his talent would dictate because "he's a great guy in the room" would have things to say about the importance of culture. It doesn't mean it's true.

why do some highly skilled teams succeed and some highly skilled team fail and always disappoint? culture. you set the foundation of a good culture and you bring the talent in who abide by it and build something great

Or maybe hockey is a game where luck and randomness play a massive role in dictating outcomes?

 

[frag2]

what? this is asinine. why would we talk about trading either of them?? you add the right veteran leadership to help them with that and help them develop into better leaders or help them build a better culture in the room.

some of you simplify it as winning will grow culture. teams win because they have the right mix of talent, character and culture set in place to have everyone pull together to win CONSISTENTLY.

it seems everything is black and white with some of you. just because the culture may not be the best doesn't mean it's bad. doesn't mean you have to trade connor and leon. geez, what a stretch. asinine.

Says the guy preaching Hall was the root of all evil and sole reason the Oilers sunk all these years....