The Best Players To Never Have Been THE Best...

[GlitchMarner]

The guys who could have been the absolute best in the NHL or entire hockey world if not for another player or couple of players... who are your picks?

Jean Beliveau? Bobby Hull? Phil Esposito? Bobby Clarke? Mark Messier? Steve Yzerman? Alex Ovechkin? Evgeni Malkin? Connor McDavid?


I consider Ovechkin to have been the top or at least co-best player circa 2009 (for me personally he was the best at that point) and McDavid to be the best currently.

Try to focus on the historical side of things.

Click to read more...

 

[The Panther]

I think Beliveau, Hull, Ovechkin, and now McDavid have all been generally considered the best player in the League for at least one season if not more (Beliveau in 1955-56, for example).

Esposito is a little different -- top scorer by far, yes, but I don't think fans ever thought he was Orr's equal. Clarke somehow ends up behind Orr, Lafleur, and Trottier/Gretzky at every stage. Messier has an argument for 2nd-best player maybe in 1989-90, but I don't think he was ever considered the 2nd-best, especially since he didn't hit his prime until Mario was on the rise. Yzerman likewise. Malkin maybe is closer to having been "the best" for one season, but there's the Crosby/Ovechkin thing...

 

[blogofmike]

Shadow of the Big 4 is the easy place to look.

Messier, Roy, Esposito. Possibly Kelly or Harvey.

 

[Ralph Malfredsson]

Ray Bourque.

 

[The Panther]

Was Maurice Richard ever (outside of Quebec) considered the best player in the game? I guess there's an argument for c.1944 to 1950, but the competition (even his teammate, Lach, in 1945) was pretty stiff.

 

[crobro]

2002 Todd Bertuzzi

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

my understanding is rocket richard was considered the greatest player of all time until howe came along.

 

[The Panther]

my understanding is rocket richard was considered the greatest player of all time until howe came along.

Maybe so, I dunno. (When Howe first appeared, the Rocket had only been noteworthy for a few years.)

It's an interesting question: by the end of the 40s, did Montreal fans consider the Rocket better than Morenz and Joliat had ever been?

 

[Matsun]

Was Jagr the concensous no.1 at the time? With Lemiuex at the start, Hasek, the hype of Lindros, Sakic and Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne and Bures goalscoring I can see Jagr perhaps growing in hindsight.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Just best Defenseman:

Perhaps someone like Brad Park, who was the consensus number two defenseman behind Bobby Orr for a few seasons....

Prior to Potvin and Robinson emerging.

 

[Kevs Security]

Forsberg... oh, what could've been.

 

[sr edler]

Was Jagr the concensous no.1 at the time? With Lemiuex at the start, Hasek, the hype of Lindros, Sakic and Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne and Bures goalscoring I can see Jagr perhaps growing in hindsight.

Selänne and Bure only had a leg up on Jagr up until the 94–95 season when he said good-bye.

 

[MXD]

Le numéro 33.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Just best Defenseman:

Perhaps someone like Brad Park, who was the consensus number two defenseman behind Bobby Orr for a few seasons....

Prior to Potvin and Robinson emerging.

Yeah this screams Brad Park.

8x 2nd in Norris voting in 11 seasons.

There's an alternate universe somewhere where Bobby Orr was never born and Park spends his days looking at his 8 Norris trophies

 

[VanIslander]

Greats who lived in the shadows of giants:

F: Bernie Geoffrion
D: Brad Park
G: Ed Belfour

 

[DannyGallivan]

The guys who could have been the absolute best in the NHL or entire hockey world if not for another player or couple of players... who are your picks?

Jean Beliveau? Bobby Hull? Phil Esposito? Bobby Clarke? Mark Messier? Steve Yzerman? Alex Ovechkin? Evgeni Malkin? Connor McDavid?


I consider Ovechkin to have been the top or at least co-best player circa 2009 (for me personally he was the best at that point) and McDavid to be the best currently.

Try to focus on the historical side of things.

Dale Hawerchuk could have been the face of the NHL for awhile, same with Denis Savard. Perhaps Marcel Dionne if Lafleur and Gretzky didn't take away his shine. Gilbert Perreault also had a shot during the '70s.

I think most of the players you named were at one time already considered the best in the hockey world. Bobby Hull was the marquee player for half of the 60's. Espo won a couple of Harts along with a mess of scoring awards. Beliveau was also Montreal's best player forward during the 50's dynasty. Of those you listed, perhaps only Yzerman didn't have his spot in the sun by himself.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Yeah this screams Brad Park.

8x 2nd in Norris voting in 11 seasons.

There's an alternate universe somewhere where Bobby Orr was never born and Park spends his days looking at his 8 Norris trophies

This was so obvious I missed it.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Was Jagr the concensous no.1 at the time? With Lemiuex at the start, Hasek, the hype of Lindros, Sakic and Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne and Bures goalscoring I can see Jagr perhaps growing in hindsight.

Maybe not consensus, but for me Jagr was the best player in the game in his prime.Some would say Hasek.

So I think Jagr has enough of a case as the best in the world to be disqualified from this thread.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I agree, Jagr was the best player in the world for a reasonable enough chunk of 1997-2001 give or take...

 

[steve141]

I don't think Doug Harvey was ever considered the best player in the world, but I have him as the 5th best player ever.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Forsberg... oh, what could've been.

He was definitely considered the best player in the world (practically his nickname on NHL 2Night). From 2002-2006, he came out on top of at least three separate player polls and multiple THN lists. Essentially the bridge between Jagr and Crosby.

A broken down wooden bridge in the jungle that you see people attempting to cross in adventure movies, but a bridge nonetheless.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Dale Hawerchuk could have been the face of the NHL for awhile, same with Denis Savard. Perhaps Marcel Dionne if Lafleur and Gretzky didn't take away his shine. Gilbert Perreault also had a shot during the '70s.

I think most of the players you named were at one time already considered the best in the hockey world. Bobby Hull was the marquee player for half of the 60's. Espo won a couple of Harts along with a mess of scoring awards. Beliveau was also Montreal's best player forward during the 50's dynasty. Of those you listed, perhaps only Yzerman didn't have his spot in the sun by himself.

As good Hawerchuk and Savard were, I don't think either was a Crosby or McDavid type that could have been the best in the League for an extended stretch. Hawerchuk would have been the best in 1985 without Gretzky and he and Savard might have competed for best in the world in 1988 without Wayne and Mario, but otherwise I don't think there would have been enough separation between them and the Dionnes, Stastnys, Trottiers, Bossys, Messiers and Yzermans over the rest of the 1980s for either to have been the best for any sustained period.

 

[DannyGallivan]

As good Hawerchuk and Savard were, I don't think either was a Crosby or McDavid type that could have been the best in the League for an extended stretch. Hawerchuk would have been the best in 1985 without Gretzky and he and Savard might have competed for best in the world in 1988 without Wayne and Mario, but otherwise I don't think there would have been enough separation between them and the Dionnes, Stastnys, Trottiers, Bossys, Messiers and Yzermans over the rest of the 1980s for either to have been the best for any sustained period.

I don't know how sustained we were looking at. I guess my point is the 80's saw a large proliferation of exceptionally talented forwards... the Hawerchuks, Savards, Statsneys were overshadowed by Wayne and Mario.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I guess Dionne counts here.

His point finishes are 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 with six 50+ goal seasons. That's pretty damn good for a guy who had several extremely good players overlapping his most productive years. Esposito, Orr, Trottier, Bossy, Gretzky, etc.

Actually Bossy is a good example too.

 

[DannyGallivan]

He was definitely considered the best player in the world (practically his nickname on NHL 2Night). From 2002-2006, he came out on top of at least three separate player polls and multiple THN lists. Essentially the bridge between Jagr and Crosby.

A broken down wooden bridge in the jungle that you see people attempting to cross in adventure movies, but a bridge nonetheless.

He won one Hart during that time and one scoring title. A lot of people heaped praise on Forsberg, but he never rose above Sakic as the franchises' best of all time. The underrated Marty St. Louis and Jumbo Joe had amazing seasons during that time, but Forsberg was the "default" guy for a lot of so-called experts. Me, I think there was no clear-cut sustained best player in the world during that time. Just as Glitchmarner commented that without a Wayne or Mario in the 80's there wouldn't have been just one sustained best player (Hawerchuk, Savard, Messier and Statsney would have duked it out), the same held true during that period of the 2000's.