I don't mean to be anal, and nit pick small arguments, but Chucko chose the BCHL because he thought he wasn't ready for the WHL yet, and didn't want to get stuck into a 4th line loop.Van said:
Its said on slam sports (slam.canoe.ca)
The BCHL
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Its said on slam sports (slam.canoe.ca)
Mizral
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spamojones
Registered User
cds said:
Here here!
Victoria Salmon Kings? No thanks. I'll stick to my BCHL for now.
I can still dream for the dub to come back right?
Splatman Phanutier said:
If he just thought he was too young for the WHL, why would he have signed a scholarship with the University of Minnesota?
On top of all that. The BCHL is quite competitive unlike the WHL. The Saskatoon Blades of the WHL this year were horrible while there isn't that much disparity in the BCHL when every single team can give even the Silverbacks a run for its money on any given sunday.
I have seen many (500+) WHL and the same BCHL games.
The BCHL is a quicker league with slightly smaller players. the big difference is on the "D". The BCHL has 5'9" to 6'2" while the WHL has those monster 6'4" to 6'9" guys that can skate.
Hagar
The BCHL is a quicker league with slightly smaller players. the big difference is on the "D". The BCHL has 5'9" to 6'2" while the WHL has those monster 6'4" to 6'9" guys that can skate.
Hagar
Drew said:
So you are saying that age makes a league better. Using that logic, we would then have to conclude that the UHL is better than both the NCAA or OHL because its players are older, right?
VOB said:
The tuition for a NCAA University runs in the tens of thousands, most NCAA players have scholarships and getting scholarships that eventually subsidize about $100,000 US, the players are expected to act as professionals and the competition is extremely professional as expert coaches follow an NHL-like atmosphere emphasizing defense and team-play and the overall game is much more mature than the CHL where the primary motive is a developmental league for players to get drafted and entertain fans. If you look at the past list of Hobey Baker Award winners, most have had good careers in the NHL and all professional scouts agree that NCAA players who do well in College are better bets to make the NHL than CHL stars. All NCAA players train professionally like athletes of College Football players or College Basketball players and follow strict regimens of exercise and a good diet while CHL players are more laid-back.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
While I don't think the BCHL is better or even on par with the WHL at the moment, it is a drastically underrated league that produces a lot of good players. Not at the rate the WHL does out west, but the BCHL doesn't get its due. It's not as good as the WHL at the moment, however.
~Canucklehead~
~Canucklehead~
Jovanovski = Norris said:
First off, not all NCAA player are on full scholarships. In fact, on any given team only half are (and that is being generous!) nor are all NCAA scholarship packages worth $100 000 (good heavens, Lake Superior State and Northern Michigan would quicky be out of business if they were!!!) and even a team such as Michigan would spend far less on players, especially if they are in state players.
Have you ever seen an OHL off ice regiment program? If you had, you certainly would not have made that ridiculous comment about CHL players being laid back! Their training is as everybit intense as any team's in the NCAA and it has to be since the OHL is a more physical league and plays a much more demanding schedule!
Your list of Hobey Baker candidates is far from impressive by the way. Take a look at the past ten winners and you will find that thus far only Morrison and Drury have established themselves as good players (granted the jury is still out on Ryan Miller, Peter Sejna and Jordan Leopold).
Can you please name me some scouts who honestly believe that college stars tend to turn out better than CHL ones. Nice to say but where is the proof?
Out of the top 20 NHL points leaders this year, half were CHL alums while only 2 were from the NCAA ranks. Out of the top 20 rookies this year, 11 were from the CHL while only 4 were from the NCAA. Hardly proof of your theory that NCAA star players develop better than the CHL counterparts.
The NCAA is a great league but you give a tad to much credit to it and undervalue the worth of the CHL.
Because he figured he needed a good while to develop physically, ie. 4 years, and thought the NCAA had a good development program.Van said:
He say he thought he was "too young" he just said he wasn't ready for the WHL.
VOB said:
$100,000 over 3-4 fours years.
Paul Kariya was a Hobey Baker winner so were other NHL players such as Jason Krog, Kip Miller, Scott Pellerin and Brian Holzinger
VOB said:
$100,000 over 3-4 fours years.
Paul Kariya was a Hobey Baker winner so were other NHL players such as Jason Krog, Kip Miller, Scott Pellerin and Brian Holzinger
Lard_Lad
Registered User
Jovanovski = Norris said:
CHL MVP's: http://www.chl.ca/CHLAwards/a_playeryear.html
Hobey Baker winners: http://www.hobeybaker.com/history/index.html
Lemieux, Sakic, Robitaille, Richards, Lindros vs. Kariya, Broten, Morrison, Drury, Leopold. Which one looks more impressive to you?
Teemu
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Jovanovski = Norris said:
What?
1981 Neal Broten (good)
1982 George McPhee (bust)
1983 Mark Fusco (bust)
1984 Tom Kurvers (bust)
1985 Bill Watson (bust)
1986 Scott Fusco (bust)
1987 Tony Hrkac (decent)
1988 Robb Stauber (G) (bust)
1989 Lane MacDonald (bust)
1990 Kip Miller (decent)
1991 David Emma (bust)
1992 Scott Pellerin (bust)
1993 Paul Kariya (nuff said)
1994 Chris Marinucci (bust)
1995 Brian Holzinger (decent)
1996 Brian Bonin (bust)
1997 Brendan Morrison (good)
1998 Chris Drury (good)
1999 Jason Krog (decent)
2000 Mike Mottau (bust)
Too early for the rest, but id hardley call that star-studded
Jovanovski = Norris said:
Yes they are NHL players but have they all had "good" careers.
In state tuition at Michigan runs about 7000 a year + 8000-9000 for residency. That still does not add up to $100 000 over four years. The CHL also invests heavily into their players including paying the full cost of tuition and residency for many of its former players.
sehnsucht, yes Leopold has done well thus far and I expect his progress to continue. He is still to young to say that he has had a good NHL career but I am sure that he will after such a promising start. According to Jovanovski though a comparable CHL player would not be at the same level as the college trained Leopold because the CHL just doesn't develop and train to the degree that college does. Well it might shock Mr Jovanovski to note that Regehr is the same age as Leopold but has been playing in the league twice as long and is considered by many to be not only the Flames best Dman but one of the better ones in all of the NHL. Just another tidbit that further discredits Jovanovski's theory of the NCAA being so much better.
For 10 years past the last known Hobey winner, taking the name players,
Leopold, Miller, Drury, Morrison, Holzinger, Kariya and Pellerin
vs.
Locke, Bouchard, Richards, Campbell, McCauley and Jason Allison?
I'll take the NCAA players from 1992-2002 (10 years before the last known winner) over the CHL's.
Leopold, Miller, Drury, Morrison, Holzinger, Kariya and Pellerin
vs.
Locke, Bouchard, Richards, Campbell, McCauley and Jason Allison?
I'll take the NCAA players from 1992-2002 (10 years before the last known winner) over the CHL's.
Lard_Lad said:
Yup those Hobey guys rock don't they whild those CHL guys just can't hold a candle to them
Splatman Phanutier said:
You might take the Hobey guys but take a look at players that have come out of both systems in the past ten years. For the CHL you have Richards, Iginla, Hossa, Tanguay, Gagne, Thornton, Marleau, Doan, LeCavalier, Nash, Briere, Spezza....and those are just forwards. What has come out of the NCAA in the past ten years that is comparable? You have St Louis, Heatley, Morrison, Drury and who else...Arnason?
On D you have McCabe, Redden, Regehr, Stuart, Jovonoski, Mara, Morris, Boynton, Jackman, Hamhius, Sopel and Brewer. What has the NCAA produced? I can think of Leopold, Poti, Hale, Boyle, Martin, Liles and who else?
In goal the CHL can claim Luongo, Esche, Bergeron, Theodore, Cloutier, Biron, Denis and Garon. For the NCAA you have Turco, DiPietro....and who else?
Let me again say that the NCAA is a good league but it bugs me when people like Jovanovski = Norris spout off crap about the CHL.
Can't disagree with that too muchVOB said:
Who's a better league, I don't know. The CHL is much bigger, much more popular to Canadians, and better suites hockey guys who want to play more games.
However, all reports say that the NCAA has vastly improved in the past few years from a almost tier 2 league, to one of the top development programs in the world.
Lard_Lad
Registered User
Splatman Phanutier said:
Actually, they're about the same size. 60 NCAA Division I programs vs. 56 CHL teams.
Jovanovski = Norris said:
Ever heard of the Quesnel Millionaires?
Here are the overall 2003-04 standings of both leagues for you to compare...
Team - Points (W-L-T-OTL)
WHL (20 teams, 72 games)
Kelowna - 98 (47-21-4-0)
Medicine Hat - 92 (40-20-9-3)
Moose Jaw - 91 (41-22-8-1)
Prince Albert - 87 (38-23-6-5)
Red Deer - 85 (35-22-10-5)
Calgary - 82 (34-24-8-6)
Vancouver - 81 (33-24-9-6)
Everett - 80 (35-27-8-2)
Swift Current - 79 (36-29-7-0)
Kamloops - 78 (34-28-8-2)
Portland - 77 (34-29-6-3)
Tri City - 76 (31-27-10-4)
Spokane - 75 (32-29-4-7)
Kootenay - 74 (32-30-7-3)
Lethbridge - 71 (27-28-10-7)
Prince George - 68 (30-34-7-1)
Brandon - 68 (28-32-9-3)
Seattle - 65 (24-31-8-9)
Regina - 59 (24-37-7-4)
Saskatoon - 27 (7-52-11-2)
BCHL (17 teams, 60 games)
Salmon Arm - 85 (42-17-1-0)
Cowichan Valley - 85 (38-13-4-5)
Surrey - 82 (38-16-1-5)
Nanaimo - 82 (37-15-2-6)
Vernon - 82 (37-15-1-7)
Chilliwack - 76 (36-20-0-4)
Williams Lake - 67 (31-24-1-4)
Coquitlam - 66 (32-26-1-1)
Merritt - 62 (29-27-0-4)
Powell River - 61 (26-25-2-7)
Trail - 60 (26-26-0-8)
Alberni Valley - 58 (27-29-0-4)
Prince George - 58 (24-26-3-7)
Victoria - 56 (25-29-3-3)
Penticton - 54 (22-28-1-9)
Langley - 43 (19-36-1-4)
Quesnel - 25 (10-45-1-4)
As you can see, both leagues had one team who was completely out of it, and one team who was not quite with the rest....And looking at the standings, I would say the WHL was just as competitive, if not slightly more competitive than the BCHL. Aside from the bottom two teams (REG, SAS), and other than the 6-point discrepancy between the top two teams (KEL, MH), there is a core group of 9 teams within 8 points of each other.
The BCHL had a group of 5 teams solid at the top, a core group relatively close together, Langley not quite in that core group, and Quesnel right out of it just as bad as Saskatoon was in the WHL.
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VOB, you have no clue what your talking about. A lot of scholarships are worth more than $100,000, for example a scholarhip to BC is worth about $160,000 to $170,000. As far as only about half the kids being on scholarhip, each team gives out 18, do you know of any hockey team with 36 players? It should be noted that most schools split scholarships so not all kids get full rides and there are very few players who don't get anything. As for my main point, the main difference between the CHL is age, there is a huge difference between a kid who is 18 and a man who is 22.
I hope you're not holding your breath on that one. All I have to say is that would be awesome to have a dub team here. Too bad all we get is frigging ECHL...spamojones said:Here here!
Victoria Salmon Kings? No thanks. I'll stick to my BCHL for now.
I can still dream for the dub to come back right?
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