The Battle of the Hs: Hartford vs Hanshin!

[Say Hey Kid]

Hartford

Manager: Bobby Cox (has just been ejected)

Catcher: Mike Piazza (R) / Joe Mauer (L)
First Base: Todd Helton (L)
Second Base: Jackie Robinson (R)
Third Base: Scott Rolen (R) / Edgar Martinez (R)
Shortstop: Alex Rodriguez (R) / Barry Larkin (R)

Left Field: Tim Raines (S) / Ralph Kiner (R)
Center Field: Mike Trout (R) / Kenny Lofton (L)
Right Field: Roberto Clemente (R) / Larry Walker (L)

Rotation
1. Roger Clemens (R)
2. Greg Maddux (R)
3. Sandy Koufax (L)
4. Kevin Brown (R)
5. Mickey Lolich (L)

Bullpen
Dennis Eckersley (R)
Hoyt Wilhelm (R)
Billy Wagner (L)
Aroldis Chapman (L)
Tom Henke (R)
Masaichi Kaneda (L)

Lineup:

Raines (S) 123 OPS+ / .385 OB% / 808 SB
Clemente (R) 130 OPS+ / .359 OB% / 240 HR
Rodriguez (R) 140 OPS+ / .380 OB% / 696 HR
Piazza(R) 142 OPS+ / .377 OB% / 427 HR
Helton (L) 133 OPS+ / .414 OB% / 369 HR
Trout (R) 174 OPS+ / .415 OB% / 231 HR / 186 SB
Robinson (R) 132 OPS+ / .409 OB% / 134 HR / 197 SB
Rolen (R) 122 OPS+ / .364 OB% / 316 HR

VERSUS
​

Hanshin Tigers

Managed by: Joe Torre

C Thurman Munson
1B Albert Pujols (R)
2B Robinson Cano (L)
3B Chipper Jones (S)
SS Alan Trammell (R)
LF Barry Bonds (L)
CF Mickey Mantle (S)
RF Frank Robinson (R)

Bench Sadaharu Oh
Bench Buster Posey
Bench Dave Winfield
Bench Mark Teixera

SP Warren Spahn (L)
SP John Smoltz (R)
SP Justin Verlander (R)
SP Max Scherzer (R)
SP Fergie Jenkins


CLOSER Kent Tekulve
RP Dave Righetti (L)
RP Jonathan Papelbon (R)
RP Willie Hernandez (R)
RP Roy Face (R)
RP John Hiller (L)
RP Terry Forster (L)
​

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[Vegeta]

It all comes down to who has the greater gap imo. I think the difference between my lineup and his are greater than the differences between our rotations. Both bullpens are damn solid, but I just think that his offense is a little too weak after Piazza.

 

[Winger for Hire]

First off, Vegeta, good luck. Love the lineup you've put around Bonds.

That being said, this is another match-up where Piazza's arm shouldn't hurt too much. While I don't agree that the bottom of my lineup is weak overall, it is weaker in power, but as I mentioned in other match-ups, the overall hitting prowess and versatility of the bottom should make up for a lot of that.

I will be going with a three man rotation- Clemens, Koufax, Maddux- and will not hesitate to dip into the pen. Especially with my heavy hitting lefties to match-up against Bonds when needed.

Pretty much everything will be as it was the previous two rounds.

As far as the gaps go between the two teams, I think my starting pitching gap is slightly bigger than Vegeta thinks. Span and Clemens lineup fair even, but Maddux and Koufax a tier above Verlander and Smoltz. The hitting advantage in terms of power does go to Vegeta, but my team can make that up by pressuring those OFers but taking extra bases and you bet your ass we'll be making Bonds throw home. Lots of gap power in my lineup will look to really expose the relative immobile OF and let Raines and Trout really unwind those legs. A lack of real speed should allow plenty of time for my infielders to roll double plays and Clemente's arm to keep runners in check.

As Wrigley pointed out, the big battle will be my marquee starters vs his power plant middle of the order. I think my pitching, defense, and versatile lineup should be enough to carry the series, but I don't expect it to be easy.

 

[Winger for Hire]

You gotta let it go Wrigs

 

[Say Hey Kid]

The purpose of this time period (and the ATD itself) is to discuss and compare the players.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Dan Brothers has an OPS+ of 171. Higher than Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Nap Lajoie, Honus Wagner, and others by 14 or more points. I don't think anyone would argue Brothers is a better hitter than any of them.

Dick Allen has a 156 OPS+. Sliding down 14 or more points we come to Chipper Jones, Eddie Collins, Piazza, Vlad, ARod, Duke Snider. Again, I doubt you'll find anyone arguing Allen over any of them.

Ralph Kiner and Mr Pujols have the same OPS+, but I think we can agree that Pujols is the superior hitter.

Speaking of Kiner, are you familiar with ̶G̶r̶e̶e̶n̶b̶e̶r̶g̶'̶s̶ ̶G̶a̶r̶d̶e̶n̶s̶ Kiner's Corner at Forbes? That got Kiner into the HoF with the home field advantage that rivaled Coors. And clicking over the the splits.... 90 pt slugging difference between home and road as well as a 124 pt OPS difference.

Using a single stat to declare one player is a better hitter than the other is just lazy, as is acting like Coors Field is the only factor that has ever made a difference in a player's production. We're not even factoring in things like the mound being lowered after the Year of the Pitcher, changes in the baseball, changes in pitcher usage, etc that have affected play just as much.

This also probably is better discussed outside of the series thread.

 

[NJDevs26]

Results are in...after each team's LCS wars, Hartford flexed its muscle winning a five-game series to take the title as once again great pitching trumped great hitting in a postseason series. Although Hartford again won both of Koufax's starts, this time it was Roberto Clemente who took series MVP honors, hitting .411 with 8 RBI's and two key outfield assists in the five games.

Congrats to Winger!

 

[Winger for Hire]

Nice battle, Vegeta.

 

[Vegeta]

That rotation was too formidable in the end. Great job Winger. Congrats!

 

[Say Hey Kid]

As Pwnasaurus said "but of greater importance is to honor the history of baseball and the players that have shaped the game, from the early beginnings to the present day."

 

[Winger for Hire]

No one ever said that he was