The Avalanche are what the Leafs and Oilers were supposed to become

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Fivealive5, May 31, 2021.

  1. BB88 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    33,222
    Likes Received:
    10,885
    Trophy Points:
    176
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    If you are signing you would have had to get him to a 8 year deal.
    5 years with that money is and was absolutely insane.

    Only McDavid was getting that kind of money and he was on max term and wayyyy better than Matthews.
    Dubas just gave Matthews whatever he wanted without negotiations.

    Just straight up gave UFA contract/money to RFA player

    Adding Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Andersen in 1 offseason might have played a part in their turnaround, not just Matthews

    How were they not favourites against Columbus?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  2. Sanchise90 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    37
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    As a Stars fan, I'd like to say us. The only top 3 pick we've had in recent memory was Heiskanen and we moved up through fluky lottery luck to select there...
     
    GirardSpinorama likes this.
  3. Sanchise90 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    37
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm gonna preface what I say by stating I give all the credit in the world to Jared Bednar and Joe Sakic. That being said, what Colorado built and developed also came with a lot of luck and timing as well. Those are honestly the main differences between the Avs and the Leafs/Oilers:

    1) Nathan MacKinnon going from a 0.75 PPG player before signing his deal to then becoming a top 3 player in the NHL after signing his deal. That allowed the Avs to get him at a massive discount and use that money towards resources elsewhere. To get that quality of play on that price can't be understated. The Oilers and Leafs had to pay their stars like stars because they performed like top 10 players in the NHL prior to getting their deals done. In some capacity, that's affected their ability to fill the surrounding pieces

    2) The year the Avs had the worst record in the league and worst in the cap era until Detroit last year, they slipped to 4th . That year, the draft 1 and 2 was basically between Nolan Patrick and Nico Hischier. I remember cause the Stars finished 3rd in the lottery and the media was lamenting not being able to select either. I mean the trajectory changes a lot if the Avs stay at 1...

    3) Just the timing of the contracts. Combine MacKinnon's discount with Makar's entry level, Landeskog and Grubauer not hitting FA this year and you're able to fill that with surplus talent relative to other teams. Other teams don't get the luxuries provided by timing there. Remember when the Blackhawks were constantly jettisoning players to get under cap restraints during their cup years? Guys like Byfuglien, Versteeg, Leddy, Boychuk...

    I give Sakic a lot of credit for filling the holes in the roster (i.e. acquiring Graves, Toews, Doonskoi), but the Avs becoming what they were aren't an indictment on the Leafs or Oilers. It's not an apples to apples comparison. It just shows an optimal outcome of when good drafting and trading meets luck and timing.
     
    Oilers 322 and AUAIOMRN like this.
  4. SaltNPeca Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Occupation:
    nerd
    Location:
    Köln
    I think Makar, the Avs D-Core, and their upcoming D-prospects are underrated. Lots of talent there & totally different approach than say Montreal. Edmonton has some good D-prospects, but the Avs are very strong in this position with speedy, high hockey IQ puck movers.

    Especially w/ Makar & MacKinnon out it seems like such a cohesive 5-man unit. Dunno how many MacKinnon goals I've seen lately from the left point or these tic-tac-toe (always the same names in the box scores).

    The 2018 offseason trade and immediate signing of Grubauer is an example of good asset management.
     
  5. Islay1989 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,448
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    What's integral to the Avs success is having good two-way forwards across the whole 4 lines, they skate well, they compete at a high degree, they backcheck relentlessly, and always on the puck. Bednar turned Nate from a one-dimensional volume shooter who took poor shots into a driver who backchecks like a madman. Castoffs like Nuke or Calvert are given roles they fit well, Nuke was turned into a defensive specialist, a guy who uses his speed and size to hound defensemen on the forecheck and backchecks like crazy turning him into a top tier defensive winger, Calvert was an emotional leader whose energy set the tone and they try to replace guys like that with others who play a similar game - O'Connor, Ranta ... The most lethargic players on the roster are probably Compher and Kadri and even they aren't soft.

    They also don't throw away the puck needlessly, dump and chase is the last resort. You attack the neutral zone with speed, penetrate it and outnumber the defense. What their speed also does is it forces the defensive pair to sit back which allows easier entry, and if you try to defend the blue line they have sets that allow Nate and others to get behind the D for odd-man rushes.

    But the most important thing, that they lacked in the past, is having viable puck-moving defensemen on every single pairing. They even have multiple high-end ones per single pairing. And every single one of them is at worst an above-average defender as well when talking about the top 4. With how they are playing now they have Makar, Girard and Toews who are all high-end transition D and while Graves isn't a prototypical puck-mover and people see his size they tend to think of someone who sits back, he's at his best when given a bit of a free roam. He can be frustrating and a bit too confident in which cases Makar or another defensive partner actually stays back while Graves pinches or carries. Then you have Timmins who had struggled at times this season, but started to play better as time went on, as another guy who can move the puck effectively. McDonald is an interesting option for Seattle, because both his analytics and the eye test suggest he is a pretty damn good NHL D, albeit a late bloomer. The only regular with below-average - he is quite poor actually - puck skills is Nemeth, whose role is to eat minutes on PK and play a low event game at ES. If Byram or EJ feature back in you'd get:

    Graves - Makar
    Girard - Toews
    Byram - Timmins/EJ
    Nemeth - McDonald

    That's an absurd amount of PMDs who are all very good in their own end. Even if EJ doesn't come back from his concussion and Graves is lost in the ED you had all of that plus Barron and Helleson.
     
    Steerpike and slobbergob like this.
  6. Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    46,074
    Likes Received:
    8,459
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Drone
    Location:
    South Rectangle
    Does mounds of coke?
     
  7. Divine ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    10,217
    Likes Received:
    1,873
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 10,000
    Play ins weren’t playoffs. The last playoff game you won was in 2017 and you’re talking about series wins :laugh:
     
  8. smokes lets go Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,021
    Likes Received:
    763
    Trophy Points:
    129
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Im veeeeeery curious to see how he manages the salary cap with regards to landeskog, makar, and grubauer this summer. Sakic and co have done a fantastic job building this team for success, and now that big pay days are going to start to trickle in, the big challenges start. NM still has a few years on his insanely value deal so it wouldnt surprise me to see them put all their chips onto the table before he needs a new contract.
     
  9. GirardSpinorama Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    15,235
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    Trophy Points:
    247
    SB Cash:
    $ 210,000
    I don't think the NM contract matters that much. We have EJ's contract coming off in the same year. We played the entire season pretty much with that contract as dead space. What matters more is really how long the prime years of the players are and ensuring a decent about of overlap. Makar in his prime at roughly age 25 while Mack is still under 30 is probably when the Avs need to go all in.
     
  10. Howboutthempanthers Thread killer. Sponsor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    14,742
    Likes Received:
    2,586
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Brow. County, Fl.
    The outside pressure in Toronto is too great. The Oilers were mismanaged for a long time, it's a lot to undo there.
     
  11. tucker3434 HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    17,093
    Likes Received:
    6,067
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    We have a handful of guys that are decent players that make decent money. Kadri, Graves, and Donskoi should all be pretty easy to move if necessary. Compher and EJ would be a bit more challenging but they also expire the same year Mack needs his raise. Both Byram and Newhook could be good-impact ELC’s the next couple years. When their ELC’s expire, things start to get really tricky.

    But unless Byram or Newhook make really big leaps before the end of their ELC’s, this is the deepest team we’ll have.
     
  12. falconski Unregistered User

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    11,147
    Likes Received:
    888
    Trophy Points:
    169
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    In fairness for 2), I believe our scouting department said we had Heiskanen and Makar 1/2 for 2017 (I don't think they said who they had #1, which meant that it was probably Heiskanen)
     
  13. Ararana Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2013
    Messages:
    10,447
    Likes Received:
    12,043
    Trophy Points:
    192
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Two Rivers
    MacKinnon --- Makar
    Rantanan --- Girard
    Landeskog --- Toews
    Kadri -- Byram

    The Avs are as balanced as they are skilled. Hockey is played on both sides of the ice.

    Credit to Sakic for building that balance and not pigeon holing himself into four forwards at any cost. "We can and we will". Thank god the Avs dodge a bullet and Dubas stayed in Toronto.
     
  14. gr8haluschak Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    146
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Man did this age well, seems to me they are just like the Oilers and Leafs
     
    KidLine93 likes this.
  15. WolvesAndWings Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,612
    Likes Received:
    1,583
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    No, it's still correct lol. The Avalanche are exactly what the Leafs and Oilers are supposed to become. Teams that fizzle out in the second round instead of the first.
     
  16. McAsuno 5-14-6-1

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    20,070
    Likes Received:
    8,604
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Amazing thread aged well, magnifique
     
  17. Jee Kotkaniemi :.D

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    27,786
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Occupation:
    Front-End Developer
    Location:
    Montréal
    yeah, they are exactly what the leafs and the oilers have become.
     
    Rabid Ranger likes this.
  18. soothsayer Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,974
    Likes Received:
    3,488
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Boy, Colorado fans sure are chronically quick on the gun. How embarrassing.
     
  19. rager Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2021
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    can't wait to become perennial second round exits!
     
  20. QJL Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    4,333
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    They lost to another top 3 team in the league. Still a fantastic team with tons of potential to win for a decade.
     
  21. Sky04 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    25,120
    Likes Received:
    11,558
    Trophy Points:
    206
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    They are still much, much better than the Oilers or the Leafs. Leafs star players can never show up, Oilers star players can't play defense, once the Av's tweak their depth they'll be champs, they're very similar to the early Lightning.
     
  22. gr8haluschak Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    146
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Ha tweak thier line up, man where has the hockey world heard that before. Sounds just like the same comments made by oilers and leafs fans, just a a d man here or a winger there.
     
  23. Sky04 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    25,120
    Likes Received:
    11,558
    Trophy Points:
    206
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Adding bottom 6 forwards is far easier than finding #1 dmen and top line wingers but surely you knew that or maybe not.
     
  24. Sempiternal Tzar of Toxicity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,866
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Avalanche defense core showed their inexperience the past few games. Still going to be a scary team for years to come though.
     
  25. Volcanologist Used Register

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    26,139
    Likes Received:
    4,522
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Toronto
    yeah thank god
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"