The Avalanche are what the Leafs and Oilers were supposed to become

[Jozay]

While that's defenitely possible, the key here is Sakic hasn't traded first Rd picks to bolster his current depth. Leaving room for good players on elcs to continue to make the team and hopefully extend the window. The key is making sure they draft well in the first of course.

Yeah, not sure how well they've drafted, but that'll be key.

 

[KidLine93]

When looking at the oilers you gotta look way way back to understand what happened. A string of really bad decisions and a poorly run franchise left them completely devoid of assets leading up to their string of first overalls. Then they got impatient and fired a lot of coaches and GMs kept trying to make that one move to make them a contender. Lots of poor drafting and a poor development system compounded with overpaying too many players and making bad trades meant they were just holding on.

Chia made some poor assed trades and gave out some bad contracts but at least the team drafted a lot better under him and you are starting to see some of those guys make it. The key to success has always been home grown talent, Edmonton just never really got that message before. At least now you can look at their draft picks who are contributing to the team and see the ones on the cusp of making it and feel like there is some foundation being built.

I just look at the Reinhart trade for. 16th OA and 2nd rounder which could both be pieces that contribute today. The money from the lucic deal and then the day before his firing doing the unforced Koskinen deal and wonder why we needed to rush for a playoff push back in 2017 or approve of him signing a contract when he was already on the verge of termination and then be left with a bunch of boat anchor contracts for McDavids prime years. So many major management blunders that Holland is still trying to work round. This off season Holland shows if he's really prepared because we get some contacts off the books and he can decide what pieces are worth keeping or getting rid of. McDrai are only signed for 5 more years I think so these next deals for support players will take up whats left of their contracts.

 

[Greek_physique]

Biggest difference for me.....Colorado actually has good dmen and invested in that position.

While there top line is scary, it makes life that much easier when you can solidify that style with elite / solid dmen.

 

[North Cole]

Solid moves and excellent timing. The Duchene trade coincided with the collapse of Ottawa (who had similar luck with Karlsson), thus getting them a better than expected pick. Identifying good defenseman and giving them time to develop, either lower in the depth chart or not in the NHL. In a word - Patience.

The biggest thing is not rushing the rebuild, which is where Chiarelli failed, and I'd argue Dubas failed with the Tavares signing. Dubas has traded away like 6 of the last 8 first round picks, so there's no real help coming from within at this point. Holland has his warts, but I've been happy that we haven't rushed Broberg, Bouchard, or Mcleod. Normally Edmonton management just chucks prospects to the wolves...I think if he actually makes some smart moves at the deadline and brings in a capable goalie, we can just focus on making the playoffs and not rushing or going "all in", let's see the team win some games in the playoffs first before we start selling the future like the Leafs. We have an opportunity to develop some young forwards that can actually make an impact in the next 2 years, plus cap space. We need a medium term good starter and see what we have in Konovalov.

I can't see us hitting grand slams like Makar, but if our two Dmen can take the next step and we can fix the goalie situation, we have a good opportunity of consistently challenging in the playoffs. I get that everyone is doom and gloom about McDavids prime, but we have a chance to actually complete the rebuild if we don't throw it all away in the next 2 years. We can retool the roster this year to be a little more competitive going into next season, expect to make the playoffs and keep building. Impatience is what f***ed us last time. If the Avs can spend half of Mackinnons uber team freindly contract, getting better season by season and staying patient, so can the Oilers with McDavid's prime.

 

[Miri]

Avalanche have better taken advantage of their star players being cheap.

Landeskog and Makar this offseason, Mackinnon in a couple years. They'll obviously still be really good, but probably not nearly as deep as they are now.

Thats why it would be prudent to win the Cup this year already :-P

 

[Pucklington]

The Avalanche were a tire fire up until 2017. They are 2 years ahead of Edmonton, and 3 ahead of TML.

While Edm/TML deserve criticism, it is important when talking about how good Colorado is, their journey to this point was far from perfect.

 

[Machinehead]

MacKinnon signed his contract when he was scoring in the 50's. That probably helps.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The Avalanche were a tire fire up until 2017. They are 2 years ahead of Edmonton, and 3 ahead of TML.

While Edm/TML deserve criticism, it is important when talking about how good Colorado is, their journey to this point was far from perfect.

That part always seems to be forgotten now that they are good. It wasn't so long ago that they had one for the worst seasons ever.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Contracts...Avs players have bought in or the timing was right so a little luck. Also the Avs have hit 4 grand slam picks with their top D, and entire top line. The depth on Colorado is so much better than either team. Even the Islanders are deeper than both...

 

[Machinehead]

The Avalanche were a tire fire up until 2017. They are 2 years ahead of Edmonton, and 3 ahead of TML.

While Edm/TML deserve criticism, it is important when talking about how good Colorado is, their journey to this point was far from perfect.

We just talked about this on the Rangers board. Somebody said "I hope we rebuild like Colorado" and I was just like "be prepared to be good in 2026 then."

They'll say it was all worth it if they win the Cup but be ready for it is what I'm saying, and don't write off rebuilds that haven't been on that long.

 

[Rorschach]

The answer is, when the GM has vision and the ownership is in sync, rebuilds will be successful.

See: Chicago Blackhawks/LA Kings/Detroit Redwings

Sometimes you can luck your way in, a la Pittsburgh Penguins/Quebec Nordiques-90s Avalanche

But all of the luck in the world won’t help if the GM has no vision and ownership interferes, see Edmonton.

 

[Muffin]

We just talked about this on the Rangers board. Somebody said "I hope we rebuild like Colorado" and I was just like "be prepared to be good in 2026 then."

They'll say it was all worth it if they win the Cup but be ready for it is what I'm saying, and don't write off rebuilds that haven't been on that long.

Rangers already have their top picks. Question is if guys like Kakko and Lafreniere pan out.

 

[Machinehead]

Rangers already have their top picks. Question is if guys like Kakko and Lafreniere pan out.

The Avs drafted MacKinnon in 2013 and Landeskog in 2011.

If we're contending the same number of years after drafting Lafreniere it would be 2028 and 2030 respectively.

 

[Voight]

They locked in Mack while he was looking like a huge disappointment #1. Landeskog was also given a long term deal at a really good number. Their drafting has also been great. Then theres the sneaky good moves like acquiring Girard + Burakovsky.

 

[Pucklington]

Rangers already have their top picks. Question is if guys like Kakko and Lafreniere pan out.

Colorado had most of their core for a few years, and were historically bad team in 2017. Good teams progression isn't linear.

Rangers having these players doesn't guarantee a thing. They have good young players, but there are teams with better young players struggling (Edm/TML). Well see what happens.

 

[Voight]

Solid moves and excellent timing. The Duchene trade coincided with the collapse of Ottawa (who had similar luck with Karlsson), thus getting them a better than expected pick. Identifying good defenseman and giving them time to develop, either lower in the depth chart or not in the NHL. In a word - Patience.

The biggest thing is not rushing the rebuild, which is where Chiarelli failed, and I'd argue Dubas failed with the Tavares signing. Dubas has traded away like 6 of the last 8 first round picks, so there's no real help coming from within at this point. Holland has his warts, but I've been happy that we haven't rushed Broberg, Bouchard, or Mcleod. Normally Edmonton management just chucks prospects to the wolves...I think if he actually makes some smart moves at the deadline and brings in a capable goalie, we can just focus on making the playoffs and not rushing or going "all in", let's see the team win some games in the playoffs first before we start selling the future like the Leafs. We have an opportunity to develop some young forwards that can actually make an impact in the next 2 years, plus cap space. We need a medium term good starter and see what we have in Konovalov.

I can't see us hitting grand slams like Makar, but if our two Dmen can take the next step and we can fix the goalie situation, we have a good opportunity of consistently challenging in the playoffs. I get that everyone is doom and gloom about McDavids prime, but we have a chance to actually complete the rebuild if we don't throw it all away in the next 2 years. We can retool the roster this year to be a little more competitive going into next season, expect to make the playoffs and keep building. Impatience is what f***ed us last time. If the Avs can spend half of Mackinnons uber team freindly contract, getting better season by season and staying patient, so can the Oilers with McDavid's prime.

Disagree here. If you have a chance to sign a player of that caliber, you do it. They also got him 1-2 million less than the other teams were offering. While he certainly wasn't a necessary add, hard to say no when you get a chance to sign a top forward.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The Avs drafted MacKinnon in 2013 and Landeskog in 2011.

If we're contending the same number of years after drafting Lafreniere it would be 2028 and 2030 respectively.

Im pretty sure the Rangers rebuild will be a lot quicker. The Avs had a ton of roster turnover between 2011-2017 not to mention two coaching changes in that span. I don't foresee that happening to the Rangers roster. Will be interesting to see who Dru hires to be the bench boss because that roster is not that far away imo.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Solid moves and excellent timing. The Duchene trade coincided with the collapse of Ottawa (who had similar luck with Karlsson), thus getting them a better than expected pick. Identifying good defenseman and giving them time to develop, either lower in the depth chart or not in the NHL. In a word - Patience.

The biggest thing is not rushing the rebuild, which is where Chiarelli failed, and I'd argue Dubas failed with the Tavares signing. Dubas has traded away like 6 of the last 8 first round picks, so there's no real help coming from within at this point. Holland has his warts, but I've been happy that we haven't rushed Broberg, Bouchard, or Mcleod. Normally Edmonton management just chucks prospects to the wolves...I think if he actually makes some smart moves at the deadline and brings in a capable goalie, we can just focus on making the playoffs and not rushing or going "all in", let's see the team win some games in the playoffs first before we start selling the future like the Leafs. We have an opportunity to develop some young forwards that can actually make an impact in the next 2 years, plus cap space. We need a medium term good starter and see what we have in Konovalov.

I can't see us hitting grand slams like Makar, but if our two Dmen can take the next step and we can fix the goalie situation, we have a good opportunity of consistently challenging in the playoffs. I get that everyone is doom and gloom about McDavids prime, but we have a chance to actually complete the rebuild if we don't throw it all away in the next 2 years. We can retool the roster this year to be a little more competitive going into next season, expect to make the playoffs and keep building. Impatience is what f***ed us last time. If the Avs can spend half of Mackinnons uber team freindly contract, getting better season by season and staying patient, so can the Oilers with McDavid's prime.

In Chia defense there was way more pressure to win now considering the decade of darkness. I didn't agree with the rushing rebuild but I understood it. Seems like Holland is doing it right the same way Sakic did after Roy bailed. Broberg and Bouchard should be great for many years. That Holloway kid has been impressive.

 

[Machinehead]

Im pretty sure the Rangers rebuild will be a lot quicker. The Avs had a ton of roster turnover between 2011-2017 not to mention two coaching changes in that span. I don't foresee that happening to the Rangers roster. Will be interesting to see who Dru hires to be the bench boss because that roster is not that far away imo.

Yeah, we're pretty close.

I just hope they don't bring in a bunch of idiots for "muh physicality." The Rangers need forecheckers and good defensive forwards, not guys racking up penalty minutes. During Quinn's tenure, the Rangers led the league in penalties.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Avalanche have nailed drafting, trades and free agency over the last handful of years. We've seen their evolution over the last 3 seasons and they are at peak form right now.

They locked in Mack while he was looking like a huge disappointment #1. Landeskog was also given a long term deal at a really good number. Their drafting has also been great. Then theres the sneaky good moves like acquiring Girard + Burakovsky.

Not to mention trading for Sadd, Grubauer, Graves, Toews, Nemeth, etc. With the exception of Zadorov for Sadd, none of the other trades subtracted from their NHL roster.

 

[Avsfan1921]

I'm very excited and love the way this team is built and the style they play. Bednar is, to me, the perfect coach for this squad. Sakic has made some very savvy moves to shore up depth.


But as of yet, they've accomplished no more than either the Leafs or Oil. Hopefully that changes starting this year.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Yeah, we're pretty close.

I just hope they don't bring in a bunch of idiots for "muh physicality." The Rangers need forecheckers and good defensive forwards, not guys racking up penalty minutes. During Quinn's tenure, the Rangers led the league in penalties.

Quinn was a disaster but a disaster that was obvious. That guy was so wrong for that roster in so many ways its no wonder the Rangers went on that crazy scoring spree those games where he wasnt behind the bench haha. I tuned into a lot of Ranger games this past season mainly to watch Laffy and Kakko. The Rangers looked like a team coached by Dallas Eakins when Eakins was the Oilers coach. Trying to turn Nail yakupov into a shot blocking two way forward.

 

[El Travo]

That part always seems to be forgotten now that they are good. It wasn't so long ago that they had one for the worst seasons ever.

Nobody has forgotten that the Avalanche had a historically bad season before turning it around.

This is the equivalent of people telling others how Viggo Mortensen broke his toe when kicking a helmet during filming of the Lord of the Rings. No, it's not a little known fact. Yes, most of us know about it.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Avalanche have nailed drafting, trades and free agency over the last handful of years. We've seen their evolution over the last 3 seasons and they are at peak form right now.

Not to mention trading for Sadd, Grubauer, Graves, Toews, Nemeth, etc. With the exception of Zadorov for Sadd, none of the other trades subtracted from their NHL roster.

They have nailed their first round picks but outside that no they haven't. Work needs to be done and its probably why Hepple just got relieved. There are promising players outside the first round right now but the Avs roster is filled with first round picks that they drafted or other teams drafted. Connor Timmins was an Avs second round pick and hes on the roster. Sampo Ranta was a third rounder and played his first game the other night and that's pretty much it.

 

[Divine]

The Avalanche were a tire fire up until 2017. They are 2 years ahead of Edmonton, and 3 ahead of TML.

While Edm/TML deserve criticism, it is important when talking about how good Colorado is, their journey to this point was far from perfect.

Wait, so the Leafs that finished higher than the Oilers and won more playoff games (with an $11M player injured 9 mins into the series) are behind the Oilers?

Probably 5 years ahead of Buffalo and 7 ahead of Edmonton.