The Avalanche are what the Leafs and Oilers were supposed to become

[Three On Zero]

That changes this off season and then again in another year. That number will be significantly higher in a short period of time. The Avs were extremely fortunate that Mack signed that deal when he was on the precipice of being a bust.

MacKinnon already came out and said he would be willing to sign another team friendly contract

 

[Three On Zero]

Chia tried to build the Oilers to be like the Kings + Ducks... big, slow, physical. i.e Maroon, Lucic, Gryba, Larsson, Pouliot, Hendricks, Kassian, etc.

I don't think Oilers were on pace to be anything like the Avs. Holland is trying transform the team into something more skilled and faster (hence signing the fast Euros).

Chia was trying to replicate the 2011 bruins and failed miserably

 

[Satire]

What happened? Why did one core excel where the others are flailing?

Have you met Peter Chiarelli before? This is 100% a management issue with the Oilers. We'll see if Holland can right the ship in time but Chia didn't exactly leave him with a lot of assets or cap space to play with...

Chia tried to build the Oilers to be like the Kings + Ducks... big, slow, physical. i.e Maroon, Lucic, Gryba, Larsson, Pouliot, Hendricks, Kassian, etc.

I don't think Oilers were on pace to be anything like the Avs. Holland is trying transform the team into something more skilled and faster (hence signing the fast Euros).

You might be right, but I don't think that's the case. I think he was trying to fill whatever holes he could with the limited cap space he had. I think his strategy was dealing from a position of quantity not quality. If he signs enough of these guys, he's sure to have a couple decent hits and some of his bets were quite correct. I think we'll know exactly what kind of team Holland wants to build in the next 2 years. I just hope to god it's a more balanced one... Certainly there is some positives coming out of the upcoming prospects at least, but whether that fully translates into the NHL still remains to be seen.

 

[Aurinko]

1. Actually ultra solid D-core , where Makar is just icing on the cake
2. Healthy F-core with depth
3. Hitting tons of good/great signings
4. Drafts and trades that are turning out homeruns

Sakic seems to take most of the thanks, but from what I understand (like yesterdays Bellemare interview), there are also assisting GM's that are very close to the players. Plus it's starting to look obvious that Bednar isn't just good with players, he seems to be a great tactician also.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Makar and the defense and goaltending is why Colorado is truly elite and Edmonton and Toronto are just good teams.

 

[Mobiandi]

The environments are different. The Leafs and Oilers get nationwide coverage and those organizations are guilty of reading their press clippings and believing their regular season hype. The Avs don't get that covered like that so there's no incentive for them to make any panic moves or care much about regular season accolades. The perspective they hold is more about the long-term so they're better equipped for the post-season

 

[WarriorofTime]

Chiarelli is just kind of an idiot generally, and Dubas messed up the Leafs cap.

 

[Islay1989]

I don't really think it's that much about management. The Avs, like most franchises, lives and dies with their core players. They have one of the best, if not the best, line in hockey with Landeskog, MacKinnon and Rantanen, and then on top of that they got a Norris Trophy candidate in Cale Makar who stepped in completely seamlessly to the NHL. The rest of their team is really nothing special. They lucked out in the draft finding the right players, similar to the Hawks with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook. That's really it.

Oilers don't have a core. They have two superstars and nothing else. Hall, RNH, Yakupov were all super disappointing picks despite being the consensus picks in those spots. As for the Leafs, they haven't found that game-changing defenseman to shore up the blueline, and they obviously screwed up big time with their massive deals to their core players. But in the end it comes down to having the right mix of players and the Leafs simply don't have it. They have a bunch of egoistic superstars who are only looking out for themselves. That's not a winning recipe. Avs on the other hand is a team through and through.

Oilers could have been where the Avs are now if Chiarelli hadn't traded away his picks in 2015 for Griffin f***ing Reinhart. They should've had one of Barzal, Connor and Chabot plus a good depth forward in that draft and that would've made all the difference. Oilers would be a different team today and have the depth required to compete. The Reinhart trade set the Oilers back years and they basically have no other option now than to wait until Bouchard, Broberg and Holloway becomes impact players before they can compete.

Nothing special? Yeah, a #1D in Girard, another top pairing D in Toews, Grubauer who hasn't lost a playoff game in two seasons, one of the better defensive wingers in the game in Nuke are nothing special folks, they just lucked into drafting the right players. Sakic didn't go out and get the entire 2nd line in one offseason, no, the players just magically fell from the sky. Just as Saad did, or Devon Toews, or Nuke, or Grubauer, or Donskoi, or Kadri etc ...

 

[Zaddy]

Nothing special? Yeah, a #1D in Girard, another top pairing D in Toews, Grubauer who hasn't lost a playoff game in two seasons, one of the better defensive wingers in the game in Nuke are nothing special folks, they just lucked into drafting the right players. Sakic didn't go out and get the entire 2nd line in one offseason, no, the players just magically fell from the sky. Just as Saad did, or Devon Toews, or Nuke, or Grubauer, or Donskoi, or Kadri etc ...

They're all good players of course, but you could replace them with other players in this league and Avs would still win, because that's how good the top line + Makar is. Obviously I'm not arguing that they're gonna carry a bunch of fourth liners and bottom-pair D all by themselves but my point is that you could put them on practically any other team (while removing that teams core players) and they'd be just as successful. Swap Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak and McAvoy for the Colorado four. Is either team any different than before? Depth is not completely inconsequential but a team isn't going anywhere without getting that high-end talent through the draft that becomes your core guys. It's that simple.

 

[Raym11]

Makar and the defense and goaltending is why Colorado is truly elite and Edmonton and Toronto are just good teams.

All you have to do is look at Mackinnon's playoff stats. The best forwards for the Avs are just built and modeled around high skill and intensity. Leafs don't have anyone like Landeskog or Mack.

Mackinnon has killer instinct and the extra gear that so many elite players lack in the playoffs.

Makar is lightyears ahead of anything the Leafs have defensively, but their problem vs the Habs was the best players got shutdown because they don't have the intensity or drive to create chances they'd normally get in the regular season.

Not trying to slight Makar because he's MVP level play, but the Avs are just better across the board, and it's not close

 

[Islay1989]

They're all good players of course, but you could replace them with other players in this league and Avs would still win, because that's how good the top line + Makar is. Obviously I'm not arguing that they're gonna carry a bunch of fourth liners and bottom-pair D all by themselves but my point is that you could put them on practically any other team (while removing that teams core players) and they'd be just as successful. Swap Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak and McAvoy for the Colorado four. Is either team any different than before? Depth is not completely inconsequential but a team isn't going anywhere without getting that high-end talent through the draft that becomes your core guys. It's that simple.

And this line of thinking is why teams fail. If you can replace them with players as good as them, who fit the style the Avs play then yes, the Avs would be as good. Too bad real-life doesn't work like that.

 

[Drake1588]

Colorado managed to pay their stars reasonable dollars.

There is excellent secondary and tertiary depth in Colorado because they can afford it, and still maintain flexibility under the cap.

 

[DallasGaume]

Not much media or fan pressure to fix things quickly sure helped Sakic and the Avs.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Well the fact MacKinnon is making only 300k more than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins sums up the problem pretty well.

 

[BB88]

I guess you could say they are build for playoffs.
Mackinnon/Rantanen/Landeskog seem to thrive on those games.

Also when Marner was busy getting 10.9M contract Rantanen took a 9.25M contract at the same time.

In Colorado core players lead by example

 

[Rschmitz]

The Avalanche have won two playoff series in MacKinnon's career.

He has been in the league for 8 years.

This. Why are we acting like the Avalanche have accomplished anything? They look absolutely unstoppable right now, but things can change quickly in the NHL

 

[Aurinko]

This. Why are we acting like the Avalanche have accomplished anything? They look absolutely unstoppable right now, but things can change quickly in the NHL

The series they played against Dallas was the most entertaining hockey I've seen. For General fan of the game like me this is the major reason I watch games. Av's fighting effort was big reason why the series was such a pleasure to follow (obviously Dallas was also spectacular) .

 

[Bank Shot]

Even if MacKinnon was putting up 90+ point seasons since his sophomore year I still think he would've taken around $8M instead of $10-11M. He seems like he genuinely will make any sacrifice to win the Cup including money. Didn't he even offer Panarin his powerplay time if he'd sign with them? I look at "Playoff MacKinnon" as almost an equivalent to Kobe's Mamba Mentality - build winning habits and help your team and teammates to help yourself win.

Mackinnon didn't leave any money on the table when he signed his last contract.

Scheifele had better numbers in the same season and signed for less.
Marchand had better numbers and signed for less.
Panarin had substantially better numbers and signed for less.
Kucherov had better numbers and signed for substantially less.

Seems like people go off the reservation in order to make up story lines that are completely disconnected with reality.

 

[Bank Shot]

Colorado managed to pay their stars reasonable dollars.

There is excellent secondary and tertiary depth in Colorado because they can afford it, and still maintain flexibility under the cap.

Not next season though.

 

[Spirit of 67]

What happened? Why did one core excel where the others are flailing?

One core has 5 years on the other 2.

 

[klozge]

Avs need to win a couple of cups before they are what those two teams were supposed to become.

 

[The Macho King]

For all the "Avs contracts" and stuff like that -

The biggest difference is the Avs best players show up, while the Leafs wilt. Depth is why they're a contender, but not why they consistently make it past the first round. It's not Jonas Donskoi that is making the Avs hard to beat - it's Nathan MacKinnon.

Your best players have to be your best players. If Jason Spezza is your best player in the playoffs, it better be 2007.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

This is somewhat of an over-celebration. Yes, the Avs have looked incredible the past few games. It's the playoffs, however. Vegas can easily regroup, win the next few, and turn the narrative around.

 

[Plural]

Nathan MacKinnon and Mikko Rantanen have a combined playoffs statline of:

83GP 43+71 = 114 equals 1.373PPG

Matthews and Marner have a combined playoffs statline of:

64GP 18+31 = 49 equals 0.765PPG

That's just absurd difference.

 

[Aurinko]

For all the "Avs contracts" and stuff like that -

The biggest difference is the Avs best players show up, while the Leafs wilt. Depth is why they're a contender, but not why they consistently make it past the first round. It's not Jonas Donskoi that is making the Avs hard to beat - it's Nathan MacKinnon.

Your best players have to be your best players. If Jason Spezza is your best player in the playoffs, it better be 2007.

Spezza was a nice pickup, but veterans like Thorton & Foligno did not perform. They were imo acquired just to get the team over the playoff bump.

I'm sure they've had sport psychologist talks and tried to prep the team, but when it looks like team peaked at the wrong time or wasn't "ready", then of course the management has to carry responsibility as well.