The Athletic: Flames were worst forchecking team

[super6646]

How well does each team forecheck?



Guess that can partially explain our horrific offensive despite having a relatively good corsi. Also, peters carolina team was 4th best (just putting that out there).

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[DFF]

Flames sucked last year because of lack of talent up front and a coach that is either too stubborn or too stupid to adjust when things go bad.

Other than that

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Yeah other than Tkachuk, Ferland Frolik and Backlund who was good at the forecheck?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Everything about the Flames was passive last year. It was honestly the least interested I’ve been in our team for as long as I can remember, such uninspired hockey. Can’t wait for this season to start.

 

[JurassicTunga]

Canes were 4th best. So that's an area hopefully to look forward at getting better in with Peters.

 

[Anglesmith]

I would agree with this. We were better forechecking under Hartley, and we barely committed guys forward in those days.

 

[Lunatik]

We need a Darryl Sutter style forecheck

 

[Flames Fanatic]

We need a Darryl Sutter style forecheck

Don't know if we have the personnel for that, but I think we can pressure better using our speedy players. We've got a few guys that are beauties at intercepting passes as well, hopefully Peters can make it work.

 

[Mobiandi]

I remember the Canes' relentless forecheck against the Flames when they came to the Dome. The score might've been something like 2-1 but it flattered us a lot. The make-up of our team isn't all too different from the Canes so Peters can definitely mould the team to be better on that front

 

[Rangediddy]

Know who's pretty good on the forecheck... Bennett.

 

[King In The North]

Know who's pretty good on the forecheck... Bennett.

I'm not sure if you read the article but someone in the comments summarized the top pressure skaters (to no surprise really) were:

M Backlund
J Gaudreau
S Monahan
M Frolik
S Bennett

 

[InfinityIggy]

I am shocked.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Funny Ferland isn’t on that list.

 

[JPeeper]

I'm not sure if you read the article but someone in the comments summarized the top pressure skaters (to no surprise really) were:

M Backlund
J Gaudreau
S Monahan
M Frolik
S Bennett

Doesn't surprise me, Monahan rarely loses puck battles, Gaudreau has good hands and loses possession from dumb passes not battles, Backs and Fro both are smart board players and Bennett is relentless.

When your bottom 6 includes an over-the-hill Stajan, a trash Brouwer, a completely useless Lazar and Hathaway and the top 6 includes an over-rated Ferland it doesn't surprise me. Our 4th line literally had the puck for 15% of the time, they were always in their zone because they couldn't do f*** all.

Ignoring the players though, Gulutzan's system was wayyyy too passive. Playing games to get to OT, playing hockey to minimize mistakes rather than take risks (which is the opposite of what Peters employs) and other soft tactics is why we were pushed around so easily, it's why our games were for the most part boring to watch, it's why we couldn't score goals. This was a huge reason why the Flames sucked so much last year, horrible coaching tactics. Peters doesn't employ these tactics at all, he preaches players taking risks and doesn't like to play mistake free hockey because it kills creativity which is why it neutered Bennett so much, he took too many penalties because he played too aggressively then was in the dog house because of it.

 

[Baxterman]

Bennett so much, he took too many penalties because he played too aggressively then was in the dog house because of it.

Bennett took too many penalties because he reaches too much, instead of taking a few extra steps to catch up. It is why I think there is hope that he can correct it if he just stops always reaching out with his stick to take those cheap trip/hook/highstick calls in the offensive zone. If he cuts down on that he will get his PIMs down to a more reasonable level for a guy that plays like he does.

 

[SKRusty]

Too much look here has been done looking at players. A teams forchecking is a product of the coaching strategy. Since the coach has changed there will be little correlation between last year and this years line-up.

Forchecking is often a product of who the coach trusts or encourages to forcheck. GG's system did not allow for three people down low on the forcheck. The forcheck was not at all aggressive often just sending in 1 player and to flee as soon as it appeared the other team might get control.

Calgary's team puck pressure under GG was horrid. GG wanted to play the perfect defensive game stifling his most creative players. We all saw how that turned out.

Peters system in Carolina put much more pressure on the defensive team with much less overall talent in the line-up. Every analyst is salivating at the thought of seeing Peters with a talented line-up. With the moves in the offseason Calgary may be one of the most talented groups he has worked with.

 

[The Gnome]

I think Neal is definitely a candidate to help with that...Lindholm, not sure, some Canes fans say he's lazy away from the puck and others say he is a complete defensive player. So in reality he's probably decent I suspect. Ryan is another guy to help out the forechecking in the bottom six. Tre has done all he can from a roster standpoint, Peter's simply needs to have them execute. We should be a much better team this year as long as Peter's isn't a complete flop.

 

[Lunatik]

I think Neal is definitely a candidate to help with that...Lindholm, not sure, some Canes fans say he's lazy away from the puck and others say he is a complete defensive player. So in reality he's probably decent I suspect. Ryan is another guy to help out the forechecking in the bottom six. Tre has done all he can from a roster standpoint, Peter's simply needs to have them execute. We should be a much better team this year as long as Peter's isn't a complete flop.

Anyone claiming Lindholm is lazy away from the puck is blowing smoke up your ass

 

[SKRusty]

I think Neal is definitely a candidate to help with that...Lindholm, not sure, some Canes fans say he's lazy away from the puck and others say he is a complete defensive player. So in reality he's probably decent I suspect. Ryan is another guy to help out the forechecking in the bottom six. Tre has done all he can from a roster standpoint, Peter's simply needs to have them execute. We should be a much better team this year as long as Peter's isn't a complete flop.

Almost every every analyst states that Lindholm's defensive side of the game is superior to that of Neal. Thus the 185' comment. The only area where Lindolm may have deficiencies is in the offensive zone.

As much as Johnny may like Neal from the offensive side of the puck, Lindholm's talents maybe more needed on the top line. Neal is not a great 2-way player. Not horrible but there are many better than Neal. Considering the inherent weaknesses in Johnny's game in regards to turnovers Lindholm and his speed may be better matched. His recovery abilities may come in very handy.

This is not directed at Gnome but more broadly when talking about how players are analyzed. Too often fans have an idea stuck in their head and are blind to the stats and analysis done on players because the fan over-rates what they see. A good example is the Bennett discussion. Many fans are stuck to the thought of that #4 overall pick with unlimited potential and have not used the performance history to adjust their expectations. In all likelihood Sam does not have all that ability. Many people are still lagging behind where Sam's potential truly lies.

 

[The Gnome]

Almost every every analyst states that Lindholm's defensive side of the game is superior to that of Neal. Thus the 185' comment. The only area where Lindolm may have deficiencies is in the offensive zone.

As much as Johnny may like Neal from the offensive side of the puck, Lindholm's talents maybe more needed on the top line. Neal is not a great 2-way player. Not horrible but there are many better than Neal. Considering the inherent weaknesses in Johnny's game in regards to turnovers Lindholm and his speed may be better matched. His recovery abilities may come in very handy.

This is not directed at Gnome but more broadly when talking about how players are analyzed. Too often fans have an idea stuck in their head and are blind to the stats and analysis done on players because the fan over-rates what they see. A good example is the Bennett discussion. Many fans are stuck to the thought of that #4 overall pick with unlimited potential and have not used the performance history to adjust their expectations. In all likelihood Sam does not have all that ability. Many people are still lagging behind where Sam's potential truly lies.

I'm mostly done predicting where people will fall into the forward lineup, if it started today I'd still go:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett
Frolik-Backlund-Ryan
Mangiapane-Janko-Czarnik

I believe Lindholm is best suited at C, and that depth down the middle is not something that should be overlooked. I would also like to find a way for Bennett to get a top 6 shot, see what he can bring with Tkachuk on his opposite wing.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'm mostly done predicting where people will fall into the forward lineup, if it started today I'd still go:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Bennett
Frolik-Backlund-Ryan
Mangiapane-Janko-Czarnik

I believe Lindholm is best suited at C, and that depth down the middle is not something that should be overlooked. I would also like to find a way for Bennett to get a top 6 shot, see what he can bring with Tkachuk on his opposite wing.

Yeah man, this is what I want.

 

[hooknshoot]

I want Tkachuk and Neal on a line together. Think that such a line might have a decent forecheck?

 

[Lunatik]

I want Tkachuk and Neal on a line together. Think that such a line might have a decent forecheck?

According to Peters, they will start on a line together, with Backlund. Who, while not physical, is probably our best forechecker.

 

[Rubi]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Neal and Lindholm regularly move up and down between the 1st and 2nd lines depending on who the opponent is.
For example I can see Neal playing with Gaudreau and Monahan when the Flames play teams like the Ducks where its advantageous to have a big bodied forward who's a little nasty, on the first line. I can also see having someone like Lindholm on the first line when playing the speedy McDavid and his fellow Oilers.

 

[Lunatik]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Neal and Lindholm regularly move up and down between the 1st and 2nd lines depending on who the opponent is.
For example I can see Neal playing with Gaudreau and Monahan when the Flames play teams like the Ducks where its advantageous to have a big bodied forward who's a little nasty, on the first line. I can also see having someone like Lindholm on the first line when playing the speedy McDavid and his fellow Oilers.

Lindholm might not be chippy like Neal, but he can hold his own against bigger bodies. Also, I think a big reason Peters wants Lindholm on the top line is faceoffs. He is a believer that draws are important and the Flames haven't been over 50% as a team since the 2008-09 season. Lindholm being on the top line allows both he and Monahan to take draws on their strong side. The same can be said for Bennett/Jankowski and Ryan/Czarnik (depending who plays with who)