The Athletic: Detroit's Prospects Ranked 18th. Woof.

[MBH]

As one of the most "anti-Zadina" people around, I've always thought Tatar would be a decent comparable for him (Detroit Red Wings Tatar, 40-50 points per year. Rather than the Tatar that just put up close to a point per game this season). So I don't know how you look at a consistently falling prospect ranking to a 2nd line winger and feel vindicated about a top-6 pick.

I think Zadina's puck handling and passing should be better than Tatar.
I think Tatar has a better motor (not speed, but work ethic).
I also think Zadina's shot is ridiculously overrated.
I love that he loves to shoot, though. Even a guy with a less than great shot is going to score goals when they like to shoot as much as Zadina does.

 

[SirloinUB]

Veleno has the skating, puck transport, zone entry and passing distribution to be a 2-3C.
Rasmussen doesn't.

The thing is there is more than one way to skin a cat. For example, a 2nd line of Raymond - Rasmussen- Zadina would be really difficult for other teams to handle. It wouldn’t be the fastest but you have really high end skill, puck possession and playmaking abilities with Raymond and Zadina, and Ras can be a workhorse to win possession in the neutral and Dzone and wreck havoc in front of the oppositions net for the other two.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

These are organizational rankings of players 22 and younger, not prospects, which is why Hronek is in there

This is the big thing. The org has got some prospects, but a lot of them need more time, and many of them are a little bit of wildcards. Other teams just flat out have young NHLers. It's not that unreasonable to have the Wings at 18, considering they have not graduated many young NHLers lately at all.

So, again, Zadina's stock did not fall. This is a completely different kind of ranking than the last one. This ranking includes NHLers. By comparison to some of the guys other teams have graduated to the NHL, Zadina is good, but not great.

 

[MBH]

Albert Johansson

Skating: 55

I mean are you really watching some of these guys Pronman???

Rasmussen
Skating: 40

Huh???

I mean it obviously hurts your evaluation if you don't even understand some of these guys skill sets. I get it might have changed ranking them as pros, but if this is the same as his standard work on prospects for years, either of those tool grades are laughably hilarious. Like just really poor.

Rasmussen has one of the worst first, second and third steps I've seen in an NHL skater whose job wasn't to fight people.
I don't mind 40 skating.
Johansson should be higher.
I like that he saw the potential in Berglund.

 

[MBH]

The thing is there is more than one way to skin a cat. For example, a 2nd line of Raymond - Rasmussen- Zadina would be really difficult for other teams to handle. It wouldn’t be the fastest but you have really high end skill, puck possession and playmaking abilities with Raymond and Zadina, and Ras can be a workhorse to win possession in the neutral and Dzone and wreck havoc in front of the oppositions net for the other two.

I don't know man. If you have to have specially-constructed lines? Just put the big man on the wall, where he belongs.]

 

[ricky0034]

18th seems really low if he still considers Zadina and Hronek prospects.

Our prospect pool overall isn't as amazing as one would maybe hope (with several surefire stars in the pipeline). But I do think there's a lot to be excited about and a good mix.

We've been unfortunate with guys like Svechnikov and Berggren really struggling with injuries. Larsson and Cholo really regressed too. All these kids still have the chance to be NHLers though.

Let's hope 2020 is a great draft for us.

this list isn't so much a prospect list as a list of everyone 22 and younger

so it also includes players like Laine and McAvoy for example


which is also why it doesn't make sense to compare it to last years like the op does where that clearly wasn't the case and there was an NHL games cutoff as well

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Rasmussen has one of the worst first, second and third steps I've seen in an NHL skater whose job wasn't to fight people.
I don't mind 40 skating.
Johansson should be higher.
I like that he saw the potential in Berglund.

I disagree with this pretty massively, tested top 3 at the prospect game in some of the skating areas in his draft year if I remember right. Rasmussen is not a bad skater if he was 6'2" much less how big he is.

I do think Veleno is a better skater, but not by a ton and preferred Rasmussen last year of the two in Grand Rapids at center. Ras looked really good when he played last year.

I expect pretty big things out of Ras next year. The break should have helped his wrist and back. Hopefully he is now back in the gym going full tilt.

He can be a massive weapon. Bigger guys take longer to develop.

 

[SirloinUB]

I don't know man. If you have to have specially-constructed lines? Just put the big man on the wall, where he belongs.]

Aren’t all lines specially-constructed to bring complimentary skill sets together?

 

[simonedvinsson]

18th seems really low if he still considers Zadina and Hronek prospects.

Our prospect pool overall isn't as amazing as one would maybe hope (with several surefire stars in the pipeline). But I do think there's a lot to be excited about and a good mix.

We've been unfortunate with guys like Svechnikov and Berggren really struggling with injuries. Larsson and Cholo really regressed too. All these kids still have the chance to be NHLers though.

Let's hope 2020 is a great draft for us.

graduation is based primarily on age, so there will be some legitimate already successful players in that upper echelon of teams (heiskanen, hughes, makar, petersson, et al), which skews his rankings significantly and ultimately renders his rankings pretty pointless in my mind.

 

[Winger98]

Veleno has the skating, puck transport, zone entry and passing distribution to be a 2-3C.
Rasmussen doesn't.

Which was higher on the GR depth chart?

edit:

sorry, busy day, but I want to add onto this so it's a bit less snarky sounding. All of 8 months separates Veleno and Rasmussen. You've been very clear about how liking Ras at center, you don't think he works there.

But between Veleno and Rasmussen, it's Ras who gets the bigger role. He just flat got used more extensively and put up similar numbers despite playing ~20 fewer games. At some point, despite not liking him as a center, if he's being used as a center and he's putting up better numbers, maybe he's the better center prospect.

 

[newfy]

Veleno has the skating, puck transport, zone entry and passing distribution to be a 2-3C.
Rasmussen doesn't.

Says the guy who didnt watch them at all in Grand Rapids this season. Youre basing your opinion on watching one as a 19 year old in the NHL and the not seeing him play since. Rasmussen is a solid skater and good for his size. In the AHL hes completely fine with puck transport and especially zone entries. He usses his frame to protect the puck in ways that Veleno just cant.

For Veleno being so much better in all those facets, why was he so far buried behind Rasmussen on the depth chart and the results were so different between the 2?

 

[Bench]

Bigger guys take longer to develop.

True fact.

That's a 2 liter, by the way.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Who cares about pronman

 

[Bench]

I thought 18 was actually pretty damn generous. I figured for sure we'd be in the bottom 10. There's not a single, surefire blue chip prospect in the system. I guess if you're including Hronek, that's worth a few spots.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Seems reasonable. We have some nice supporting pieces but are really lacking the highly-skilled prospects you want to make up a team's core.

 

[MBH]

Aren’t all lines specially-constructed to bring complimentary skill sets together?

But if a player needs a Raymond (playmaking winger) to be a center, is he really a center?

 

[simonedvinsson]

delete

 

[ArmChairGM89]

But if a player needs a Raymond (playmaking winger) to be a center, is he really a center?

You don’t need to be a playmaker to be a center. Some of the best centers in the world aren’t playmakers.

 

[RedMenace]

18th, eh?

Well *I* think The Athletic's prospects are ranked 0th, so there!

You can find my write-up of their prospects on my website: www.shattenkirkskrakenshirt.net

 

[SirloinUB]

But if a player needs a Raymond (playmaking winger) to be a center, is he really a center?

Lol, absolutely not. The point is there are lots of ways to build an effective line. He doesn’t “need” Raymond. But it’s an attainable option that could be highly effective.

Rasmussen can be a responsible centre that wins faceoffs and puck battles, has good net front skills, makes quick passes and a combination of range, size and strength that is hard to beat (regardless of who his line mates are).

The right chemistry makes all players better. Raymond is someone available that could be an excellent compliment to Rasmussen.

I mean I’d be thrilled if Byfield somehow slid to 4 or an elite center was available on the UFA market but until that happens you just gotta play the hand you’re dealt.

In reality we need good players all around our lineup and certain skill sets could compliment each other. Raymond is considered by many as one of the guys with a higher ceiling in this draft and will be available for the Wings to consider. He Rasmussen and Zadina could be a good second threat behind the MLB line.

 

[Henkka]

You don’t need to be a playmaker to be a center. Some of the best centers in the world aren’t playmakers.

Yeah, like Chicago did win their Cups with guys like Handzus and Anisimov as their Top6 center (when Kane is playmaking from wing).

Toews wasn't anyhow superior playmaker either.

People who think that contender centers have to be playmakers, are living very far in the past.

 

[drw02]

Pronman is really bad at this for someone who supposedly spends all their time watching prospects. The guy had Casey Mittelstadt as his #1 prospect in all of hockey. I still remember arguing with him years ago over Larkin's ranking, where he believed he was nothing more than a bottom 6 C and had guys like Jacob De La Rose ranked ahead of him. His critiques are basically worthless, he's a total sucker for hype and gaudy stats without context. Red Wings system is better than he suggests, though that's not to say there isn't room for improvement

 

[Bench]

His critiques are basically worthless, he's a total sucker for hype and gaudy stats without context.

Sounds like he'd fit in perfectly here.

 

[Frk It]

Sounds like he'd fit in perfectly here.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Pronman is really bad at this for someone who supposedly spends all their time watching prospects. The guy had Casey Mittelstadt as his #1 prospect in all of hockey. I still remember arguing with him years ago over Larkin's ranking, where he believed he was nothing more than a bottom 6 C and had guys like Jacob De La Rose ranked ahead of him. His critiques are basically worthless, he's a total sucker for hype and gaudy stats without context. Red Wings system is better than he suggests, though that's not to say there isn't room for improvement

yeah don’t sweat the Pronman rankings. He had the Flames at 29th for multiple years and we had Rasmus Andersson, Juuso Valimaki, Andrew Mangiapane, Dillon Dube, Adam Fox, Oliver Kylington (And a couple other guys who could be NHLers) and he said our only prospect with by far the most upside was Oliver Kylington, basically the only one that hasn’t locked down a full time job.

He also had Gaudreau at 42 after he put up 2 PPG at Boston College. I remember telling him he had probably never seen him play and we actually had a HF sparing match. I am sure someone could dig it up. And he proceeded to EDIT his rankings as I looked it up years later and he nudged him up to like 11th or something. No journalistic integrity. But if someone is going to pay you 40 Gs to be a glorified HFposter I guess you run with it.

part of me thinks he actually watches these prospects he’s just that bad at evaluating prospects.