The Athletic - 2018/19 NHL Farm system rankings

[Legend123]

Damn what are you guys even arguing about? That's what I call arguing just for the sake of it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Damn what are you guys even arguing about? That's what I call arguing just for the sake of it.

Just arguing against the notion that Kotkaniemi is a below average 3OA. My guess is he wouldve been much better if Ottawa or Detroit had snagged him up.

 

[Legend123]

Just arguing against the notion that Kotkaniemi is a below average 3OA. My guess is he wouldve been much better if Ottawa or Detroit had snagged him up.

Yeah there's a lot of habs hate even tho we are one of the worst teams.
Kotka at 3 was one of the best picks we've done in a long time.
Then the Ylonen, Olofsson picks were majistical. It's great to see us finally rewarded by some of the mainstream media! Top 10 baby! f*** the haters. Were coming in hot for that #1 spot next year!!!

 

[LordNeverLose]

Kotkaniemi is a weaker 3rd overall? What do you expect him to be? A 4th liner?

2009: Duchene, in hindsight he was a good 3rd overall, but his play in the CHL wasnt thay good. Weaker.
2010: Gudbranson, a depth D 20 points in 43 games in the CHL, weaker.
2011: Huberdeau, top 6 winger, good CHL numbers on a stacked team, about even but a winger.
2012: Galchenyuk, injured season, bad development, but overall Id say hes a stronger pick.
2013: Drouin, stronger pick if you ignore the bad attitude signs.
2014: Draisaitl, tough one. Id like to aay Kotkaniemi tracks similarly to Drai when looking at fin in the WHL comparables but Im fine with saying Draisaitl is better.
2015: Strome, stronger statistically but never really developped and had serious deawbacks (skating, playing on a stacked team)
2016: PLD, weaker.
2017: Heiskanen, weaker Liiga season, similar U18

Id rank them this way
Drouin
Galchenyuk
Draisaitl
Strome
Kotkaniemi
Heiskanen
Huberdeau
PLD
Duchene
Gudbranson

You're nuts if you think Duchene was looked at as a weaker 3rd OA. There was a little talk leading up to the draft that the Islanders might take him over Tavares. Everyone thought it'd be a bad idea, but the fact that there were even rumors that he would go ahead of a prospect as hyped as Tavares just shows he was very highly thought of for a 3rd OA.

 

[Mrb1p]

You're nuts if you think Duchene was looked at as a weaker 3rd OA. There was a little talk leading up to the draft that the Islanders might take him over Tavares. Everyone thought it'd be a bad idea, but the fact that there were even rumors that he would go ahead of a prospect as hyped as Tavares just shows he was very highly thought of for a 3rd OA.

Yeah I dont remember any serious talk at all about this. About similar as Svechnikov falling to 2 and Zadina going to Carolina.

 

[93LEAFS]

Kotkaniemi is a weaker 3rd overall? What do you expect him to be? A 4th liner?

2009: Duchene, in hindsight he was a good 3rd overall, but his play in the CHL wasnt thay good. Weaker.
2010: Gudbranson, a depth D 20 points in 43 games in the CHL, weaker.
2011: Huberdeau, top 6 winger, good CHL numbers on a stacked team, about even but a winger.
2012: Galchenyuk, injured season, bad development, but overall Id say hes a stronger pick.
2013: Drouin, stronger pick if you ignore the bad attitude signs.
2014: Draisaitl, tough one. Id like to aay Kotkaniemi tracks similarly to Drai when looking at fin in the WHL comparables but Im fine with saying Draisaitl is better.
2015: Strome, stronger statistically but never really developped and had serious deawbacks (skating, playing on a stacked team)
2016: PLD, weaker.
2017: Heiskanen, weaker Liiga season, similar U18

Id rank them this way
Drouin
Galchenyuk
Draisaitl
Strome
Kotkaniemi
Heiskanen
Huberdeau
PLD
Duchene
Gudbranson

PLD was a better prospect than Kotkaniemi at the time of his draft. Kotkaniemi was around the 7th or 8th best prospect in this draft, and PLD was still a better prospect than Zadina who most people had as the 3rd best. Duchene was clearly viewed as better. Strome was viewed as a better prospect than Draisaitl, it just never materialized (remember, most people though Bennett was better than Drai).

A bunch of this list looks like revisionist history.

 

[93LEAFS]

You're nuts if you think Duchene was looked at as a weaker 3rd OA. There was a little talk leading up to the draft that the Islanders might take him over Tavares. Everyone thought it'd be a bad idea, but the fact that there were even rumors that he would go ahead of a prospect as hyped as Tavares just shows he was very highly thought of for a 3rd OA.

Yea, Tavares was the favorite, with Hedman followed by Duchene, but people were seriously arguing at the time that Duchene had more upside due to how Tavares sort of plateaued his last year in junior and Duchene's skating. There's a reason they show all 3 possible picks in small boxes at the 26-second mark.

 

[Mrb1p]

PLD was a better prospect than Kotkaniemi at the time of his draft. Kotkaniemi was around the 7th or 8th best prospect in this draft, and PLD was still a better prospect than Zadina who most people had as the 3rd best. Duchene was clearly viewed as better. Strome was viewed as a better prospect than Draisaitl, it just never materialized (remember, most people though Bennett was better than Drai).

A bunch of this list looks like revisionist history.

And a bunch of this looks like just scratching off Kotkaniemi as a worse prospect because hes a fan of a team that you dont like.

 

[93LEAFS]

And a bunch of this looks like just scratching off Kotkaniemi as a worse prospect because hes a fan of a team that you dont like.

No, that is just your victim complex. I don't care who drafted him, he wasn't the best option at 3, and he isn't better than the people you listed. I don't like the Sabres, Red Wings or Senators, and I wouldn't call their picks reaches. I don't really like Edmonton or Van either, and I'm not saying anything about Hughes or Bouchard. You are clearly pumping up the guy your team took. He isn't one of the best 3rd overall picks in recent memory and is clearly closer to the bottom of that grouping than the top, and writing revisionist history on how guys previously drafted 3rd overall are ranked.

 

[Mrb1p]

No, that is just your victim complex. I don't care who drafted him, he wasn't the best option at 3, and he isn't better than the people you listed. I don't like the Sabres, Red Wings or Senators, and I wouldn't call their picks reaches. I don't really like Edmonton or Van either, and I'm not saying anything about Hughes or Bouchard. You are clearly pumping up the guy your team took. He isn't one of the best 3rd overall picks in recent memory and is clearly closer to the bottom of that grouping than the top, and writing revisionist history on how guys previously drafted 3rd overall are ranked.

Its quite evident that theres some kind of bias. The guy drafted 3rd overall is the 7th best player in the draft? Alrighty.

Hes just not that good, right? How could the Habs have anything great? How can a guy that was ranked late first rise up to third OA? Those Heiskanen, Pettersson picks were really, really bad, right?

 

[sharks9]

Yeah, this ranking doesn't really take into account the positional diversity of a team's prospect pool. The Habs lack especially defensemen whose main value comes in combination of transition and offensive play. At some point - probably after they trade Petry - they'll realize this is as big of a shortcoming as their centers.

Most Habs fans expect them to go heavier on drafting defense in next year’s draft.

Last year we got a few good ones like Brook and Fleury, but they’re likely bottom two pairing guys so if we miss out on Hughes, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a highly ranked defenseman this year

 

[Hoganer13]

No, that is just your victim complex. I don't care who drafted him, he wasn't the best option at 3, and he isn't better than the people you listed. I don't like the Sabres, Red Wings or Senators, and I wouldn't call their picks reaches. I don't really like Edmonton or Van either, and I'm not saying anything about Hughes or Bouchard. You are clearly pumping up the guy your team took. He isn't one of the best 3rd overall picks in recent memory and is clearly closer to the bottom of that grouping than the top, and writing revisionist history on how guys previously drafted 3rd overall are ranked.

I 100% agree with this. I don't understand why you would take such offence to someone else thinking that Kotkaniemi wasn't the third best prospect in the draft. If he ends up being one of the top players in the draft, that would be awesome for the Habs. But what I don't understand is trying to argue with everyone and trying to disprove why other players picked at #3 aren't valued at the same level as their player picked at #3. Reality is it will take a couple years to determine what he truly is. He has the potential, but who knows if it will come to fruition. Until then, take it easy on the arguing Mrb1p.. no one is saying JK isn't a good player because he is a hab, we are saying there were better options available on the board on draft day that the Canadians disregarded.

 

[93LEAFS]

Its quite evident that theres some kind of bias. The guy drafted 3rd overall is the 7th best player in the draft? Alrighty.

Hes just not that good, right? How could the Habs have anything great? How can a guy that was ranked late first rise up to third OA? Those Heiskanen, Pettersson picks were really, really bad, right?

So, you are telling me draft slot completely dictates what a players value is? I viewed him below Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Tkachuk and Dobson prior to the draft. That puts him at highest 6th, and I think there were strong arguments for others ahead of him.

He wasn't ranked 3rd by a single source. He was ranked below 7th multiple places. But, yes, I'm the biased one, not you......

 

[Mrb1p]

I 100% agree with this. I don't understand why you would take such offence to someone else thinking that Kotkaniemi wasn't the third best prospect in the draft. If he ends up being one of the top players in the draft, that would be awesome for the Habs. But what I don't understand is trying to argue with everyone and trying to disprove why other players picked at #3 aren't valued at the same level as their player picked at #3. Reality is it will take a couple years to determine what he truly is. He has the potential, but who knows if it will come to fruition. Until then, take it easy on the arguing Mrb1p.. no one is saying JK isn't a good player because he is a hab, we are saying there were better options available on the board on draft day that the Canadians disregarded.

Thats YOUR belief though. Not mine, not many Habs fans beliefs, not the Habs scouting staff beliefs, not the Dallas scouting staff belief, not the belief of Arizonas scouting staff, not the belief of the Sharks scouting staff, not the belief of the ten scouts Bob Mack polled, not the belief of Alain Chainey, not the belief of most amateur scouts.

I mean, at what point do we stop with the BS that Kotkaniemi wasnt a good pick at three?

 

[93LEAFS]

Thats YOUR belief though. Not mine, not many Habs fans beliefs, not the Habs scouting staff beliefs, not the Dallas scouting staff belief, not the belief of Arizonas scouting staff, not the belief of the Sharks scouting staff, not the belief of the ten scouts Bob Mack polled, not the belief of Alain Chainey, not the belief of most amateur scouts.

I mean, at what point do we stop with the BS that Kotkaniemi wasnt a good pick at three?

You do realize these are two of the worst drafting teams in the 2010's right? And, if you want to continually point to the fact he was 5 on Bob's poll, maybe you should also acknowledge that poll had two guys as better than him, who you passed on to take Kotkaniemi.

 

[Hoganer13]

Thats YOUR belief though. Not mine, not many Habs fans beliefs, not the Habs scouting staff beliefs, not the Dallas scouting staff belief, not the belief of Arizonas scouting staff, not the belief of the Sharks scouting staff, not the belief of the ten scouts Bob Mack polled, not the belief of Alain Chainey, not the belief of most amateur scouts.

I mean, at what point do we stop with the BS that Kotkaniemi wasnt a good pick at three?

Why are you getting so rattled at everyones opinion, when you are using the opinions of others to back up your opinion? The reality is we all don't know. It may end up being a great pick, or it may end up not. Seemed like Zadina/Brady Tkachuk may have been a "safer" bet, but the habs might end up knocking this one out of the park. I just know if my team was picking at 3, I would of wanted one of them compared to JK.

 

[Mrb1p]

Why are you getting so rattled at everyones opinion, when you are using the opinions of others to back up your opinion? The reality is we all don't know. It may end up being a great pick, or it may end up not. Seemed like Zadina/Brady Tkachuk may have been a "safer" bet, but the habs might end up knocking this one out of the park. I just know if my team was picking at 3, I would of wanted one of them compared to JK.

And I know this is who I wanted.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Most Habs fans expect them to go heavier on drafting defense in next year’s draft.

Last year we got a few good ones like Brook and Fleury, but they’re likely bottom two pairing guys so if we miss out on Hughes, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a highly ranked defenseman this year

I'll believe it when I see it given Bergevin's history with defensemen who can actually skate and play offense.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'll believe it when I see it given Bergevin's history with defensemen who can actually skate and play offense.

Mb doesnt direct the draft.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Mb doesnt direct the draft.

I can't believe the immense emphasis on playmaking centers drafted this year wasn't at the insistence of the rest of management rather than a sheer coincidence of the scouting staff. I'm not holding my breath that they'd ask for a similar strategy for skating defensemen. Not saying Bergevin does anything more specific than that.

 

[Tripod]

2018 NHL Draft Rankings

17 lists......none have Kotk top 3. Only 2 have him top 5. 8 have him top 10.

So 8 have him 4-10
And 9 have him 11+

Montreal took who they thought would be the best C.

 

[Mrb1p]

2018 NHL Draft Rankings

17 lists......none have Kotk top 3. Only 2 have him top 5. 8 have him top 10.

So 8 have him 4-10
And 9 have him 11+

Montreal took who they thought would be the best C.

Good thing the draft isnt directed by media lists huh

 

[Tripod]

Good thing the draft isnt directed by media lists huh

Well there is a former GM who doesn't have him top 3 either.

If Kotk was winger, he doesn't go #3. Interesting how the 2 risers on draft day near the top were both centers.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well there is a former GM who doesn't have him top 3 either.

If Kotk was winger, he doesn't go #3. Interesting how the 2 risers on draft day near the top were both centers.

Good thing hes not a winger then!

 

[Isaac Nootin]

And, if you want to continually point to the fact he was 5 on Bob's poll, maybe you should also acknowledge that poll had two guys as better than him, who you passed on to take Kotkaniemi.

The only list I see from Bob where he polled scouts has Kotka at #10. Is there another list I'm missing?

https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345