The almost 3/4 of the season Hart talk.

[yababy]

Game winning goals this year

draisaitl 9 (league leader)
Mackinnon 4

that’s 10 game winning goals from Draisaitl now

 

[Frank the Tank]

Oilers 2-1 with McDavid out and Draisaitl with 8 points to lead the league by 10. He's doing his part to win over the Hart voters.

 

[Mickmagoo]

At this point it's MacKinnon, followed by Pastrnak and Panarin.

What about McDavid or Draisaitl? The fact that people would argue for both of them kind at the same time of defeats the point of being the MVP. Before McDavid went down he was the favourite according to HF (along with every other trophy in existence apparently). After McDavid goes down all of a sudden Draisaitl is the guy? Give me a break. Sure, they can score a lot but when you put up 53/44 even strength points and are still a minus by a decent chunk it's not a great look. It doesn't matter if you score 2 if you're on the ice for 2-3 against.

Draisatial AINEC

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

If the Oilers make the playoffs Draisaitl deserves the Hart. We all know there's a strong EC bias and a bunch of those second and third place votes will go to Auston Matthews though

 

[El Travo]

Right, MacKinnon and Pasta are the only good players on their team. There is nobody on either team say, in the lead for the Calder

Yes, the Avalanche have good players yet they were kept afloat by MacKinnon while half the team was hurt for a good chunk of the season (including the likes of Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Kadri). The fact that they aren't having to play catch-up is solely because MacKinnon stepped up and dragged the team to wins. He was getting heavily double shifted during that time just so the other lines were a threat.

What I'm saying is that people were arguing for McDavid right up until he got hurt and they were claiming it wasn't close. Then everyone went right for his teammate and started claiming that he should win and of course it wasn't close. It doesn't make sense when it comes to picking a guy who is supposed to be a clear-cut MVP. Oilers fans lost their guy so they've decided that Draisaitl was the MVP all along.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

The Hart trophy is so flawed. Literally every voter of the award has ignored the definition of the trophy for so long that it's become "best player" when the NHL already has a best player award. It's so silly. Making the playoffs should have no bearing on the outcome of the vote.

Phoebe Bridgers is a flipping goddess.

 

[snipes]

Leon Draisaitl

 

[Eltuna]

Avs fan that thinks it’s Drai unless Mackinnon heats up for the last 20 games. I did not like the points above line mate argument when Hall beat Mackinnon and I still don’t like it now. Mackinnon doesn’t get to play with a guy like McDavid but the Avs are still a lot better than the oilers, the gap between Mackinnon and the next best on the Avs is a little misleading due to the time missed and the fact that a lot of Avs offence comes from the blue line which is more spread out.

The Oilers are so top heavy that teams know if they shut down the Drai line it’s basically game over, I actually think Drai has had a harder time on the Oilers than Mackinnon does on the deeper Avs squad and he’s still out scoring Mackinnon.

 

[Regal]

Yes, the Avalanche have good players yet they were kept afloat by MacKinnon while half the team was hurt for a good chunk of the season (including the likes of Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Kadri). The fact that they aren't having to play catch-up is solely because MacKinnon stepped up and dragged the team to wins. He was getting heavily double shifted during that time just so the other lines were a threat.

What I'm saying is that people were arguing for McDavid right up until he got hurt and they were claiming it wasn't close. Then everyone went right for his teammate and started claiming that he should win and of course it wasn't close. It doesn't make sense when it comes to picking a guy who is supposed to be a clear-cut MVP. Oilers fans lost their guy so they've decided that Draisaitl was the MVP all along.

I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't close and quite a few people felt Draisaitl was more important throughout the year. And he's currently 11 points up on McDavid. I get it isn't as clear cut who is the team MVP between the two of them like it is for someone like MacKinnon, but if someone believes it's been Draisaitl, McDavid being close shouldn't matter. All that should matter is how good Draisaitl has been and how good he's been relative to his team as a whole, including McDavid. If someone thinks Draisaitl has been as good or better than MacKinnon, and that the rest of the Oilers as a collective have been worse than everyone on Colorado as a collective, then it makes sense that Draisaitl would be the MVP

 

[McRpro]

Yes, the Avalanche have good players yet they were kept afloat by MacKinnon while half the team was hurt for a good chunk of the season (including the likes of Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Kadri). The fact that they aren't having to play catch-up is solely because MacKinnon stepped up and dragged the team to wins. He was getting heavily double shifted during that time just so the other lines were a threat.

What I'm saying is that people were arguing for McDavid right up until he got hurt and they were claiming it wasn't close. Then everyone went right for his teammate and started claiming that he should win and of course it wasn't close. It doesn't make sense when it comes to picking a guy who is supposed to be a clear-cut MVP. Oilers fans lost their guy so they've decided that Draisaitl was the MVP all along.

Oilers fans have been saying Leon has been their MVP all year and been better than McDavid. Not sure where you got your info from but it sure wasn't from the people who watch the Oilers the most.

 

[3IR]

I love how this year it's impossible for it to be Drai or Mcdavid because "they have eachother".

Meanwhile kucherov wins it with two more 90+ point players playing on a team that scored 325 goals on the season.

This oilers team is on pace for 262 goals with way less balanced scoring than that lightning squad. Not only did kucherov have two superstars to play with, but he also had a way deeper team. The goalposts on this award in particular change every half a season, it's insane. I don't know if it's always been like this, as I've only been paying attention to the hart race since we got Drai and Mcdavid, but the mental gymnastics done by the media and fans every year to justify someone getting it over the obvious choice is mind boggling.

"Sure Mcdavid was voted best player by his peers... but he didn't make the playoffs so it doesn't count."
"Sure Mcdavid didn't have the supporting cast that Kucherov did despite kucherovs team scoring 100 more goals than Mcdavids, but Kucherov outscored him by 12 points"
"Sure Mcdavid and Draisaitl are the two best offensive players in the league this year, but Mack doesn't have the supporting cast that they have despite having almost 20 goals more as a team, a better goal differential and 4 more points in the standings in 2 less games"

These awards that leave anything up for interpretation are the biggest crock ever, especially when they're voted on by people who don't watch half the games in the league outside the team they cover.

 

[oilynutz]

Drai quickest to 90 in 30 years. Mark Messier the last person to do it. He would be my vote

 

[Regal]

Drai quickest to 90 in 30 years. Mark Messier the last person to do it. He would be my vote

That certainly would not have been my guess. Is that based on date?

 

[snipes]

Drai quickest to 90 in 30 years. Mark Messier the last person to do it. He would be my vote

10 game winning goals as well, next highest in the league at 5 amongst Hart candidates

 

[McFlash97]

10 game winning goals in 58 games.

What's the record ?

 

[snipes]

10 game winning goals in 58 games.

What's the record ?

16 is the single season record.

Esposito did it twice and Goulet did it once.

 

[Frank the Tank]

The point disparity argument screwed Mackinnon out of one Hart. That same argument should give it to him this time.

Yeah, Oilers aren't going to have a lot of sympathy for fans lamenting about arbitrary rules defining who should be a Hart winner.

 

[Spoilers]

That certainly would not have been my guess. Is that based on date?

I think he meant fastest Oiler.

 

[oilynutz]

I think he meant fastest Oiler.

Ya sorry. A couple too many wobblies. Definitely meant to add fastest Oilers since Messier.

 

[the4thlinegrinder]

Honestly, the criteria for the Hart has become so convoluted and inconsistent that the trophy has lost its importance to me. Rather than having to get into these mental gymnastics about how valuable player X is to his team vs player Y to his team (only to see the goal posts moved the next year), I prefer the Lindsay. Its given to the best player. Simple. There might be disagreements as to who that player is, but at least everyone knows what is being voted on. As an Oiler fan I'd like to see Drai win so he can have some individual hardware, but it doesn't really matter that much to me anymore.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

MacK or Drai, it’s a two horse race.

 

[b in vancouver]

10 game winning goals as well, next highest in the league at 5 amongst Hart candidates

Pastrnak has 7 gwg.

 

[Regal]

It just doesn’t sit right with me that if Luongo played like 1-2 more games for the Panthers in 2017-18, they would have overtaken the Devils for the last WC spot, and Hall would have gone from winning the Hart trophy to likely not even finishing top-3 in voting. The implication that regular season accomplishments are worthless if you miss the playoffs bothers me too. It’s not Jack Eichel’s fault the rest of his team sucks, and a season like he’s having should be more appreciated. The NHL just isn’t a league where a player can do it themselves, skaters only play at max 1/3 of the available ice-time in a full season, and goalies can’t score goals.

Honestly they should just make a second Hart trophy for MVPs that miss the playoffs. Name it after some other historic player. IMO players should be ranked in the order of wins contributed to their teams, maybe then compare that to the combined wins contributed by their teammates. Honestly if it just goes to the Art Ross winner every year, so what? Why shouldn't it? Forwards are the most valuable players, and there's nothing more valuable than scoring (except of course preventing scoring but goalies have to have miraculous seasons to win a Hart trophy).

Fair enough. I do think the idea of value with squeaking into the playoffs like Hall's season can be overblown for sure. Bobrovsky in 2013 would be a similar case the other way where Columbus went on that run to end the year and just missed, so Bob went from what would have been a tight race with Sid and Ovi to a distant 5th. I think generally we should be giving it to the best player, but things like relative value to team and how well the team does make for good extra considerations when it's not obvious who the best player is.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

10 game winning goals as well, next highest in the league at 5 amongst Hart candidates

GWG by itself is a meaningless stat; that goal could be #2 in the first period of a 7-1 blowout, or it could be the one that breaks a tie with 32 seconds left in regulation and they count the same. It's like when "first goals" were touted as a thing (and some places still track them); it says nothing about whether that goal was really meaningful to the outcome of a game.

Someone figure out how many GWG guys have that are scored in the 3rd period/OT or beyond 10 minutes left in regulation, then we can talk about that measure of GWG as being some kind of clutch-indicating stat.

 

[nabob]

The narratives of reasons being written against Drai in this thread is seriously some of the best fiction I have ever read.