The All-Purpose Sprong Thread

[Gurglesons]

Well Rust's not exactly playing like someone who deserves to be on a scoring line, so ...

Not to mention if your 4th line is going to be more of a checking line, he's a better fit there than Sprong.

So, you have Rust on our 4th line. Simon is on our first. Who of Hornqvist or Kessel are you scratching?

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not Rust there, it's Simon. It's which one of Simon, Hornqvist or Kessel is going to be playing on the 4th line or scratched for Sprong, which is none of them.

Oh I know. That is why I’m saying one of those three would need to be scratched.

 

[KIRK]

Sprong stepping in for a player during line rushes that he's not going to replace isn't exactly evidence that they think he is a candidate to play in that spot. You'd have a stronger argument that Sprong running on LW shows that they may view him as capable of playing LW, because he's sure as hell not taking Pearson's spot.

And you know there's even less of a chance of taking ZAR's spot.

And no ******* way he replaces Sheahan now that Sheahan hit his annual goals quota.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Realistically, the best case scenario for Sprong is the Penguins running with Sheahan as the 3C with Kessel and Rust moving to LW on the 4th line, giving the Penguins something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
Pearson-Malkin-Hornqvist
ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel
Rust-Brassard-Sprong

This is basically the only way that you can get Sprong in the lineup with Brassard, it's if you demote Brassard to the 4th line and are confident with only having 3 regular PKers playing. I feel like if Brassard would have shown to be a better PKer/better defensive center, Sprong would be more likely to be in the lineup. But because he didn't, you basically have to play Grant.

 

[KIRK]

I think he has a very strong opinion of him, and he may be wrong. I don't think he wants him to fail. At least I don't think he's intentionally hurting his chances. Mostly because sully himself doesn't want to fail and needs people to be good. Even if sully hates him with all of his being, he still needs to win hockey games right now. If sully thought playing sprong more would help, he'd play him more.

You seem awfully certain about that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So, you have Rust on our 4th line. Simon is on our first. Who of Hornqvist or Kessel are you scratching?

I mean, I thought we were talking about usage all season. Simon hasn't always been playing RW this season.

The overall point is, comparing the Pens situation to the Jets and saying "see? Their prospect is stuck on the 4th line too" is disingenuous because a]one team is actually having success and b]one team's top nine is pretty much set while the other's is in flux trying to find the right combinations.

 

[KIRK]

I think @Mr Jiggyfly has the subject of Sully and Sprong pretty much nailed 100%.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's not Rust there, it's Simon. It's which one of Simon, Hornqvist or Kessel is going to be playing on the 4th line or scratched for Sprong, which is none of them.

Let's not pretend like Sprong would be an option for a top 9 RW spot anyway, because it became crystal clear when Hornqvist was injured that he wasn't.

Oh I know. That is why I’m saying one of those three would need to be scratched.

In Imaginationland, where Sprong actually has a chance as a top 9 RW, Sullivan could always play Horny on the 4th line and Rust on 3LW. Horny's not doing anything with Malkin at ES right now anyway and the only time Rust-Brass-Kess played together they were dynamite, but that would require ZAR on the 4th line too, which is verboten.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think @Mr Jiggyfly has the subject of Sully and Sprong pretty much nailed 100%.

Is what he's saying different from what most Sprong advocates are saying?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think @Mr Jiggyfly has the subject of Sully and Sprong pretty much nailed 100%.

I think he's right about how Sullivan views Sprong, but I think he's wrong about Sullivan refusing to give Sprong a chance because he's being stubborn. No, he's not giving Sprong a chance because he doesn't like his game and Sprong has actively hurt the team this year. I really don't get why people are acting as if Sullivan is unjust to not want Sprong in the lineup, considering how bad he has been when on the 4th line. I can't think of a coach that would watch a guy like Sprong perform like he did and think "maybe if I put him with skilled players, he'd do better".

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, I thought we were talking about usage all season. Simon hasn't always been playing RW this season.

The overall point is, comparing the Pens situation to the Jets and saying "see? Their prospect is stuck on the 4th line too" is disingenuous because a]one team is actually having success and b]one team's top nine is pretty much set while the other's is in flux trying to find the right combinations.

I mean the Jets were a wild card team floundering in the early part of the season until Laine decided to score like 20 goals in six games.

 

[Old Gregg]

Realistically, the best case scenario for Sprong is the Penguins running with Sheahan as the 3C with Kessel and Rust moving to LW on the 4th line, giving the Penguins something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
Pearson-Malkin-Hornqvist
ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel
Rust-Brassard-Sprong

This is basically the only way that you can get Sprong in the lineup with Brassard, it's if you demote Brassard to the 4th line and are confident with only having 3 regular PKers playing. I feel like if Brassard would have shown to be a better PKer/better defensive center, Sprong would be more likely to be in the lineup. But because he didn't, you basically have to play Grant.

Why not run these lines

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Pearson-Malkin-Sprong/Kessel
Simon-Brassard-Kessel/Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's not pretend like Sprong would be an option for a top 9 RW spot anyway, because it became crystal clear when Hornqvist was injured that he wasn't.



In Imaginationland, where Sprong actually has a chance as a top 9 RW, Sullivan could always play Horny on the 4th line and Rust on 3LW. Horny's not doing anything with Malkin at ES right now anyway and the only time Rust-Brass-Kess played together they were dynamite, but that would require ZAR on the 4th line too, which is verboten.

Horny should not be on the fourth line.

A struggling Rust should not be played on his off wing.

The fact we continue to have this conversation after 20 games of seeing Rust used in a LW role and fail is bizarre.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why not run these lines

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Pearson-Malkin-Sprong/Kessel
Simon-Brassard-Kessel/Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Rust

Because Pearson - Malkin - Kessel has been shown not to work and Simon - Brassard - Sprong sounds like a tire fire.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think he's right about how Sullivan views Sprong, but I think he's wrong about Sullivan refusing to give Sprong a chance because he's being stubborn. No, he's not giving Sprong a chance because he doesn't like his game and Sprong has actively hurt the team this year. I really don't get why people are acting as if Sullivan is unjust to not want Sprong in the lineup, considering how bad he has been when on the 4th line. I can't think of a coach that would watch a guy like Sprong perform like he did and think "maybe if I put him with skilled players, he'd do better".

Probably because he has a better P/60 pace than any bottom 6 player despite the worst deployment of any player on the team, while ZAR "earned" a promotion to the top 9 despite 0 points and lousy possession numbers in his first 4 games and has stayed there despite having the worst P/60 of any forward on the team. And some wonder why we have trouble with depth scoring. Yeah, it's a real head-scratcher.

All you need to see to understand why Sprong would likely do better with better players is his underlying numbers when playing with good players last year, his production in spite of his circumstances this year, and his performance in his extremely limited opportunities with skilled players this year.

Kind of a triple whammy. The argument against it is, uh, the fact that he isn't producing a lot more in his 8.5 minutes a night with scrubs, which nobody in the league does, I guess?

 

[KIRK]

I think he's right about how Sullivan views Sprong, but I think he's wrong about Sullivan refusing to give Sprong a chance because he's being stubborn. No, he's not giving Sprong a chance because he doesn't like his game and Sprong has actively hurt the team this year. I really don't get why people are acting as if Sullivan is unjust to not want Sprong in the lineup, considering how bad he has been when on the 4th line. I can't think of a coach that would watch a guy like Sprong perform like he did and think "maybe if I put him with skilled players, he'd do better".

I think you're wrong on this one, but the subject has been beaten to death. For my part, I wanted to see him for a game or two with Malkin before fully writing him off. Heck, I'd even have settled for a 2nd full shift this year. Given the circumstances this year, games where we were getting killed or games with Sid out where Geno was double shifting, there was no reason not to give that a quick look. As @Mr Jiggyfly has reminded me, it's going to look even crazier when Pearson hits a rut and ZAR 'earns' his way onto Geno's LW as a result.

Is what he's saying different from what most Sprong advocates are saying?

Yes, he's just not saying it irrationally.

 

[Riptide]

You seem awfully certain about that.

Sullivan desperately needs to win games. Even he's not that much of an idiot to the point that he'd keep sitting him even if he thought playing Sprong would win him games. This is where I think the biggest disconnect is with fans. Many see Sprong as someone who if used correctly should help score a lot of goals. I think Sullivan is seeing him as someone who does next to nothing to help his team if he's not scoring - and with his defensive game has frequently actually hurt his team's chances at winning... and hasn't scored even remotely close to enough goals to make up the difference.

But this is HF where promise and potential usually outweigh one's actual abilities.

I think he's right about how Sullivan views Sprong, but I think he's wrong about Sullivan refusing to give Sprong a chance because he's being stubborn. No, he's not giving Sprong a chance because he doesn't like his game and Sprong has actively hurt the team this year. I really don't get why people are acting as if Sullivan is unjust to not want Sprong in the lineup, considering how bad he has been when on the 4th line. I can't think of a coach that would watch a guy like Sprong perform like he did and think "maybe if I put him with skilled players, he'd do better".

Because it's HF. Prospects and potential always outweigh actual results.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Horny should not be on the fourth line.

A struggling Rust should not be played on his off wing.

The fact we continue to have this conversation after 20 games of seeing Rust used in a LW role and fail is bizarre.

There's no reason why Horny can't be on the 4th line or Rust can't play his off-wing. I just explained why, and you simply stating that it shouldn't happen isn't an argument. We lose nothing with either move but potentially gain something.

Rust being moved to LW in some dumbass configuration Sully set up is proof of nothing. Unlike Rust-Brassard-Kessel, those lines were doomed from the start.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yes, he's just not saying it irrationally.

In what way?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Probably because he has a better P/60 pace than any bottom 6 player despite the worst deployment of any player on the team, while ZAR "earned" a promotion to the top 9 despite 0 points and lousy possession numbers in his first 4 games and has stayed there despite having the worst P/60 of any forward on the team. And some wonder why we have trouble with depth scoring. Yeah, it's a real head-scratcher.

All you need to see to understand why Sprong would likely do better with better players is his underlying numbers when playing with good players last year, his production in spite of his circumstances this year, and his performance in his extremely limited opportunities with skilled players this year.

Kind of a triple whammy. The argument against it is, uh, the fact that he isn't producing a lot more in his 8.5 minutes a night with scrubs, which nobody in the league does, I guess?

No, the argument against Sprong is that he doesn't produce in 8.5 minutes and literally the rest of his stats are garbage too. His stats across the board are garbage, Sullivan is completely justified for not wanting to play him higher in the lineup. His play hasn't warranted it. Thinking Sprong should be used in a position of strength is one thing, complaining that Sullivan hasn't played a guy who has given horrid results in the top-9 is another.

Statistically, Sprong has done literally nothing positive this year. Doesn't generate chances, gets scored on a ton, the team doesn't score when he's on the ice...what there is good? Oh wow, he's outproducing the other **** depth pieces the Penguins have, bravo.

We've gone through this before WC, if you seriously think the argument against Sprong playing is "he hasn't produced while with Sheahan", you're not actually reading the posts you're responding to. Sullivan is completely justified for not promoting Sprong because his play hasn't warranted him getting promoted.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's no reason why Horny can't be on the 4th line or Rust can't play his off-wing. I just explained why, and you simply stating that it shouldn't happen isn't an argument. We lose nothing with either move but potentially gain something.

Rust being moved to LW in some dumbass configuration Sully set up is proof of nothing. Unlike Rust-Brassard-Kessel, those lines were doomed from the start.

I mean, there’s the fact Hornqvist is tied for third with EV goals this year. Why are you putting that on the 4th line?

Rust and Phil have played less than 5 minutes together this year and have 10 CA.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Thank the ****ing lord, finally.

 

[Riptide]

All you need to see to understand why Sprong would likely do better with better players is his underlying numbers when playing with good players last year, his production in spite of his circumstances this year, and his performance in his extremely limited opportunities with skilled players this year.

Why not look at his underlying numbers with good players this year? But then that would shoot down your argument when both Crosby and Brassard have been significantly better away from Sprong then they have been with Sprong.

And again, I still see you quoting ZAR's first 4 games here. Who gives a f*** about his first 4 games when he's played 12 games for us this season?

 

[JackFr]

Sprong to Anaheim incoming. Au revoir my sweet Dutch angel

 

[KIRK]

No, the argument against Sprong is that he doesn't produce in 8.5 minutes and literally the rest of his stats are garbage too. His stats across the board are garbage, Sullivan is completely justified for not wanting to play him higher in the lineup. His play hasn't warranted it. Thinking Sprong should be used in a position of strength is one thing, complaining that Sullivan hasn't played a guy who has given horrid results in the top-9 is another.

Statistically, Sprong has done literally nothing positive this year. Doesn't generate chances, gets scored on a ton, the team doesn't score when he's on the ice...what there is good? Oh wow, he's outproducing the other **** depth pieces the Penguins have, bravo.

We've gone through this before WC, if you seriously think the argument against Sprong playing is "he hasn't produced while with Sheahan", you're not actually reading the posts you're responding to. Sullivan is completely justified for not promoting Sprong because his play hasn't warranted him getting promoted.

Wreck his confidence and then complain that he doesn't play with confidence.

As I've said, it is what it is, but ironies do abound.