The All Purpose Pens Off Day Thread - Injuries, Practice, Lines, etc (Geno out long term; Bjugs too)

[Peat]

If the Pens' internal stats lead them to some of their recent UFA signings and trades, then I really wish they'd just start using the ones on Naturalstattrick instead.

Touche

I'd give a lot to find out which of our recent acquisitions were supported by the stats department and which ones weren't.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Touche

I'd give a lot to find out which of our recent acquisitions were supported by the stats department and which ones weren't.

Wasn't the Jack Johnson signing one that was done with the approval of the "analytics department" because their internal stats rated him highly in some sort of puck movement/transition stat? Pretty sure JR or someone in management referenced their internal stats suggesting he was better than the "regular" analytics that we see on NHL.com or Naturalstattrick suggest.

 

[Jacob]

Yep, he's not a good enough player that he can get away with not playing balls to the wall every night.

And is it really worth it, like are all the games where he’s invisible-to-detrimental worth the 8-10 where he’s very noticeable? Or should we just see if DiPauli or Miletic or Bjorkqvist can figure it out. The staff has enough problems to worry about than constantly reminding a 4th liner how to play like a 4th liner.

 

[Peat]

Wasn't the Jack Johnson signing one that was done with the approval of the "analytics department" because their internal stats rated him highly in some sort of puck movement/transition stat? Pretty sure JR or someone in management referenced their internal stats suggesting he was better than the "regular" analytics that we see on NHL.com or Naturalstattrick suggest.

Possibly; I forget exact details; but I do know that there was a stat about him being top 5 in passing accuracy that wasn't internal, and that might be what you're remembering. That said, I don't think that was a stat the management were touting. Now I think about, it does ring a bit of a bell.

Although the latest was that quote on whichever radio show it wasn't where it was said the coaching staff like JJ, the analytics department don't - and then the speaker corrected themselves to something like "Well, the coaching staff like JJ more than the analytics department".

 

[wej20]

And is it really worth it, like are all the games where he’s invisible-to-detrimental worth the 8-10 where he’s very noticeable? Or should we just see if DiPauli or Miletic or Bjorkqvist can figure it out. The staff has enough problems to worry about than constantly reminding a 4th liner how to play like a 4th liner.

If he could play like that most of the time then he'd carve out a good career in the bottom 6, if he doesn't figure it out then he'll bounce from team to as an NHL/AHL tweener. Sully obviously likes him but he best pull his finger out as with the current injuries guys like Lafferty and Adam Johnson are getting looks and the chance to outshine him.

 

[Andy99]

He's not a forward, he'll be fine



ZAR's offence came, as best as I understand, from going to the dirty areas and winning the puck. The scouting reports told us to expect a bottom 6 grinder. He simply doesn't have the offensive skills to be an offence-first player at this level unless he becomes Hornqvist. He either goes to the dirty areas and plays physical or he goes to the AHL. That simple imo.

As for his ability... I do find it strange how a player worse than Kuhnhackl paced for over 30 points in his first season and a bit in the NHL while always having strong possession/team metrics. But I know that's not persuading anyone.



It's come up before that the Penguins' internal stats defines chances differently to the metrics provided by the NHL.

well FYI, in Kuhn’s first “full” year in Pittsburgh he had 15 points in 42 games and ZAR had 17 in 43...very similar...it remains to be seen if he’ll remain as injured as Kuhn and go downhill as Kuhn did but this is an inauspicious start for him...btw, Kuhn was demoted to Bridgeport early in the season and had been a healthy scratch for the Isles and now playing his first game tonight..

 

[KIRK]

Yep, he's not a good enough player that he can get away with not playing balls to the wall every night.

Actually, whether or not he's good enough (and he's not), he can get away with it. If he couldn't, then Sully would hold him accountable.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Wasn't the Jack Johnson signing one that was done with the approval of the "analytics department" because their internal stats rated him highly in some sort of puck movement/transition stat? Pretty sure JR or someone in management referenced their internal stats suggesting he was better than the "regular" analytics that we see on NHL.com or Naturalstattrick suggest.

I think what you are thinking of is Sully apparently watched JJ's last 3 games for CBJ and was sold that he was fast enough to get back and make a good first pass.
I remember that and no talk of what Ventura thought.
I was always very curious about what he thought and i would've noticed if he or his dept. was mentioned.
Unless i missed an article(?) but i doubt it.

 

[WayneSid9987]

On ZAR, i'm betting you'll see a tiny uptick where it looks like he can actually handle NHL pace for once then he'll probably get injured. Thats usually how it goes for him.

 

[Pancakes]

I think people just expect too much out of some of these guys. Simon is gonna have strong possession stats and put up 30-40 points. It's not glamorous, but there's value in that.

ZAR will probably pot 10 goals and spend half the time being annoying to watch. But there's still value in that too.

 

[WayneSid9987]

We're in the right quadrant here.
Just gotta straighten out the high danger chances against and start putting more pucks in the net.
I know it's still early tho...

 

[Andy99]

We're in the right quadrant here.
Just gotta straighten out the high danger chances against and start putting more pucks in the net.
I know it's still early tho...

Lol...isn’t that just saying we have to play better hockey?

 

[WayneSid9987]

Lol...isn’t that just saying we have to play better hockey?

It's more that we've been getting a good share of the shot attempts vs our opponents.
But theres a goalie chart too that points out Murr is right on the line of dull and bad. Think that stinker vs WPG knocked him back there.

Anywho, any chart where you are close to CAR is a good thing right now.

Still gonna be tough sledding with the injuries atm, for sure.
Need a style that will keep them in games/picking up points.
Hitting on a correct 6D to dress finally can certainly help them find that style.

 

[Andy99]

It's more that we've been getting a good share of the shot attempts vs our opponents.
But theres a goalie chart too that points out Murr is right on the line of dull and bad. Think that stinker vs WPG knocked him back there.

Anywho, any chart where you are close to CAR is a good thing right now.

Still gonna be tough sledding with the injuries atm, for sure.
Need a style that will keep them in games/picking up points.
Hitting on a correct 6D to dress finally can certainly help them find that style.

From the eye test too it looks like we’re shooting enough but we just don’t have a lot of finishers...I think we’ll have to play like we did last game, with a lot of defensive structure and energy to have a chance to win...going to have to outwork people

 

[WayneSid9987]

From the eye test too it looks like we’re shooting enough but we just don’t have a lot of finishers...I think we’ll have to play like we did last game, with a lot of defensive structure and energy to have a chance to win...going to have to outwork people

Yea that'll be the battle is getting them to keep a good pace to outwork teams.
With Marino, Lafferty, AJ, Blandisi in they SHOULD be able to skate well enough but the skating has to be combined with winning the puck battles.

 

[Andy99]

Yea that'll be the battle is getting them to keep a good pace to outwork teams.
With Marino, Lafferty, AJ, Blandisi in they SHOULD be able to skate well enough but the skating has to be combined with winning the puck battles.

that’s why I’d sit ZAR...lol

 

[WayneSid9987]

that’s why I’d sit ZAR...lol

Deffo i'd love to see DiPauli or Angello get a taste.

 

[Bgav]

How has guddy been?

 

[Peat]

I'm glad Ottawa is in the fun section of that chart, at least the fans get to see some interesting hockey.

From the eye test too it looks like we’re shooting enough but we just don’t have a lot of finishers...I think we’ll have to play like we did last game, with a lot of defensive structure and energy to have a chance to win...going to have to outwork people

I'm a broken clock when it comes to this, but goals in the NHL do come easiest when you manage to break the opposition's structure - even for teams with very good shooters, it's hard to get it going if you allow the opposition to bend but not break, no matter how many shots you get. If last game saw the team stick to their structure and take full opportunity of the moments where they lost theirs, that's the model for winning hockey in this league.

 

[Andy99]

I'm glad Ottawa is in the fun section of that chart, at least the fans get to see some interesting hockey.



I'm a broken clock when it comes to this, but goals in the NHL do come easiest when you manage to break the opposition's structure - even for teams with very good shooters, it's hard to get it going if you allow the opposition to bend but not break, no matter how many shots you get. If last game saw the team stick to their structure and take full opportunity of the moments where they lost theirs, that's the model for winning hockey in this league.

oh I agree...but there’s a stat for shooting % for a reason...and PDO...you rarely get a wide open net even when you break down the structure...you can get good opportunities but you still need the quick hands, and hand eye coordination, to either beat the goalie or deceive him...

 

[KIRK]

Lol...isn’t that just saying we have to play better hockey?

Yes, but I think what the chart does is confirm what the eye test shows . . . that the Pens don't necessarily give up an outlandish number of chances, but when the give up chances, they tend to be high danger due to some breakdown.

 

[dogthateats]

Malkin is getting to hang out with his family a lot while he is injured (judging by his wife’s instagram stories). That seems like a good thing considering some of the stories that have come out recently.

 

[66-30-33]

How has guddy been?

Baddy.