The All Purpose Pens Off Day Thread - Injuries, Practice, Injuries, Lines, More Injuries, etc

[Empoleon8771]

The annoying part about the people who bitch about Simon on the top line is that they never offer a better alternative. They literally do not have anyone internally that can fill in that spot better, just because their options are limited. When Kahun is healthy, Kahun is a guy that fill that spot better, but he's not healthy and you're kinda screwing over Malkin by putting Kahun with Crosby. Same with Rust, but you're hurting Malkin even more by taking Rust from him.

Tanev and McCann don't have the playmaking to help the Zucker-Crosby duo, Hornqvist doesn't have the speed or the playmaking needed and every other player has no business even sniffing that spot. You have to make a trade to fill that spot better, so complaining about the Penguins running with the best option they can for that spot doesn't make any sense. It's the same way with JJ-Letang on the top pair, they literally can't do anything better because Riikola and Schultz suck and the defense is ravaged by injuries.

 

[PhilThrillPill]

Zucker-Crosby-Rust
Kahun-Malkin-Horny
McCannn-Blueger-Tanev
Lafferty-AHL-Simon

whoever is playing better needs to be bumped to Sid/Malkins lines with in game tweaks.

 

[JackFr]

The thing is my answer to the Simon problem is Conor Sheary so probably better for my safety to stay quiet

 

[ownal]

The annoying part about the people who bitch about Simon on the top line is that they never offer a better alternative. They literally do not have anyone internally that can fill in that spot better, just because their options are limited. When Kahun is healthy, Kahun is a guy that fill that spot better, but he's not healthy and you're kinda screwing over Malkin by putting Kahun with Crosby. Same with Rust, but you're hurting Malkin even more by taking Rust from him.

Tanev and McCann don't have the playmaking to help the Zucker-Crosby duo, Hornqvist doesn't have the speed or the playmaking needed and every other player has no business even sniffing that spot. You have to make a trade to fill that spot better, so complaining about the Penguins running with the best option they can for that spot doesn't make any sense. It's the same way with JJ-Letang on the top pair, they literally can't do anything better because Riikola and Schultz suck and the defense is ravaged by injuries.

We don't have to think of internal options until after 4 PM tomorrow.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The thing is my answer to the Simon problem is Conor Sheary so probably better for my safety to stay quiet

Go from one guy who isn't a hindrance to his line but simply cannot score or create offensively to a guy who is atrocious without the puck and against any kind of tight checking but has a shot.

I love those options.

 

[KIRK]

Zucker-Crosby-Rust
Kahun-Malkin-Horny
McCannn-Blueger-Tanev
Lafferty-AHL-Simon

whoever is playing better needs to be bumped to Sid/Malkins lines with in game tweaks.

That might be the least bad option right now.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Tanev and McCann don't have the playmaking to help the Zucker-Crosby duo, Hornqvist doesn't have the speed or the playmaking needed and every other player has no business even sniffing that spot. You have to make a trade to fill that spot better, so complaining about the Penguins running with the best option they can for that spot doesn't make any sense.

I agree with you that Simon is a fine option and Sid likes him.

Kahun-Malkin-Rust should really cook if/when Rust snaps out of it (or shakes off whatever nagging injury he's got going).

However, for me playmaking isn't a prerequisite with Sid & Zucker. Sidney Crosby is great at that. We paid Addison, a 1st and $5.5M/year of cap space for Zucker so uh he should be able to do that too. I'm skeptical but I'm in the bottom quintile of this board in terms of my initial impression of Zucker so going with consensus he should be able to. Besides you need someone to finish the playmaking. Hornqvist in particular is in great form right now.

 

[JackFr]

Go from one guy who isn't a hindrance to his line but simply cannot score or create offensively to a guy who is atrocious without the puck and against any kind of tight checking but has a shot.

I love those options.

Look, if Simon's only problem this year was finishing (like last year) I wouldn't be saying this. But he's been just plain bad.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I agree with you that Simon is a fine option and Sid likes him.

Kahun-Malkin-Rust should really cook if/when Rust snaps out of it (or shakes off whatever nagging injury he's got going).

However, for me playmaking isn't a prerequisite with Sid & Zucker. Sidney Crosby is great at that. We paid Addison, a 1st and $5.5M/year of cap space for Zucker so uh he should be able to do that too. I'm skeptical but I'm in the bottom quintile of this board in terms of my initial impression of Zucker so going with consensus he should be able to. Besides you need someone to finish the playmaking. Hornqvist in particular is in great form right now.

When I say playmaking there, I don't mean a Steve Sullivan type playmaker, just someone else who is capable of making plays with the puck on his stick regularly. Zucker isn't a bad playmaker, with assists like today as proof of that, but he's much more of a goal scorer than a playmaker. You want someone who can feed Crosby and Zucker for chances more regularly than what the internal options can do.

Finishing the playmaking isn't a problem for that line, both Crosby and Zucker can score a lot of goals. They need someone else who can make plays with the puck more than anything. Guys thrown out as better options than Simon for the top line are never better than Simon at that. You have to reach outside of the organization to get that, that or screw over Malkin.

 

[ChaosAgent]

When I say playmaking there, I don't mean a Steve Sullivan type playmaker, just someone else who is capable of making plays with the puck on his stick regularly. Zucker isn't a bad playmaker, with assists like today as proof of that, but he's much more of a goal scorer than a playmaker. You want someone who can feed Crosby and Zucker for chances more regularly than what the internal options can do.

Finishing the playmaking isn't a problem for that line, both Crosby and Zucker can score a lot of goals. They need someone else who can make plays with the puck more than anything. Guys thrown out as better options than Simon for the top line are never better than Simon at that. You have to reach outside of the organization to get that, that or screw over Malkin.

Fair play, but I think if anything Sid & Zuck need help in their own zone. They are getting hemmed in way too often. No one likes McCann anymore and I'm not sure he's on the team in 16 hours, but I still may give that a shot assuming he's still around. I realize that his playmaking/offensive instincts aren't there whatsoever but I want that forecheck/backcheck/paycheck with Sid more than anything.

 

[TKalltheTime]

That might be the least bad option right now.

Swap Rust with Horny (Sid be damned) and I’d say so.

 

[cygnus47]

Fair play, but I think if anything Sid & Zuck need help in their own zone. They are getting hemmed in way too often. No one likes McCann anymore and I'm not sure he's on the team in 16 hours, but I still may give that a shot assuming he's still around. I realize that his playmaking/offensive instincts aren't there whatsoever but I want that forecheck/backcheck/paycheck with Sid more than anything.

Until Dumo is back and Johnson isn't playing behind them, I don't think you can worry about us getting hemmed in our zone. D that can make plays is the most important thing behind the centre for that.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Look, if Simon's only problem this year was finishing (like last year) I wouldn't be saying this. But he's been just plain bad.

His advanced stats before Sid’s return were pretty good despite a struggle through November and a good bit of December. After Sid returned it was bad and steadied after the Zucker trade.

I think it’s more Sid still recovering and the fact that they probably play a lot with JJ. If it’s with other D men they’ve been struggling too.



Before Sid’s return
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

After Sid’s return before Zucker
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

After Zucker trade
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I just don't get why anyone would go to bat for someone who probably hits 10 goals in a good season. We really should be aiming higher for our top line than that just because his CF% is solid. I mean, why not ZAR and Simon with Sid? Who cares if they score a combined 15 goals as long as their CF% is great!

 

[JackFr]

His advanced stats before Sid’s return were pretty good despite a struggle through November and a good bit of December. After Sid returned it was bad and steadied after the Zucker trade.

I think it’s more Sid still recovering and the fact that they probably play a lot with JJ. If it’s with other D men they’ve been struggling too.

Before Sid’s return
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

After Sid’s return before Zucker
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

After Zucker trade
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

His raw stats are okayish but when adjusted for team they're a lot worse. By EvolvingWild's xGAR (which plays to Simon's strength since it's more based on expected goals than actual ones) he's been replacement-level this season, and in GAR he's well below.

Remember that during that first stretch we were one of the best xG teams in the league, particularly on defence. Nonetheless he was one of our worst defensive players in that respect.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I just don't get why anyone would go to bat for someone who probably hits 10 goals in a good season. We really should be aiming higher for our top line than that just because his CF% is solid. I mean, why not ZAR and Simon with Sid? Who cares if they score a combined 15 goals as long as their CF% is great!

I stand by my previous post. The numbers are there and the context is my opinion but I don’t think it’s far fetched.

It’s easy to criticise without providing an alternative. I usually post about Simon because I think the complaining is excessive especially when most don’t provide a solution. Even saying I think “such and such would work better because” would be a better discussion.

Now the current alternatives are basically Kahun (who’s injured). I think he could work well but they’ve only played 11 mins together so not sure what’s going on there.

Rust is another but he’s played with Geno all year. I could get on board with that because I think Horny and Geno with the right LW (Internally probably Kahun again still injured).

I like Simon. Do I think he’s the greatest? No but I don’t think he’s terrible either and he still is ranked 10th for forwards in ATOI even though he gets time on L1.

TL/DR: What’s your alternatives? I think the discussion would go better

 

[EightyOne]

Four players need to be improved upon today *hopeful*


Four players will NOT be approved upon today *reality*

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I stand by my previous post. The numbers are there and the context is my opinion but I don’t think it’s far fetched.

It’s easy to criticise without providing an alternative. I usually post about Simon because I think the complaining is excessive especially when most don’t provide a solution. Even saying I think “such and such would work better because” would be a better discussion.

Now the current alternatives are basically Kahun (who’s injured). I think he could work well but they’ve only played 11 mins together so not sure what’s going on there.

Rust is another but he’s played with Geno all year. I could get on board with that because I think Horny and Geno with the right LW (Internally probably Kahun again still injured).

I like Simon. Do I think he’s the greatest? No but I don’t think he’s terrible either and he still is ranked 10th for forwards in ATOI even though he gets time on L1.

TL/DR: What’s your alternatives? I think the discussion would go better

*Right now* I'd go with either Hornqvist or even try a guy like Tanev on that line with Sid and Zucker. Someone who can do the "dirty work" for Sid and Zucker. When everyone is healthy, I'd rather they go with Kahun.

I just think it's crazy to be okay with a guy who tops out at 10 goals and 30 points ON YOUR TOP LINE. Look at the top lines for the other contenders, and then look at Simon on ours. Especially as Sid ages and can't be expected to be the "he'll score 100 points no matter who is on his line" Sid at this point.

At some point, simply having solid analytics (and it sounds like he doesn't even have that this year) isn't enough. You need actual production from your top line guys, otherwise you'll have games like today where they "won the shot attempts battle" but lost because they couldn't bury enough pucks.

 

[Tom Hanks]

His raw stats are okayish but when adjusted for team they're a lot worse. By EvolvingWild's xGAR (which plays to Simon's strength since it's more based on expected goals than actual ones) he's been replacement-level this season, and in GAR he's well below.

Remember that during that first stretch we were one of the best xG teams in the league, particularly on defence. Nonetheless he was one of our worst defensive players in that respect.

Maybe I’m not seeing something because when you look at the links I posted he does well compared to teammates in quite a few and low in others (that’s where I posted my perceived context).

I do watch the games too but me saying he’s looked good at the start of the season then after a bad patch looked good again (from the end of December) more often than not until now might not mean much.

Not that he’s without criticism but I don’t see any realistic alternatives (from my perspective) that are better right now. Kahun and Rust are two for me but ones injured and hasn’t played with Sid really (not sure why?). Rust is with Geno but I’d be cool with that changing too.

 

[Strakanator]

Hornquist is not a top 6 player in the NHL now. Putting him on Geno’s line just screws Geno.

I would love to see Tanev in the top 6. That would be a new look.

 

[Tom Hanks]

*Right now* I'd go with either Hornqvist or even try a guy like Tanev on that line with Sid and Zucker. Someone who can do the "dirty work" for Sid and Zucker. When everyone is healthy, I'd rather they go with Kahun.

I just think it's crazy to be okay with a guy who tops out at 10 goals and 30 points ON YOUR TOP LINE. Look at the top lines for the other contenders, and then look at Simon on ours. Especially as Sid ages and can't be expected to be the "he'll score 100 points no matter who is on his line" Sid at this point.

At some point, simply having solid analytics (and it sounds like he doesn't even have that this year) isn't enough. You need actual production from your top line guys, otherwise you'll have games like today where they "won the shot attempts battle" but lost because they couldn't bury enough pucks.

Thanks appreciate that. I’ll agree to disagree on Tanev and Hornqvist if it’s Zucker on the other side but yeah Kahun for sure.

Simon doesn’t play as much there as you might think though and if the line scores at a pretty good rate that’s what matters more for me. The GA is a concern but I think that’s more to do with Sid’s recovery
and sucky D.

Sure if you can improve L1 great but generally that’s going to cost more money or costly in a trade so might be more difficult with our current situation.

Kahun for sure is a better player and it’s worth a try to see if they click. They should, Kahun has good skills. Question will be how well he reads Sid but worth it to find out. I’m not sure why they’ve only played 11 minutes together at 5v5 given our injuries, but of a head scratcher.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Hornquist is not a top 6 player in the NHL now. Putting him on Geno’s line just screws Geno.

I would love to see Tanev in the top 6. That would be a new look.

Geno-Hornqvist score at a fantastic rate this season 5.35 goals per 60. That’s pretty amazing. A shorter sample size than the more established lines in the league but enough of a sample size to show that they convert really well and are defensively good.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Remember that one week we were at the top of the division?

Now this team is on a 3 game losing streak that has allowed 14 goals in 3 games and scored 5.

I guess Sullivan can hold his teddy tight tonight knowing his boy Trots played 2 games and the team subsequently gave up 10 goals and scored 5.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I really don't understand our blueline management this season, even before the injuries.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hornquist is not a top 6 player in the NHL now. Putting him on Geno’s line just screws Geno.

I would love to see Tanev in the top 6. That would be a new look.

That's garbage talk mate, Hornqvist's face should be the Penguins logo as far as I am f***ing concerned.