Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread | DeSmith Re-assigned, Jarry Recalled

[NMK11]

Here we go again with the MAF love fest.

3 days before the game and the media is already writing articles about him.

Eh, just embrace it. We kept the better, younger, and cheaper goalie that we all wanted, so let the media and yinzers fawn. And even as we cringe a little, lets remember that Fleury was a huge part of this team on and off the ice for so long. He had his playoff moments, but there were long stretches of regular season time when he kept this team alive.


Im taking a page out of Coles book and being positive here. We got who we want, and Fleury is in a great place. Everyone wins.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Here we go again with the MAF love fest.

3 days before the game and the media is already writing articles about him.

I saw one about crying on twitter. No, I’m not 5.


Yes, this is what was needed.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It's difficult to assess ZAR because he only played 6-7 min and the whole team did not play well, but I really didn't see anything from him that screams top 6. In fact, the shot he had on goal on the PP tells the story. Nice pass from Simon in the slot and he shoots it right into the goalie's chest. It was a similar play to what Sid did against WSH to Horny, and yet Horny shoots it top shelf for a goal.

I'll be interested to see if Sprong gets called up at all for Tues if Horny remains out. He would have been more help last night than ZAR. Vegas is also a speedy, high pressure team. Someone like Sprong or Di Pauli would put more pressure on Vegas to execute, and could get some scoring chances, unlike ZAR. Of course I'd rather see ZAR than the other fourth liners...boy Sully can be so pig-headed....

No one has really suggested ZAR as a top 6 player. He probably tops out as a 3rd liner.

JR can call up Sprong if he wants too. He is the GM after all.

 

[Andy99]

I saw one about crying on twitter. No, I’m not 5.


Yes, this is what was needed.

Why can't we get Sprong to go with him?

 

[Andy99]

No one has really suggested ZAR as a top 6 player. He probably tops out as a 3rd liner.

JR can call up Sprong if he wants too. He is the GM after all.

If Sully won't play him, why would he do that. Sprong should be playing somewhere. I'm also not sure we have space or money for him unless someone else goes down or Horny is placed on IR...

 

[Speaking Moistly]

No one has really suggested ZAR as a top 6 player. He probably tops out as a 3rd liner.

JR can call up Sprong if he wants too. He is the GM after all.

People did in the offseason. He was going to push Hornqvist out this season at one point. Then people saw him in the preseason.

Right now, idk. It’s not “omg, bust!” time but I think he’s probably going to top out as a 3rd liner and I wouldn’t consider that a guarantee. imo, he’s not a great skater but it’s his skating with what has appeared to be his IQ that’s concerning. He just doesn’t process things as quickly as you’d like and it was before he saw nhl time quality competition. If one were stronger he’d be better suited.

That being said, Sullivan set him up to fail yesterday.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If Sully won't play him, why would he do that. Sprong should be playing somewhere. I'm also not sure we have space or money for him unless someone else goes down or Horny is placed on IR...

If Sprong is up and there are 12 forwards he’ll play. Sprong also has more ATOI than Simon, Kuhnhackl, Rowney, Reaves, ZAR and Dea.

There will be money if he moves Kuhnhackl, Rowney, Reaves down and/or out.

 

[NMK11]

People did in the offseason. He was going to push Hornqvist out this season at one point. Then people saw him in the preseason.

Right now, idk. It’s not “omg, bust!” time but I think he’s probably going to top out as a 3rd liner and I wouldn’t consider that a guarantee. imo, he’s not a great skater but it’s his skating with what has appeared to be his IQ that’s concerning. He just doesn’t process things as quickly as you’d like and it was before he saw nhl time quality competition. If one were stronger he’d be better suited.

That being said, Sullivan set him up to fail yesterday.

Yeah, there were definitely people who saw him as a top 6 wing. I defer to the people who watch WBS on this stuff, who were all more reserved about him. Id still give him a few more games up to get his legs under him before/if we send him back down. He is an older prospect, so I really cant see him peaking too much higher with more time in WBS. Even if he tops out as a third or fourth liner, he should be up full time if not this season then next season.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeah, there were definitely people who saw him as a top 6 wing. I defer to the people who watch WBS on this stuff, who were all more reserved about him. Id still give him a few more games up to get his legs under him before/if we send him back down. He is an older prospect, so I really cant see him peaking too much higher with more time in WBS. Even if he tops out as a third or fourth liner, he should be up full time if not this season then next season.

Yeah, but they have gotten nhl players out of Sheary and Rust so his age isn’t too concerning right now. Blueger is a bit older as well. Next year will be more important but something needs to stand out about him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I didn't see enough of ZAR to make any serious claims about him at this point. His skating didn't look like a problem to me, but I didn't notice his physicality at all. Remember, he did play the night before with WBS and it was his first pro game, so I'm not going to take much out of this game. He was set up in a position to fail and the rest of the team sucked too.

I don't recall many people saying ZAR would be a top-6 winger. Maybe some did, but I think the "he can replace Hornqvist" was more so saying "he can do what Hornqvist does on the PP". It was still ridiculous, but he doesn't need to be as good as Hornqvist to replace what Hornqvist does. I keep thinking Maroon as a comparable for ZAR's upside, not a perfect comparable but someone right on that level.

 

[Andy99]

If Sprong is up and there are 12 forwards he’ll play. Sprong also has more ATOI than Simon, Kuhnhackl, Rowney, Reaves, ZAR and Dea.

There will be money if he moves Kuhnhackl, Rowney, Reaves down and/or out.

It's already been shown that thinking that Sully will move Kuhn, Rowney or Reaves off the roster is highly delusional thinking, possible from an insane person, lol. Believing that voices are telling you to slay all blue-eyed people is actually more rational than believing Sully will move any of those three off the roster...

 

[Tom Hanks]

It's already been shown that thinking that Sully will move Kuhn, Rowney or Reaves off the roster is highly delusional thinking, possible from an insane person, lol. Believing that voices are telling you to slay all blue-eyed people is actually more rational than believing Sully will move any of those three off the roster...

Well it’s a good thing Sully isn’t in charge of roster moves. That’s part of a GM’s job description.

 

[Jacob]

Look at Jagr. This city will never move on from Fleury.

It’s going to be crammed down your throats every time we play Vegas. Every time one of our goalies shits the bed people will want to bring him back.

 

[NMK11]

I didn't see enough of ZAR to make any serious claims about him at this point. His skating didn't look like a problem to me, but I didn't notice his physicality at all. Remember, he did play the night before with WBS and it was his first pro game, so I'm not going to take much out of this game. He was set up in a position to fail and the rest of the team sucked too.

I don't recall many people saying ZAR would be a top-6 winger. Maybe some did, but I think the "he can replace Hornqvist" was more so saying "he can do what Hornqvist does on the PP". It was still ridiculous, but he doesn't need to be as good as Hornqvist to replace what Hornqvist does. I keep thinking Maroon as a comparable for ZAR's upside, not a perfect comparable but someone right on that level.

For sure. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as long as he looks like an average fourth liner, he should stay up. He's not a top 6 or bust guy like sprong who is going to be better served on wbs first line rather than our fourth. Im all for giving him a good few games and going from there, but I expect that unless he puts up 2 ppg he's getting sent down sooner rather than later

 

[Andy99]

Well it’s a good thing Sully isn’t in charge of roster moves. That’s part of a GM’s job description.

JR is not going against his coach. He'd discuss it with him and Sully would say "I prefer to play X" and that's the end of it.....JR is not making decisions in a vacuum or ones that will jeopardize his relationship with the coach, assuming he likes the coach and doesn't want to get rid of him....

 

[Empoleon8771]

For sure. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as long as he looks like an average fourth liner, he should stay up. He's not a top 6 or bust bus like sprong who is going to be better served on wbs first line rather than our fourth. Im all for giving him a good few games and going from there, but I expect that unless he puts up 2 ppg he's getting sent down sooner rather than later

Yeah, if my knowledge of him is accurate, ZAR can pretty much completely replace Kuhnhackl and also bring more talent to the table, so that's what I'd like to see them do. Add another center and try to make your 4th line ZAR-Sheahan-Rust for the end of the season.

To be honest, I hate the Penguins 3rd line right now, but I don't know how to change it that much. I just really dislike the Guentzel-Kessel duo.

 

[Tom Hanks]

JR is not going against his coach. He'd discuss it with him and Sully would say "I prefer to play X" and that's the end of it.....JR is not making decisions in a vacuum or ones that will jeopardize his relationship with the coach, assuming he likes the coach....

Well Sully doesn’t like playing Reaves so why is he up then........because that’s what JR wants.

Kuhnhackl, Rowney (when not injured) and Reaves as a 4th line is terrible. It’s not like it’s them or WBS players. There are a lot of 4th liners out there.

 

[Andy99]

Well Sully doesn’t like playing Reaves so why is he up then........because that’s what JR wants.

Kuhnhackl, Rowney (when not injured) and Reaves as a 4th line is terrible. It’s not like it’s them or WBS players. There are a lot of 4th liners out there.

Well someone is going to get scratched when you have 13 forwards. That's not JR's purview. Not every fourth line scrub we have can be scratched or they couldn't field 12 forwards

Anyone who thinks JR is telling Sully, Recchi etc who's going to waived or traded or sent up or down WITHOUT the coaching staff's approval really has a disfunctional view of how a good organization works. Just like Kevin Colbert is not going to make draft and personnel decisions without the input of Tomlin...they don't want a contentious relationship. If Sully went to JR and said I think we should waive Rowney and call up Blueger because he's a better fit at 4C, it would be done....assuming cap issues worked too

 

[Tom Hanks]

Well someone is going to get scratched when you have 13 forwards. That's not JR's purview. Not every fourth line scrub we have can be scratched or they couldn't field 12 forwards

Anyone who thinks JR is telling Sully, Recchi etc who's going to waived or traded or sent up or down WITHOUT the coaching staff's approval really has a disfunctional view of how a good organization works. Just like Kevin Colbert is not going to make draft and personnel decisions without the input of Tomlin...they don't want a contentious relationship. If Sully went to JR and said I think we should waive Rowney and call up Blueger because he's a better fit at 4C, it would be done....assuming cap issues worked too

That’s the problem! We have too many ineffective players.

So are you saying even if JR thinks Kuhnhackl-Rowney-Reaves is a terrible 4th line he won’t do anything if that’s what the coach wants. Why have a GM then? Sully doesn’t play Rowney or Reaves that much so I doubt he’s saying don’t move them.

 

[BobCole]

Anyone who thinks JR is telling Sully, Recchi etc who's going to waived or traded or sent up or down WITHOUT the coaching staff's approval really has a disfunctional view of how a good organization works...If Sully went to JR and said I think we should waive Rowney and call up Blueger because he's a better fit at 4C, it would be done....assuming cap issues worked too

This is pretty close to being the direct opposite of how this works.

Does the coach give the GM input? Yes. But the GM makes the final decisions on which players are available to the coach, and that's that.

 

[Andy99]

That’s the problem! We have too many ineffective players.

So are you saying even if JR thinks Kuhnhackl-Rowney-Reaves is a terrible 4th line he won’t do anything if that’s what the coach wants. Why have a GM then? Sully doesn’t play Rowney or Reaves that much so I doubt he’s saying don’t move them.

I agree. The fourth line is bad. That's on JR. There are replacement choices in WBS. Obviously they don't think they're better. That's on Sully. (And perhaps Shero if the farm system isn't good enough). As you can see, very few trades have been made across the NHL. JR is not going to be able to trade for three new fourth line players. But who's waived, called up and who's playing out of those options ultimately rests with Sully because they're not going to be called up (or waived) if the coach isn't or is going to play them....

 

[Pancakes]

Don't quite get sending Desmith down. He's been good in just about every start he gets. And he was the only reason we didn't get blown out last night.

 

[Andy99]

This is pretty close to being the direct opposite of how this works.

Does the coach give the GM input? Yes. But the GM makes the final decisions on which players are available to the coach, and that's that.

Again, technically he makes the final decision, but it's not happening if the coach doesn't ok it. That's the reality of a good working organization. He doesn't want to get players the coach thinks are a bad fit or he won't play....
Reaves was obtained with Sully ok, but probably mostly because Sid wanted him...

 

[Pancakes]

Again, technically he makes the final decision, but it's not happening if the coach doesn't ok it. That's the reality of a good working organization. He doesn't want to get players the coach thinks are a bad fit or he won't play....
Reaves was obtained with Sully ok, but probably mostly because Sid wanted him...

There's no way to know without inside information but my sense has always been that we got Reaves mainly because JR and ownership wanted him. Everyone in the org was tired of seeing Sid get cheap shot. I don't think Sid or Sully went out and asked for protection for Sid.

 

[BobCole]

Again, technically he makes the final decision, but it's not happening if the coach doesn't ok it. That's the reality of a good working organization. He doesn't want to get players the coach thinks are a bad fit or he won't play....
Reaves was obtained with Sully ok, but probably mostly because Sid wanted him...

This just isn't true. Again, in a healthy professional relationship a GM and coach are on the same page about these things, but the idea that GMJR gets the "ok" from the coach is just false.