The All Purpose "Jack Johnson Sucks" Thread

[Gurglesons]

We all knew who JJ was. This guy just came in here gloating about it for whatever reason like this entire board didn't realize JJ would suck when we signed him.

No. There was a sect of this board that for some reason thought and some still think JJ isn’t an issue or better than Maatta.

 

[Pancakes]

No. There was a sect of this board that for some reason thought and some still think JJ isn’t an issue or better than Maatta.

A very small sect. Most people did not like the move.

But yeah I still vehemently disagree with anyone who thinks he's better in any way than Maatta

 

[KIRK]

No. There was a sect of this board that for some reason thought and some still think JJ isn’t an issue or better than Maatta.

Those are two very different animals.

 

[Gurglesons]

Those are two very different animals.

One has two cup rings, one has two cup rings earned without him?

 

[KIRK]

One has two cup rings, one has two cup rings earned without him?

As I've said, they both suck, although I'll grant you Johnson sucks more (unfortunately, that gap probably has narrowed though).

 

[Gurglesons]

As I've said, they both suck, although I'll grant you Johnson sucks more (unfortunately, that gap probably has narrowed though).

Maatta is a consistent # 5 ( with flashes of a # 4) that JR threw money at. JJ shouldn’t be in the league

 

[Shady Machine]

As I've said, they both suck, although I'll grant you Johnson sucks more (unfortunately, that gap probably has narrowed though).

I don't think Maatta sucks. I just don't think he's the right player for this team and the game is generally trending away from where he's most successful.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Maatta sucks. I just don't think he's the right player for this team and the game is generally trending away from where he's most successful.

Toronto = Zaitsev
Tampa = Girardi
Boston = Carlo
Caps = Orpik

Many teams have equivalents to Maatta on their roster.

 

[Pengwins]

Maatta is ok/bad in regular season and a complete trainwreck in the playoffs. His game 1 performance might be the worst performance I've ever seen

Maatta is a bigger problem than Jack Johnson

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Olli Maatta sucks, with regard to what this team should be attempting to do and the greater scope of the current NHL landscape. The league has passed him by. He's smart, he knows how to read plays, and that's the only reason he hasn't been buried in the AHL a la Wade Redden. His wheels just are not NHL caliber in any shape or form. He can't skate pucks out of danger, which is a supremely valuable, near required trait. He can't recover from a bad pinch or what have you. He's just going to get torn apart as the speedy forecheckers close the gap to nil and he's pressured into turnovers all evening long.

Now, JJ also sucks. The guy is the opposite in Maatta when it comes to reading the play and making smart decisions. Just a complete clown on the ice, and nearly always in the middle of things when they go wrong. He had a nice little stretch of decent hockey, relative to his 12 year average or however long he's been in this league, but he came back down to earth with a thud.

I think they're both absolute, must-move guys. I'm not sure the organization feels that way, nor am I confident that we'll get much of anything for either if we manage to move them (yikes @ JJ's term), but I do think they should be looked at with a sense of urgency.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I think Olli Maatta sucks, with regard to what this team should be attempting to do and the greater scope of the current NHL landscape. The league has passed him by. He's smart, he knows how to read plays, and that's the only reason he hasn't been buried in the AHL a la Wade Redden. His wheels just are not NHL caliber in any shape or form. He can't skate pucks out of danger, which is a supremely valuable, near required trait. He can't recover from a bad pinch or what have you. He's just going to get torn apart as the speedy forecheckers close the gap to nil and he's pressured into turnovers all evening long.

Now, JJ also sucks. The guy is the opposite in Maatta when it comes to reading the play and making smart decisions. Just a complete clown on the ice, and nearly always in the middle of things when they go wrong. He had a nice little stretch of decent hockey, relative to his 12 year average or however long he's been in this league, but he came back down to earth with a thud.

I think they're both absolute, must-move guys. I'm not sure the organization feels that way, nor am I confident that we'll get much of anything for either if we manage to move them (yikes @ JJ's term), but I do think they should be looked at with a sense of urgency.

Same dog...different fleas

Maata I think would flourish in the Western Conference though.

JJ might as well- he wasn't "as bad" when he played in LA, but he was also younger

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Same dog...different fleas

Maata I think would flourish in the Western Conference though.

JJ might as well- he wasn't "as bad" when he played in LA, but he was also younger

I used to think the same. Maatta, tailor-made for the West, but even that conference is going more and more toward speed and skill now. Colorado, Calgary, Vegas, San Jose, even teams like Vancouver with their young guns would shred the guy. I genuinely just think he's not cut out for playing in this league with the current landscape being speed, skill and aggressive forecheck.

JJ is such an odd case, man. Every single indicator says he never should have been a full-time NHLer, but he's been around for more than a decade, doing the same garbage everywhere he goes.

I think they're both absolutely crippling players for us though. Not that I know how JR will move them, or what he'll get back for them, but this blueline's a big ol' stinker and those two are the biggest offenders.

 

[vikingGoalie]

i'm with the big friggin dummy. (sorry just had to say that phrase). Only thing I'd add is I do think you can trade JJ, someone will take him even at that term. JJ's stretch of good play coincided with us as a team committing to team defense and keeping things simple. If our star players are unable/willing to do so then JJ should be dumped. Personally I'd much rather keep Guds then JJ as we saw marked improvement in Guds under gonchar's tutelage, and I am interested in seeing what a proper training camp and another year of decent coaching can do for him.

Also I think it's time to move Hornqvist, I love his energy and passion for the game, but he looks like he is about to fall off a cliff for his effectiveness. We move Hornqvist, Maatta, and maybe JJ that frees up a ton of space. Though there are rumors about Letang not being safe as well. I expect some big moves in the offseason...

 

[Pens x]

i'm with the big friggin dummy. (sorry just had to say that phrase). Only thing I'd add is I do think you can trade JJ, someone will take him even at that term. JJ's stretch of good play coincided with us as a team committing to team defense and keeping things simple. If our star players are unable/willing to do so then JJ should be dumped. Personally I'd much rather keep Guds then JJ as we saw marked improvement in Guds under gonchar's tutelage, and I am interested in seeing what a proper training camp and another year of decent coaching can do for him.

Also I think it's time to move Hornqvist, I love his energy and passion for the game, but he looks like he is about to fall off a cliff for his effectiveness. We move Hornqvist, Maatta, and maybe JJ that frees up a ton of space. Though there are rumors about Letang not being safe as well. I expect some big moves in the offseason...

There is 0 chance any team takes Johnson, sorry. I think it would be extremely difficult to move Hornqvist as well. We’d have to retain some cap and/or give them a pretty piece.

I think we are stuck with these contracts. We don’t have many attentive assets to trade to teams to take these players off of our hands. Hunwick’s contract wasn’t nearly as bad as Horny and Johnson’s contracts, and it took adding Sheary to unload Hunwick.

 

[Joejosh999]

I think some team will want Horny and Maatta.
It would be miraculous if JR could bamboozle someone into taking JJ.

Letang is an interesting discussion. Must bring skill and skating PMD in return. Dunno.

 

[vikingGoalie]

I'm not sayin we can trade JJ for a bottom pairing D guy that is solid. I'm saying someone will take him for a 4th rounder or something. Hornqvist definitely we can get something back for.

I mean in all reality JJ is overpaid only slightly.
NHL Rankings

JJ is ranked 103rd on cap hit, 125ish is where cap wise the bottom third is, so straight math wise 2.5M is where the bottom 3rd salary cap wise is for vets, and plenty there that are arguably worse then JJ. My only point is that mathematically he's about 700K a year overpaid. I just can't believe no one wouldn't want him on their team for a low end prospect/pick. That said would JR be willing to trade him for that, that's where the real question lies.

As far as Hunwick goes, he was demonstrably worse then JJ and couldn't beat out AHL fodder on our team for a starting role. Problem is we were trading to Botts and he know that Hunwick was not good with first hand knowledge.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

It boggles my mind that the caps can insulate orpik but we can't insulate JJ. I feel like they are really similar in this stage of their careers

 

[JackFr]

It boggles my mind that the caps can insulate orpik but we can't insulate JJ. I feel like they are really similar in this stage of their careers

You would think, but JJ is just a whole extra level of dumb.

 

[Gurglesons]

@Honour Over Glory @ZeroPucksGiven @ColePens
@KIRK

For those defending JJ turning a leaf or looking good at some point this season..

Justin Schultz and Jack Johnson are a mess. Against the Islanders, in three games together, they were out-attempted 39-32 (45.07 percent), outshot 26-12 (31.58 percent), out-chanced 26-13 (33.33 percent) and outscored 3-0 (zero percent).

That’s in step with where they were in 29 games and more than 383 minutes together in the regular season; with them on the ice, the Penguins controlled 44.97 of all shot attempts, 44.97 of actual shots, 46.83 of all scoring chances and outscored opponents 16-11. That last number is pumped up by Matt Murray’s return to form. He gets the credit there.

The worst thing, well besides the results, about the bad stats is something Gentille doesn’t mention: usage. Jack Johnson had 72.7% offensive zone starts in the playoff games he played. Justin Schultz was basically identical at 71.4%.

Johnson, well, we all know his struggles. The Pens scored just 43.4% of the goals with Johnson on the ice in 2018-19. With Johnson on the bench if a goal was scored, 61.8% of the time it was the Pens scoring. The way the ice tilts negatively with Johnson on the ice is undeniable and unavoidable.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

@Honour Over Glory @ZeroPucksGiven @ColePens
@KIRK

For those defending JJ turning a leaf or looking good at some point this season..

Uh where does that disprove any of what I (or a handful of others) have stated?
On the whole, JJ's season with us stunk to high heaven, I mean look at my avatar.

But for a period of time that coincided with his move to his other side and for about a month, JJ was a passable dman.

The NHL season is what 6 months long? If you get 5 F's and 1 A your overall GPA and statistics are gonna be atrocious. Your statistics cited reflect that so I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

 

[Gurglesons]

Uh where does that disprove any of what I (or a handful of others) have stated?
On the whole, JJ's season with us stunk to high heaven, I mean look at my avatar.

But for a period of time that coincided with his move to his other side and for about a month, JJ was a passable dman.

The NHL season is what 6 months long? If you get 5 F's and 1 A your overall GPA and statistics are gonna be atrocious. Your statistics cited reflect that so I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

My statistics are reflecting when he was paired with Schultz. So when he was moved back to LD.

 

[KIRK]

@pixiesfanyo, you know what the difference is between one dog's crap and another dog's crap?

In the end . . . NOTHING. They both smell like crap.

If you want to tell me that one smells crappier, that kind of misses the bigger point, no?

 

[Gurglesons]

@pixiesfanyo, you know what the difference is between one dog's crap and another dog's crap?

In the end . . . NOTHING. They both smell like crap.

If you want to tell me that one smells crappier, that kind of misses the bigger point, no?

I just Cc’d you to be a dick and I vow to stop this incorrect narrative that JJ looked passable at some point in this season for more than a game or two.

 

[KIRK]

I just Cc’d you to be a dick and I vow to stop this incorrect narrative that JJ looked passable at some point in this season for more than a game or two.

Oh I know what you're doing . . .

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I just Cc’d you to be a dick and I vow to stop this incorrect narrative that JJ looked passable at some point in this season for more than a game or two.

You're the weirdest #1 fan of Jack Johnson I have ever seen.

I am awaiting your pie chart of the bar graph that displays the reasons why any of us give a shit.