The 1996-97 New York Rangers

[whcanuck]

I've always been fascinated with this team, this was Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier's last great year, their one and only season as teammates outside of Edmonton and their last legitimate shot at a Cup. It was Gretzky's first season on Broadway (still makes me sad as a Canucks fan that we had him and then messed up the negotiations and lost him to NYR), he was an absolute beast in the playoffs with two hat tricks. Would've been cool to see Detroit vs New York in the finals, two original six American teams like the old days. They had impressive series wins over Florida and New Jersey, the latter was the top seed in the East and New York handled them in 5 games. But Eric Lindros and co. ended the dream.

What do you guys remember about this Rangers team? What could they have done differently to beat Philly? Or were they just overmatched?

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[pbgoalie]

As a Ranger fan at the time, I remember thinking it was a passing the torch moment. Lindros was so much better than Messier, especiallybstronger and more menacing. Almost made Mess look small

 

[blood gin]

They were a very savvy team. Getting a little old but had a lot of skill and really turned it on in the playoffs after probably coasting a bit in the regular season. Richter was incredible in the playoffs and Gretzky turned back the clock. This was probably Messiers last year of being elite. The Devils had no clue how to get one past Richter and were befuddled by the crease rule.

It was the last real kick at the can for the remnants of the old Oilers gang.

Was shocked to see Messier leave the next year. And Vancouver was really the worst possible result for him. I thought Washington was in the running for his services as well?

 

[The Panther]

As a Ranger fan at the time, I remember thinking it was a passing the torch moment. Lindros was so much better than Messier, especiallybstronger and more menacing. Almost made Mess look small

Yes, I felt the same way. Anyone who thinks Lindros wasn't good in the playoffs must not have seen this series. Lindros almost single-handedly won the Conference championship. Looking back on it, it was definitely the moment when Messier passed from 'late-prime' to 'old'. He had also been banged up a bit during the latter regular season, but he still put up 84 points in 71 games, a 97-point pace (the stats show Mess had only 13 points in the first 17 games, then 33 in the next 22).

Rangers had a fun team that year, but a little slow/old in the upper-end of forwards. Gretzky had 51 points in the first 36 games before slowing down (but then he turned it on in the playoffs). Leetch had a great year and was still very much in his prime. Adam Graves had a good year with 33 goals. Nik Sundstrom, in his second season, had 52 points, a career high. Robitaille never quite looked like himself in New York, but he did put up a decent 24 goals in 69 games.

Tikkanen was a good pick-up for the playoff run, but it meant the top scorers in the post-season were 36, 32, 36, and 30 years old. That'll get you so far, but at some point the energy and speed is likely to be surpassed by a younger team, as the Rangers' was by Philly.

Still, a fun team.

 

[quoipourquoi]

That Game 4 was a heartbreaker. If they just hold on in those last few seconds... but you know, they were living on borrowed time those entire playoffs with the way Richter was playing. Still, having Messier and Gretzky together one last time in their 19th season as professionals - it was a treat.

I bought a Messier Starting Lineup figure the day of their only win against Philadelphia. I should have bought a Graves, Leetch, and Richter in the following days to keep it going. Some years, the superstition works, but you have to pick up the pattern early.

 

[McGarnagle]

That was the last great year for Gretzky and Messier, and Richter was on fire in the playoffs once again. They were playing great hockey to knock off New Jersey fairly easily, but that was just Lindros's year. He just steamrolled them in the ECF.

I still can't comprehend how that Flyers team couldn't even win a game against Detroit.

 

[c9777666]

As well as Mike Richter played that playoffs, as dodgy as Snow/Hextall were..... go figure the better goalie lost and the shaky tandem won.

 

[Talisman]

I was very exited back then when they acuired Tikkanen and Russ courtnall from canucks in TDL!!. Tikkanen played very good in playoffs but Courtnall was in the shadows what i remember!!. I remember also that Kovalev and Sundström were in the injury department durin the Philly series!!. Was there a lot of injuries in Rags team during the plsyoffs which little was a mess!!

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

That team was actually underwhelming during the regular season. If you remember the season before they actually were leading the Atlantic and East for most of the way until Messier got hurt late in the season. That team started out slow caught fire then played .500 for the rest of the way. Messier's season mirrored the team. He started slow caught fire then was slow the rest of the season. I remember at one point he had 32 goals by mid February but after a Saturday afternoon game on fox where he scored a hat trick vs the isles he was a shell of himself only scoring 4 goals the rest of the way. Around the same time Kovalev went down for the season.Those playoffs were great though I remember they weren't even projected to get by Florida and after game 1 they looked done. After that it really was the Messier and Gretzky show the rest of the way that series. Gretzky dominated games 2 and 4 Messier dominated game 5, and both turned it on in game 3. I remember after they won that series noone though they would beat the Devils and again it looked like they wouldn't after game 1. I remember Richter being a beast the rest of that series along with Grtezky and Leetch playing out of their minds as well Messier was held goalless though and despite a vicious hit on Gilmour in Game 2 this is where it started to look concerning as he always scored big goals vs the Devils in the playoffs. Despite all of this a young me was believing that hey they might win the cup again, I remember them being pretty good vs the Flyers that year during the regular season too even winning a home and home towards the end of the season. I remember them losing Game 1 vs the Flyers, but in Game 2 Gretzky scored at hat trick and Messier had a goal as well on top of that the d held kept Lindros quiet too. There was so much hope heading back to NY but that's where the wheels fell off. Lindros basically won game 3 by himself and Game 4 was a heart breaker. By that time the team was crawling with injuries Kovalev,Sundstrom, and Flatley were hurt, Karpotvsev had a death in the family as well. Leetch was playing with a broken wrist at the time and the team had so many injuries that Dallas Eakins a career defenseman was actually playing forward on the 4th line. Messier like I mentioned was showing his age and had a teweked back, he had also become disenchanted with team and upper management had become disenchanted as well with him as well, as they watched Gretzky dazzle every night while Messier wallowed and was outplayed by a bigger Lindros. Apparently during the ECF Kovalev had begun skating again and it was said he'd be ready for the finals if they got there. Reality is if they got by the Flyers, they wouldn't have beaten Detroit. They were a 3 line team by the end of the playoffs. IMO this team needed 2 more wingers and a dman to compete and win a cup. I remember them letting go of Verbeek in 96 was a big mistake IMO. The chemistry he had with Messier and Graves was amazing in 96. I also remember them being in the running for Shanahan that year with Kovalev going the other way to Hartford a Gretzky Shanahan tandem would have been lethal Shanahan could have probably scored 60 goals easy with Gretzky as his centerman. I remember in 95 also they were rumored to get Selanne but settled on Robitille and Samuelsson. Add Selanne to he aforementioned players and they probably finish top of the league that year. Those 90s teams should have won 2-3 cups instead of just the 1 in 94. You can thank Ron Francis for that as well as the moves that didn't get done. I remember that year being the last time it was great to be a RANGER fan for about 10 years. The following years were empty and stressful.

 

[blood gin]

I remember Richter being a beast the rest of that series along with Grtezky and Leetch playing out of their minds as well Messier was held goalless though and despite a vicious hit on Gilmour in Game 2 this is where it started to look concerning as he always scored big goals vs the Devils in the playoffs.

From what I can recall Gilmour was skating towards Messier but very slowly (he may have been going for a line change) Messier just steps a bit his left and then unloads this vicious two handed cross check right to his forehead. I think most Devils fans were expecting a suspension as Messier was a repeat offender many times over in attempting to severely injure others and was suspended for 5 and 10 game stretches before. But for whatever reason he was not given one. Later in the series John MacLean broke Niklas Sundstroms arm with a slash but wasn't suspended either. League may have used that as an even up

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

From what I can recall Gilmour was skating towards Messier but very slowly (he may have been going for a line change) Messier just steps a bit his left and then unloads this vicious two handed cross check right to his forehead. I think most Devils fans were expecting a suspension as Messier was a repeat offender many times over in attempting to severely injure others and was suspended for 5 and 10 game stretches before. But for whatever reason he was not given one. Later in the series John MacLean broke Niklas Sundstroms arm with a slash but wasn't suspended either. League may have used that as an even up

If you watch games from back then its crazy how much stuff players got away with. That year was the start of the DPE though, by the next year (98) the old flashy Oilers speed influenced guys were all but done.

 

[blood gin]

If you watch games from back then its crazy how much stuff players got away with. That year was the start of the DPE though, by the next year (98) the old flashy Oilers speed influenced guys were all but done.

well yea. It wasn't just him. Marchment, Claude Lemieux, Domi, Ulf Samuelsson all still kicking around and raising hell

 

[tony d]

Would have been nice to see Gretzky and Mess back in the Cup finals. It was not to be but it was still a great run for that team.

 

[blogofmike]

The injuries hurt them a lot by the Philadelphia series. Possibly the ghost of bad Neil Smith trades haunting them for their last serious run of the era. A lack of secondary scoring can hurt, and New York had 4 goals in 5 games when Gretzky didn't score or assist on the goal.

But I disagree with most people's opinions on Richter's play in 1997.

It was a very good run early, but his stats are boosted heavily by that NJ series. The Devils had a low voltage offense and it's not that Richter stopped the Devils from scoring big goals late in the game, it's that they kept putting their toe in the crease when they scored.

Richter then folded in the ECF and his .869 save percentage in the Philly series was both indicative of his play and unhelpful to his team.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

In a "Messier" biography I read the brief discussion of that series was that the Flyers ran "roughshod" over the Rangers.....The beginning of the playoffs went well enough though, as I believe Gretzky picked up a hat trick (his last in the playoffs) and Messier had a kick ass game in back-to-back games versus the Panthers.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Oh and really quick, Messier's nemesis Kevin Haller I believe had some killer goals vs the Rangers

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Oh and really quick, Messier's nemesis Kevin Haller I believe had some killer goals vs the Rangers

I think you're confusing 95 & 97, I believe Kevin Haller was in Hartford by then

 

[Jim MacDonald]

I think you're confusing 95 & 97, I believe Kevin Haller was in Hartford by then

I did reconsider this because you're right in that the Flyers put away the Rangers in 95 too....thank you *thumbs up*

 

[blood gin]

In a "Messier" biography I read the brief discussion of that series was that the Flyers ran "roughshod" over the Rangers.....The beginning of the playoffs went well enough though, as I believe Gretzky picked up a hat trick (his last in the playoffs) and Messier had a kick ass game in back-to-back games versus the Panthers.

Tikkanen was a huge pickup in 97 as well for them. It was really his last gasp as a scorer and he had two huge OT winners. One was a laser beam that hit the back bar where basically he was the only person on the ice (and in the arena) who knew the puck went in

 

[jghockey]

The Rangers couldn't have done anything differently.

The Flyers were younger, bigger, stronger, and healthier.

Philadelphia deserved to win that series.

 

[mrhockey193195]

In reality, the Rangers were mediocre most of that season and Gretz and Richter caught fire in the playoffs. That being said, I've always wondered what happens if the Rangers keep Messier and don't trade Robitaille for Stevens ( ). Maybe the collapse doesn't happen in that world (I'm convinced that Graves, Leetch, and Richter all would have kept their levels had Messier stuck around - they were mentally destroyed by his departure).

 

[jghockey]

But Rangers management really did s*** the bed when they exiled Messier. The team sucked for the

In reality, the Rangers were mediocre most of that season and Gretz and Richter caught fire in the playoffs. That being said, I've always wondered what happens if the Rangers keep Messier and don't trade Robitaille for Stevens help. Maybe the collapse doesn't happen in that world (I'm convinced that Graves, Leetch, and Richter all would have kept their levels had Messier stuck around - they were mentally destroyed by his departure).

Trading Robitaille to L.A. was a good move. He was underperforming while playing on Gretzky's line.

But management did s*** the bed when they exiled Messier. The team sucked for the next 7 seasons.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

In reality, the Rangers were mediocre most of that season and Gretz and Richter caught fire in the playoffs. That being said, I've always wondered what happens if the Rangers keep Messier and don't trade Robitaille for Stevens help. Maybe the collapse doesn't happen in that world (I'm convinced that Graves, Leetch, and Richter all would have kept their levels had Messier stuck around - they were mentally destroyed by his departure).

I agree but I don't know if they would have been more than a mid seed to bubble team. Management knew Mess was done, and his attitude late in that year made them know he wouldnt take a lesser role. My biggest what if is, what if they get Shanahan that year or the year before , and sign Sakic that summer, would have been contenders again. I still say if hat team kept Verbeek, and pulled the trigger on the Shanahan deal they could have won.

This would have been the line up,

Graves-Messier-Verbeek
Shanahan-Gretzky-Sundstrom
Robitille-Tikkanen-Courtnall
Flatley-Eastwood -Berg

Leetch-Beukeboom
Samuelsson-Karpovtsev
Driver-Lidster

Richter
Healy

Was shocked to see Messier leave the next year. And Vancouver was really the worst possible result for him. I thought Washington was in the running for his services as well?

Vancouver offered him a ton of money, much more than he should have gotten. He denied Washington because he didn't want to face the Rangers 6 times a year. The only other teams I heard who wanted him were the Islanders(could see him saying no for the same reasons as Washington), and Detroit where he would have had a much lesser role.

 

[jghockey]

I agree but I don't know if they would have been more than a mid seed to bubble team. Management knew Mess was done, and his attitude late in that year made them know he wouldnt take a lesser role. My biggest what if is, what if they get Shanahan that year or the year before , and sign Sakic that summer, would have been contenders again. I still say if hat team kept Verbeek, and pulled the trigger on the Shanahan deal they could have won.

This would have been the line up,

Graves-Messier-Verbeek
Shanahan-Gretzky-Sundstrom
Robitille-Tikkanen-Courtnall
Flatley-Eastwood -Berg

Leetch-Beukeboom
Samuelsson-Karpovtsev
Driver-Lidster

Richter
Healy



Vancouver offered him a ton of money, much more than he should have gotten. He denied Washington because he didn't want to face the Rangers 6 times a year. The only other teams I heard who wanted him were the Islanders(could see him saying no for the same reasons as Washington), and Detroit where he would have had a much lesser role.

Also, the Rangers lied about their offer. They said that they were going to offer $10 million for two years. But when Messier called Neil Smith to confirm it, Smith said that the offer was $4.6 million for one year.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Also, the Rangers lied about their offer. They said that they were going to offer $10 million for two years. But when Messier called Neil Smith to confirm it, Smith said that the offer was $4.6 million for one year.

He also was finally starting to look his age during those playoffs, and the prospect of getting Sakic was enticing. Unfortunately neither worked. I get the intangibles, but on the ice he was looking his age. I don't blame Smith for what he did and I'm a fan.