The 1992-93 Quebec Nordiques

Bear of Bad News

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The 1993-94 Wings weren't "The Wings" if you know what I mean.

True. But maybe they lose to the Belfour Hawks/Stars, and that team loses to the Nordiques in the SC Final.

There were a few years there where Dallas > Colorado > Detroit > Dallas, it seemed. Weird times.
 

tjcurrie

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Aug 4, 2010
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In 1994, the Wings lost to a team with Arturs Irbe in goal.

When I say that we don't know, I meant it.

That was 1994. Their goalies were rookie Chris Osgood and Bob Essensa. And the Nordiques were still the Nordiques. So that year is pointless.

Fast forward to 1995-96 when they were now the Avalanche and the Wings added Mike Vernon, Brendan Shanahan, Larry Murphy, etc - they were a dramatically different team. Obviously a championship caliber one.

So I'm saying it again. They weren't beating the Wings with Fiset or Thibeault.
 

Bear of Bad News

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Say it as many times as you'd like.

Would I favor them over the Wings? No. Would they have a puncher's chance? Absolutely.
 

TJT

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Was Hextall washed up?

In '93 he was only 29 years old.

Why did he spend just a year in Quebec?
 

Bear of Bad News

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Was Hextall washed up?

In '93 he was only 29 years old.

Why did he spend just a year in Quebec?

I'm a Hextall fan (I think that most goalies are :) ), so I'm a bit biased. He was relatively above average right up to the bitter end (his last season was dreadful).

One interesting thing:
https://www.hockeygoalies.org/bio/hextall.html

His variance in 1992-93 was a 1.15, which is significantly above average, and also the highest of his career (by far). If you look at his game-by-game records, that's evident as well (you see some spectacular performances countered by some dreadful nights). In the playoffs against Montreal, he matched Roy very well in the first four games, but fell off of the cliff in Game Five (five goals on 29 shots) and Game Six (five goals on 23 shots).

He also played the easiest schedule of his career (other than his last season) with an average opponent 0.15 goals below average. His schedule wasn't much easier than Fiset (-0.07) or Cloutier (-0.39), though.

Having said that, I don't remember the details with 100% clarity, but I believe that the trade to the Islanders was more a result of expansion draft machinations than anything else. (Other than draft picks), Mark Fitzpatrick was the return, and he was a Florida Panther four days later.
 

tjcurrie

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Say it as many times as you'd like.

Would I favor them over the Wings? No. Would they have a puncher's chance? Absolutely.

Well if you want go there where we see a goalie miraculously go from avg/slightly above avg and stand on his head in a playoff series and.....

Look buddy I have a crystal ball okay.
 

FrozenJagrt

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If Sakic, Forsberg and Sundin is on the same team then who moves to wing? Sundin? Sundin in his early years could fly quite a bit but the heavy center he became later wouldn't have worked on the wing. Him and Forsberg on the same line though, that's some hypothetical.

Why not move Forsberg to wing?
 

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If Sakic, Forsberg and Sundin is on the same team then who moves to wing? Sundin? Sundin in his early years could fly quite a bit but the heavy center he became later wouldn't have worked on the wing. Him and Forsberg on the same line though, that's some hypothetical.

During the World Cup of hockey Sundin played wing on Forsberg's line for a while.
 

Hobnobs

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Since Quebec wouldn't get Roy they would most likely have gone for another goalie. Maybe we would've been talking about Guy Hebert, Moog or Sean Burke instead of Roy in the '96 playoffs.

And as for Sundins postions, he could play at all forward positions (Leafs switched him around alot in the late 90s) and was practicing some defenseman positioning tho I dont think they ever used him as that.
 

TJT

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I'm a Hextall fan (I think that most goalies are :) ), so I'm a bit biased. He was relatively above average right up to the bitter end (his last season was dreadful).

One interesting thing:
https://www.hockeygoalies.org/bio/hextall.html

His variance in 1992-93 was a 1.15, which is significantly above average, and also the highest of his career (by far). If you look at his game-by-game records, that's evident as well (you see some spectacular performances countered by some dreadful nights). In the playoffs against Montreal, he matched Roy very well in the first four games, but fell off of the cliff in Game Five (five goals on 29 shots) and Game Six (five goals on 23 shots).

He also played the easiest schedule of his career (other than his last season) with an average opponent 0.15 goals below average. His schedule wasn't much easier than Fiset (-0.07) or Cloutier (-0.39), though.

Having said that, I don't remember the details with 100% clarity, but I believe that the trade to the Islanders was more a result of expansion draft machinations than anything else. (Other than draft picks), Mark Fitzpatrick was the return, and he was a Florida Panther four days later.

Thanks for the amazingly prompt and erudite response!

Hextall did seem to perform well in QC, it's too bad he was dealt so soon.

Fiset and Thibault were brought up earlier in the thread, but wouldn't Hextall have been superior to either? I think they could have won with him in the playoffs.

If losing Hextall had to do with dealing him or leaving him unprotected in an expansion draft, why was he the odd man out?

Were there culture/language issues in QC for hockey teams which would have pressured the team to keep their French-Canadian goalies on the team back then?

I know across the NHL the early 90s had a much higher rate of trades than now, but even then, it seems to me that QC management reveled in wheeling and dealing. They did pretty well with trades in general, but did they take enough time to evaluate their roster before making a move or were they impatient to become a contender, to prevent/delay relocation of the team? Or were their trades mainly due to things out of their control (e.g. Lindros)?
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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If losing Hextall had to do with dealing him or leaving him unprotected in an expansion draft, why was he the odd man out?... Were there culture/language issues in QC for hockey teams which would have pressured the team to keep their French-Canadian goalies on the team back then?

Of course. You answer your own question. Just a fact of life.
 

dennilfloss

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With what we know of him in retrospect, it would have been interesting for the Nords to get Dominik Hašek from Chicago during the summer of 1992 as the asking price was very reasonable. The 1992-1993 lineup (and subsequent years) with him in goal would have been quite a threat to contend. I dare say a major revival of the Battle Of Quebec with Roy in Montreal and Hašek in Québec. :yo:
 
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begbeee

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Forgot upgrades of Lemieux & Keane. What if Stastny stayed on a team instead of moving to NJ?
Would it be enough veteranship on a young roster?
 

kingdok

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Forgot upgrades of Lemieux & Keane. What if Stastny stayed on a team instead of moving to NJ?
Would it be enough veteranship on a young roster?

Considering Stastny's last full season (still only 62 games) was in 92-92, it doesn't make much of a difference.
 

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Even with an average or slightly above-average goalie and decent defense, I think the Nords could have scored their way to a Cup or two with this group of forwards....

Kamensky - Sakic - Nolan
Rucinsky - Forsberg - Sundin
Deadmarsh - Ricci - Kovalenko
Simon - Lapointe - Young

Looking through the videos of the 92-93 season, they were putting up 6 goals on many occasions (and this is without Forsberg and Deadmarsh on the scene)





 

Pat Paeplow

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Wait. Where does Patrick Roy end up if the Nordiques don't move to Denver? San Jose? How many cups is that?
 

tony d

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That forward group was downright scary. That said I don't think Roy would have went to Quebec from Montreal so maybe they win a cup with Fiset or Thibault but that's a big maybe.
 

Bear of Bad News

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Wait. Where does Patrick Roy end up if the Nordiques don't move to Denver? San Jose? How many cups is that?

Rumours had him possibly going to Detroit - so if we assume a similar return, that suggests that the Wings would have won even more than they actually did.
 

Psycho Papa Joe

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I think Thibault would have ended up being a much better goalie than he developed into, if he had stayed on the Nords/Av's. Going to Montreal and replacing a legend, and the pressure associated with that, broke the kid. He was a hell of a talent. With Fiset there, they could have brought thibault along more slowly as well.

If that didn't work, I sure they could have acquired an experienced guy like Belfour when he was on the outs in Chicago.
 
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TJT

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Rumours had him possibly going to Detroit - so if we assume a similar return, that suggests that the Wings would have won even more than they actually did.

Why would they have traded him to the team that shellacked them?

Also, I could see some resentment from Roy to his teammates considering how competitive he is.
 

The Pale King

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I know he's been brought up already, but Fiset was 22-6 with a save % just a hair under .900 in the 95-96 season prior to being usurped by Roy. He got a ring out of it still, but it's possible they could have gotten it done that year with Fiset as the starter. He got some much weaker LA teams into the playoffs over the next few years as well.
 

Bear of Bad News

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I know he's been brought up already, but Fiset was 22-6 with a save % just a hair under .900 in the 95-96 season prior to being usurped by Roy.

At the time of the trade, he was actually a smidge better: 13-3-2 with a 0.902 save percentage.

Even including Roy, Fiset actually played the toughest schedule of the three Avalanche goaltenders:

http://www.hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/colorado.html

I'm surprised that Roy had an average opponent a full 0.25 goals below average in 1995-96 (Fiset's was -0.09, Thibault's was -0.13). I haven't dug into it, but perhaps the Avs' early-season schedule was tougher than the rest of the year.
 

The Pale King

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Sep 24, 2011
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At the time of the trade, he was actually a smidge better: 13-3-2 with a 0.902 save percentage.

Even including Roy, Fiset actually played the toughest schedule of the three Avalanche goaltenders:

http://www.hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/colorado.html

I'm surprised that Roy had an average opponent a full 0.25 goals below average in 1995-96 (Fiset's was -0.09, Thibault's was -0.13). I haven't dug into it, but perhaps the Avs' early-season schedule was tougher than the rest of the year.

That's interesting. I haven't looked either, but you'd think there'd be some adjustment for everyone coming over from Quebec, in terms of new homes, a new environment. People give newly acquired players some leeway to get to know their teams, so I think there'd be a similar aspect of unfamiliarity, even if a lot of the guys were on the same on-ice team the year before.

And don't forget the altitude difference!
 

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