Prospect Info: Thatcher Demko

[F A N]

Roy, hasek was great in early 30s. So was brodeur.

A more recent example is anderson in sens. Yeah

Outlier - Wikipedia

I think it's quite common for goalies to maintain their play into their early 30s with a measured decline into their mid 30s. That's why you do see top 10-15 calibre goalies play close to their usual level into their early 30s and then play at a 1B level into their mid 30s. I'm talking about proven guys and health permitting.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think it's quite common for goalies to maintain their play into their early 30s with a measured decline into their mid 30s. That's why you do see top 10-15 calibre goalies play close to their usual level into their early 30s and then play at a 1B level into their mid 30s. I'm talking about proven guys and health permitting.

Let’s focus on the current crop of nhl goalies in their mid 30’s.

Older goalies in their late 30’s (37 and so) are Lundqvist, Rinne, Smith.

Guys in around 33-35 are Quick, Schneider, Howard, Bishop, MAF, Dubnyk, Crawford.

How are these guys holding up.

 

[MS]

A lot of goalies seemed to play longer in the late 1990s and early 2000s which is where this 'goalies play longer' thing came from but in the last 10 years it's pretty consistent that most goalies suffer a significant dropoff around age 32-34. Great goalies become average, average goalies become bad. Obviously there are a couple elite guys who have played deep into their 30s but for the bulk of guys they're done by 35.

Pekka Rinne was the only goalie 35 or older last year who played 35+ games with a .910+ save %.

 

[F A N]

Let’s focus on the current crop of nhl goalies in their mid 30’s.

Older goalies in their late 30’s (37 and so) are Lundqvist, Rinne, Smith.

Guys in around 33-35 are Quick, Schneider, Howard, Bishop, MAF, Dubnyk, Crawford.

How are these guys holding up.

Not sure what your position is here SH, but I would say Lundqvist and Rinne aged as well as anyone can realistically hope. I think Smith fits into the category of what I was describing. He was still good in through his early 30s and now in his mid 30s he's still a good 1B option.

As for the younger guys you listed, I think injuries has a lot to do with Quick and Schneider's decline in performance from their primes. Quick was coming off a great season in 2017-2018 but was basically injured from the start including getting knee surgery. Hasn't been the same. Howard's decline in his 30s seem to close to Smith's. Bishop is aging fine. MAF is aging well. He turns 35 in a month. Dubnyk has been fine so far. Too early to tell this year. Crawford has also been injury plagued but I can put him in the Miller and Howard category.

Anyhow, I think it's fair to say that all of those guys you mentioned (absent Schneider) arguably were legitimate #1 goalies into their early 30s and at least 1B quality into their mid 30s. So I don't think it's an outlier.

 

[Star Ocean]

Let’s focus on the current crop of nhl goalies in their mid 30’s.

Older goalies in their late 30’s (37 and so) are Lundqvist, Rinne, Smith.

Guys in around 33-35 are Quick, Schneider, Howard, Bishop, MAF, Dubnyk, Crawford.

How are these guys holding up.

Early 30s is not 33-35 (thats more to mid)

Markstrom is 29, and he could still have another four years at his top.

Not sure why people are eager to think that demko is ready to take over markstrom in the next 3 years or so.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

My worry is Green won't play Demko enough this year if his job is on the line. Demko needs starts this year to see if he is ready for a starter's role before we lose Markstrom to Seattle. Markstrom may even want to sign somewhere else this summer if another team outbids us and/or they don't have to expose him in the expansion draft.

 

[MikeK]

My worry is Green won't play Demko enough this year if his job is on the line. Demko needs starts this year to see if he is ready for a starter's role before we lose Markstrom to Seattle. Markstrom may even want to sign somewhere else this summer if another team outbids us and/or they don't have to expose him in the expansion draft.

He definitely need his share of games. He hasn't played much the last 2 years and sooner or later that's going to catch up to him in a negative way if the lack of playing continues. Having said that though, Demko needs to seize the opportunities when they arrive and he needs to show he's an NHL goalie who can handle games. The goalie is probably the most important position in the game and not one a team can gamble on. If Demko doesn't step up and shine when given his moments than I really can't blame the team for riding Markstrom.

 

[VanJack]

Marky is off to a strong start, but I really hope Demko gets more games this year than some pundits are predicting. The one element of Demko's game that is clearly superior to Markstrom's, is puck-handling. Demko is just tremendously skilled in setting up pucks for his d-men and moving it to an open man. At times, it's almost like having a third d-man back there.

One thing I've noticed through three games, is that the Canucks are still vulnerable to an aggressive forecheck, and still give up quality chances when a team starts cycling the puck.

I really think Demko has the potential to make the zone exits easier and a little more consistent.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Obviously there are a couple elite guys who have played deep into their 30s but for the bulk of guys they're done by 35.

Pekka Rinne was the only goalie 35 or older last year who played 35+ games with a .910+ save %.

This was an anomaly, and you seem to be cherrypicking the cutoffs. In both 2017-2018 and 2016-2017 there were 3 goaltenders that fit this description and in 2016-2017 there were also 4 34-year-old goaltenders who played 35+ games with a .910 or better save %.

 

[MS]

This was an anomaly, and you seem to be cherrypicking the cutoffs. In both 2017-2018 and 2016-2017 there were 3 goaltenders that fit this description and in 2016-2017 there were also 4 34-year-old goaltenders who played 35+ games with a .910 or better save %.

A whopping 3 guys the previous two years isn't exactly overwhelming.

It's basically been Luongo/Lundqvist/Rinne - three guys probably going to the HHOF - until the first two guys fell off last year.

Very few goalies perform at a high level past age 35, and those that do are normally HHOF types.

 

[StreetHawk]

Marky is off to a strong start, but I really hope Demko gets more games this year than some pundits are predicting. The one element of Demko's game that is clearly superior to Markstrom's, is puck-handling. Demko is just tremendously skilled in setting up pucks for his d-men and moving it to an open man. At times, it's almost like having a third d-man back there.

One thing I've noticed through three games, is that the Canucks are still vulnerable to an aggressive forecheck, and still give up quality chances when a team starts cycling the puck.

I really think Demko has the potential to make the zone exits easier and a little more consistent.

Markstrom has 60 appearances in each of the past 2 seasons. Pretty much all starts save a game or two. But, both seasons the backup was out of action for 4-6 weeks giving him an extra 4 starts or so. So if started 58/59 games and adjusting for injury overwork he would have been starting 55 games the past 2 seasons. Which is 2/3 games. Leaving backup about 27 starts.

that would be how I’d like the split to go if both play well. Few games to start so Markstrom is fresh. But wouldn’t want Demko to go stale sitting for almost 3 weeks.

i suspect based on the October schedule he’ll get 3 games this month. Picks up in November so see from there.

as for goalies aging, only the best last to around 35 without injuries. Markstrom needs a new deal at age 30 and he should be asking for 5/6 years taking him to 35/36.

cant be wrong with a goalie contract. Can’t hide them like a forward or Dman.

 

[mossey3535]

Well, Demko needs to play soon and he needs to be on a fairly set schedule since that is best for his development....

 

[Hit the post]

Markstrom has 60 appearances in each of the past 2 seasons. Pretty much all starts save a game or two. But, both seasons the backup was out of action for 4-6 weeks giving him an extra 4 starts or so. So if started 58/59 games and adjusting for injury overwork he would have been starting 55 games the past 2 seasons. Which is 2/3 games. Leaving backup about 27 starts.

that would be how I’d like the split to go if both play well. Few games to start so Markstrom is fresh. But wouldn’t want Demko to go stale sitting for almost 3 weeks.

i suspect based on the October schedule he’ll get 3 games this month. Picks up in November so see from there.

as for goalies aging, only the best last to around 35 without injuries. Markstrom needs a new deal at age 30 and he should be asking for 5/6 years taking him to 35/36.

cant be wrong with a goalie contract. Can’t hide them like a forward or Dman.

Not with that $6 million albatross on wing.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I think it's worth holding onto both for the next 2-3 years minimum and let them compete for the starting position and pump up their value. I know the expansion draft is coming, so maybe we could make a deal with Seattle that would make sense where we can hold onto both - the logic being that the return we get from Markstrom will be greater than what we give up to Seattle to make it work. Ideally we re-sign Markstrom to a 3-4 year contract and dump him in his last year or two for a late 1st or something along those lines if Demko looks ready.

And as mentioned above, goalies that decline in their mid 30s are usually from injuries, when you can IR their cap anyways.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think it's worth holding onto both for the next 2-3 years minimum and let them compete for the starting position and pump up their value. I know the expansion draft is coming, so maybe we could make a deal with Seattle that would make sense where we can hold onto both - the logic being that the return we get from Markstrom will be greater than what we give up to Seattle to make it work. Ideally we re-sign Markstrom to a 3-4 year contract and dump him in his last year or two for a late 1st or something along those lines if Demko looks ready.

And as mentioned above, goalies that decline in their mid 30s are usually from injuries, when you can IR their cap anyways.

Canucks don’t have anything upfront or D that they risk losing.
Bo, Petey, Brock, Miller, Gaudette appears to be the 5 forwards you can put in zone to protect.
Defense with Quinn exempt, and Edler and Benn ufa, you are choosing right now between 3 of Stecher, Myers, Tanev if you extend him, and all of the guys in the AHL like Juolevi, Brisebois, Chatfield, etc.

I don’t see anything that would be that enticing to Seattle at the moment. Things can change in 2 seasons.
Unless you’re parting with a Dipietro who will have 2 AHL years under his belt so that seattle lays off a 32 year old goalie. But you risk giving a division rival potentially their goalie of the future.

 

[Fire Benning]

They should've never extended Markstrom anyway but Demko playing the way he has ought to make you much more comfortable of him being the team's starter next season.

 

[EpochLink]

Demko is playing great.

 

[Star Ocean]

They should've never extended Markstrom anyway but Demko playing the way he has ought to make you much more comfortable of him being the team's starter next season.

What do people have against markstrom here?! You want to roll with mactirefire as backup next season?

 

[VanJack]

Demko wasn't drafted to be a backup....he's a legit No. 1. Not sure what happens to Markstrom.....possibility he could be lost in the expansion draft to Seattle, since at least one goalie has to be exposed.

And so far DiPietro off to a strong start in the AHL.....so I'm not concerned.

 

[Fire Benning]

What do people have against markstrom here?! You want to roll with mactirefire as backup next season?

I don’t have anything against him, he’s great and should’ve been team MVP last season. Extending a 30 year old goalie with term for big dollars would be absolutely idiotic.

 

[Spectrefire]

I don’t have anything against him, he’s great and should’ve been team MVP last season. Extending a 30 year old goalie with term for big dollars would be absolutely idiotic.

Promising to eat your dick and then chickening out is also absolutely idiotic, but those things never seemed to stop you.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I don’t have anything against him, he’s great and should’ve been team MVP last season. Extending a 30 year old goalie with term for big dollars would be absolutely idiotic.

He wasn't talking about a proposed future extension. He was asking why you think he shouldn't have been signed to his current contract.

 

[Fire Benning]

He wasn't talking about a proposed future extension. He was asking why you think he shouldn't have been signed to his current contract.

Didn’t seem like it.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Didn’t seem like it.

My mistake. Incidentally, why don't you think he should have been resigned?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Demko wasn't drafted to be a backup....he's a legit No. 1. Not sure what happens to Markstrom.....possibility he could be lost in the expansion draft to Seattle, since at least one goalie has to be exposed.

And so far DiPietro off to a strong start in the AHL.....so I'm not concerned.

In guessing we lose Markström as an UFA.