Thanks to Chevy

[KingBogo]

In fairness to res, at least he's still a Jets fan...

I remember Arby. Man was he wrong

 

[White Out 902]

Back to back GIF responses doesn't make you right. More so makes you look out of answers. And besides this is a Thank You Chevy thread. No one makes you hang around if you don't agree.

I mean, I literally posted that I was sorry for derailing, and didn't want to keep arguing about Chevy. So instead he keeps trying to drag me back into a debate about it. I guess the other direction is to place him on ignore?

In fairness to res, at least he's still a Jets fan...

Born a Jets fan, will die a Jets fan. Period.

 

[scelaton]

I mean, I literally posted that I was sorry for derailing, and didn't want to keep arguing about Chevy. So instead he keeps trying to drag me back into a debate about it. I guess the other direction is to place him on ignore?

You have young children, right?
What would you tell them if they were senselessly bickering with each other over trivialities, each blaming the other for starting it?

 

[KingBogo]

I mean, I literally posted that I was sorry for derailing, and didn't want to keep arguing about Chevy. So instead he keeps trying to drag me back into a debate about it. I guess the other direction is to place him on ignore?



Born a Jets fan, will die a Jets fan. Period.

You can also ignore a whole thread if the topic doesn't suit you. It just blinks out of existence. We are not going to all agree on everything sometimes you just need to walk away, especially thank you and appreciation threads you disagree with.

 

[White Out 902]

You have young children, right?
What would you tell them if they were senselessly bickering with each other over trivialities, each blaming the other for starting it?

Not sure yet, my son is 2.5 and my daughter only 6 months.

 

[The Blue Baron]

And a noose .

Don’t forget thick rimmed glasses to cover the eye bags or Reinbolds

 

[cbcwpg]

Jets' Cheveldayoff in running for GM of the year

Kevin Cheveldayoff joins Vegas Golden Knights GM George McPhee and Tampa Bay Lightning counterpart Steve Yzerman in the category. The winner will be announced at the NHL awards June 20 in Vegas.

***

Nice to be nominated but this award is going to McPhee.

 

[Whileee]

I don't think your qualified to diagnose me as having that particularly bias. Even so, at this point we are at a stand off:

A large chunk of the people defending Chevy we're indeed saying the results don't matter there is some future unknown success coming. The best example of how misguided this was when we made the playoffs and were swept by Anaheim. Going into that series there was literally a thank you chevy post that read just like this. Then afterwards when missed the playoffs again for 2 years suddenly we we're once again knee deep in a process. The thing about outcome bias is it allows you to just write off all previous failures as being part of the design. But we know that Chevy was making all sorts of strange offers and decisions that just didn't jive with the narrative. I won't rehash them all but Andrew Ladd is a great example. I view our success as a product of amateur scouting, Chevy not being able to hamstring the team with bad deals like Ladd despite trying, and some good fortune. The Kane trade being forced by the locker room incident for example. Laine's lottery ball.

If Chia in Edmonton can be considered a total buffoon today in Edmonton having previously GM'd a team to a Stanley Cup, sure people must be willing to admit that this team would be where it is with almost any other GM who just stood pat and let his scouts build. If you can't even meet me there you aren't being a serious person (that comment is directed towards anyone not you specifically)



And there it is; the "I'm a better fan than you because I was also super positive" gambit. You aren't. And you aren't enjoying it more than me because you're a big chevy supporter. I'm truly sorry to burst your bubble on that. I imagine that you must think I'm curled up on my couch gritting my teeth with each Jets win. When in reality, and probably to your dismay I enjoy the wins as much or maybe even more than you.

I won't speak for others, but I think you are misrepresenting views that I held, as someone who supported Chevy's overall strategy, and most of his moves. Immediately after the 2014/15 series I said that the Jets lacked talent, especially in term of playing quickly. I advocated a step back with a youth movement, which is exactly what the Jets did. Many of Chevy's harshest critics railed at him for not building around that earlier core, which I think was fundamentally flawed and incapable of being a true contender. In that regard, I clearly stated that I didn't think that the process was completed, so this narrative you are weaving above is false on its face. If you and others couldn't see how Chevy was building up the roster and organizational depth through a process of draft and develop, then that's your issue. Those of us who did project success are now happy to see a 114 point team, that is young and deep and now a true Cup contender.

Your bit about "outcome bias" is nonsense for many of us. This discussion board has been full of specific discussions about Chevy's strategy and implementation, with plenty of attention to the timelines and gaps in the process. To simply say that those of us who have been supportive of the general process had no reasons for endorsing the process deliberately ignores the chapter and verse of previous discussions about the progress.

The old narratives about Chevy being "lucky", or never making a trade, are getting tired. He's made some outstanding and important deals, not the least of which was maneuvering a very vulnerable roster around the expansion draft. While many of the other GMs stocked Vegas with good talent, the Jets gave them Thorbs, and all they had to do was swap Vesalainen for Suzuki. But you probably think that was "luck".

Now, let me ask you a question. Do you really think that Chevy has been ineffective in putting together the Jets' roster and organizational depth?

 

[White Out 902]

[..............]
Now, let me ask you a question. Do you really think that Chevy has been ineffective in putting together the Jets' roster and organizational depth?

In case you didn't see before, I am trying to gracefully exit this thread while the playoffs are going on, at least. I have my views and you hold yours, and, that's great. Let's enjoy the ride and not get bogged down with internal fighting during such an exciting post season.

Have a good one.

 

[Whileee]

In case you didn't see before, I am trying to gracefully exit this thread while the playoffs are going on, at least. I have my views and you hold yours, and, that's great. Let's enjoy the ride and not get bogged down with internal fighting during such an exciting post season.

Have a good one.

Cheers.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Disdain?

Nope just calling out some that showed an absurd level of disdain towards our GM while he was building this masterpiece.

To be honest, it is more of a perplexed feeling i have with those that thought Chevy was a bad GM, thought he was running this into the ground. Its like, how did you not understand what he was building years ago, can you not see the increase in talent?

I dont think you have to be an NHL insider to understand Chevy was increasing the talent and skill level evey year since he took over this team. Wins are the last thing to come, but some people cant see through that , can only measure by it.

Many people, including myself have owned their piece of humble pie.
Chevy hasn’t been perfect but yes look where we are finally.
The team actually exceeded most expectations this year.
Funny what a solid goaltending will do.
Not many predicted Hellebuyck having such a great year, likely Chevy included.
My guess is Mason was going to be the #1 until the numerous injuries to Mason and Helle’s phenomenal play changed that.
I heard Chevy was one of the nominees for GM of the year, well deserved this year.
I was among many who also thought the extension to Maurice was premature as well.
It’s ok to be critical as a fan, it’s the emotional part of what makes this place fun.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I won't speak for others, but I think you are misrepresenting views that I held, as someone who supported Chevy's overall strategy, and most of his moves. Immediately after the 2014/15 series I said that the Jets lacked talent, especially in term of playing quickly. I advocated a step back with a youth movement, which is exactly what the Jets did. Many of Chevy's harshest critics railed at him for not building around that earlier core, which I think was fundamentally flawed and incapable of being a true contender. In that regard, I clearly stated that I didn't think that the process was completed, so this narrative you are weaving above is false on its face. If you and others couldn't see how Chevy was building up the roster and organizational depth through a process of draft and develop, then that's your issue. Those of us who did project success are now happy to see a 114 point team, that is young and deep and now a true Cup contender.
Your bit about "outcome bias" is nonsense for many of us. This discussion board has been full of specific discussions about Chevy's strategy and implementation, with plenty of attention to the timelines and gaps in the process. To simply say that those of us who have been supportive of the general process had no reasons for endorsing the process deliberately ignores the chapter and verse of previous discussions about the progress.
The old narratives about Chevy being "lucky", or never making a trade, are getting tired. He's made some outstanding and important deals, not the least of which was maneuvering a very vulnerable roster around the expansion draft. While many of the other GMs stocked Vegas with good talent, the Jets gave them Thorbs, and all they had to do was swap Vesalainen for Suzuki. But you probably think that was "luck".
Now, let me ask you a question. Do you really think that Chevy has been ineffective in putting together the Jets' roster and organizational depth?

Excellent Post Whileee!

I find any negativity these days, pertaining to Chevy, is just mindless hating, based off of archaic examples of meaningless actions that have absolutely ZERO effect on this team today.

If your only evidence that Chevy is not a very good GM, is the signing of Pavelec, Thorbs and Stuart, you got nothing.

If your next resort is to paint his successes as mindless luck; or things that would happen regardless of Chevy being the GM, like drafting Scheif / Connor / Ehlers /Morrissey /Trouba /Roslovic /Lowry/ Helly, you got nothing.

Resigning Buff over Ladd, you got nothing.

If you are bringing these examples to the table, you bringing a butter knife to a machine gun fight, its laughable at best.

It’s actually mind bending to think that there are still some trying to pawn off moves from several seasons ago, as irrefutable evidence of Chevy being a bad GM, that regardless of the major success today.

I can say emphatically, that if Chevy was not our GM for the past several seasons, we would not be anywhere close to the team we are today. We are lucky to have him, and will win a cup because of him, one day soon.
-

 

[cbcwpg]

GM of the Year down to conference finalist trio of Cheveldayoff, McPhee and Yzerman | The Hockey News

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Excellent Post Whileee!

I find any negativity these days, pertaining to Chevy, is just mindless hating, based off of archaic examples of meaningless actions that have absolutely ZERO effect on this team today.

If your only evidence that Chevy is not a very good GM, is the signing of Pavelec, Thorbs and Stuart, you got nothing.

If your next resort is to paint his successes as mindless luck; or things that would happen regardless of Chevy being the GM, like drafting Scheif / Connor / Ehlers /Morrissey /Trouba /Roslovic /Lowry/ Helly, you got nothing.

Resigning Buff over Ladd, you got nothing.

If you are bringing these examples to the table, you bringing a butter knife to a machine gun fight, its laughable at best.

It’s actually mind bending to think that there are still some trying to pawn off moves from several seasons ago, as irrefutable evidence of Chevy being a bad GM, that regardless of the major success today.

I can say emphatically, that if Chevy was not our GM for the past several seasons, we would not be anywhere close to the team we are today. We are lucky to have him, and will win a cup because of him, one day soon.
-

Are you trying to make a rational argument on any of the points? If so, it is not coming through.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Are you trying to make a rational argument on any of the points? If so, it is not coming through.

Much like your posts on Chevy, this makes no sense.
Argument?
Whose points was I arguing against?

 

[ICdave]

He spoke today in Vegas.

GM Kevin Cheveldayoff scrum topics: Can he put into words why he thinks he was nominated as a finalist for GM of the Year? Willingness to take a step back after making playoffs to build team towards Stanley Cup contender. Of all his accomplishments was the drafting of Mark Scheifele one of the top ones? How would he describe the steps Connor Hellebuyck has taken this year? Has he ever had to sell Mark Chipman on his vision or have they always been on the same page? What else has he learned about Paul Maurice?

To listen click here.

 

[Whileee]

Interesting comments from Maurice in the WFP today. He said that Chevy told him that the Jets were going to get very young very quickly in the next few years, and he wanted Maurice to help assess which vets to keep.

They moved Bogo and Kane first, followed by Ladd, and eventually Stuart and Thorbs. My guess is that Thorbs and Stuart were kept specifically to generate a good culture on the team, and Bogo and Kane were moved out for the opposite reasons.

 

[Ducky10]

Interesting comments from Maurice in the WFP today. He said that Chevy told him that the Jets were going to get very young very quickly in the next few years, and he wanted Maurice to help assess which vets to keep.

They moved Bogo and Kane first, followed by Ladd, and eventually Stuart and Thorbs. My guess is that Thorbs and Stuart were kept specifically to generate a good culture on the team, and Bogo and Kane were moved out for the opposite reasons.

Careful way out on that limb.....

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

The parameters for assessing Exec of the year, seems to heavily weigh on acquisition, net new players added during the offseason upto the trade deadline; in relation to an increase in overall performance by the team.

This does not account for draft and developed players. Their maturation rarely occurs in synchronization, its a progression that builds to an increase in team performance.

It should be about the build, and if a GM builds through the draft, free agency or trades, one should not be valued over the other.

With that said, this award is going to McPhee. Its not normal circumstances, building an entire team in one night, but he seemingly knocked it out of the park. I guess we wont know the difficulty involved, until Seattle goes through the same exercise, if they achieve similar results.

 

[Whileee]

Careful way out on that limb.....

Well they weren't kept solely for their effectiveness at hockey, it turns out. When the Jets were ready to compete they bought out Stuart and shoved Thorbs on Vegas. That suggests that management and coaches knew they weren't good enough for a contending roster.

 

[Ducky10]

Well they weren't kept solely for their effectiveness at hockey, it turns out. When the Jets were ready to compete they bought out Stuart and shoved Thorbs on Vegas. That suggests that management and coaches knew they weren't good enough for a contending roster.

I was joking about the obviousness of the bolded. That's why I put not one but two smiley guys.

 

[surixon]

Well they weren't kept solely for their effectiveness at hockey, it turns out. When the Jets were ready to compete they bought out Stuart and shoved Thorbs on Vegas. That suggests that management and coaches knew they weren't good enough for a contending roster.

But, but Hendricks

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The parameter for assessing Exec of the year obviously heavily weigh on the performance of the teams in the standings. As they should. That is the appropriate measure for a GM. We have been lagging, but this year we leapfrogged forward.

 

[Say What]

I don't think your qualified to diagnose me as having that particularly bias. Even so, at this point we are at a stand off:

A large chunk of the people defending Chevy we're indeed saying the results don't matter there is some future unknown success coming. The best example of how misguided this was when we made the playoffs and were swept by Anaheim. Going into that series there was literally a thank you chevy post that read just like this. Then afterwards when missed the playoffs again for 2 years suddenly we we're once again knee deep in a process. The thing about outcome bias is it allows you to just write off all previous failures as being part of the design. But we know that Chevy was making all sorts of strange offers and decisions that just didn't jive with the narrative. I won't rehash them all but Andrew Ladd is a great example. I view our success as a product of amateur scouting, Chevy not being able to hamstring the team with bad deals like Ladd despite trying, and some good fortune. The Kane trade being forced by the locker room incident for example. Laine's lottery ball.

If Chia in Edmonton can be considered a total buffoon today in Edmonton having previously GM'd a team to a Stanley Cup, sure people must be willing to admit that this team would be where it is with almost any other GM who just stood pat and let his scouts build. If you can't even meet me there you aren't being a serious person (that comment is directed towards anyone not you specifically)



And there it is; the "I'm a better fan than you because I was also super positive" gambit. You aren't. And you aren't enjoying it more than me because you're a big chevy supporter. I'm truly sorry to burst your bubble on that. I imagine that you must think I'm curled up on my couch gritting my teeth with each Jets win. When in reality, and probably to your dismay I enjoy the wins as much or maybe even more than you.

Reading your views on management issues was enlightening, especially the bolded type diatribe. However...

All GM's experience fortunate situations ('lucky' situations, as you previously termed them) that occasionally present themselves. But you still must execute the 'actions' to reap those good fortunes. Saying otherwise is simply a way to assuage one's own narrative (to pretend that those moves can/would be made by 'any' NHL GM).

I vaguely remember Jim (Nill) being touted as a much better, more qualified GM than a certain local GM (probably not you specifically that claimed this)....what round was Dallas eliminated in during the 2018 Stanley Cup Playoffs (rhetorical). And to be clear, it's certainly not a knock at that Organization, or any of the many other professionally run organizations. The point is more direct, and quite simple. For 'some' to come to a thread and claim: luck, good fortune, dumb luck, 'locker room' made the trade, offers were turned down-saving the GM from himself, lottery balls -but one function of a system in the NHL as a League; the same mechanism that produced a similar situation unfolding in 2007-moving from 5th to 1st, etc. etc. is disingenuous.
Are you actually criticizing the Organization for benefitting from advantageous and/or unusual situations? Let me ask you this.....do you at least give the GM credit for not opening the 'cabin' on the usual scheduled date ("if you can't even meet me there you aren't being a serious person")?

While some will look at the team through a microscope (analysing and misrepresenting the minutia), essentially twisting the facts of reality; others must see it through binoculars (assessing the direction needed to achieve the overall goal). In the ultra-competitive environment of professional hockey, there are never any guarantees, and more so, even less certainty. To each their own. Cheers

 

[kelsier]

While I've never been a fan of Maurice, I do hold Chevy in a high regard. He has built an amazing franchise and is the biggest single contributor to where the organization is now. Deserves every bit of credit and then some. While he isn't winning the award, this is a nice gesture regardless.