Thanks for Everything, Sully

Then Sullivan is gone.

We fired Bylsma and ended up with a dud in Johnston, but it was the start of getting us on the right path.

 

pretty much?!?!

 

- made the playoffs, but went out with a whimper against the Caps
- missed
- dispatched by the Pens in the first round
- fired midseason

Meanwhile, Flyers fans did nothing but ridicule him most of those four seasons.

 

I forgot they played Caps in play offs, he just seemed so dull...

 

it's a no brainer hire if Sullivan goes. Gallant is the guy we need.

 

The fate of the coaching staff is even more intriguing now with the presence of Burke. Maybe I'm overstating his voice, but he's known for wanting his teams to play a certain way. Barring a deep run in the playoffs (which doesn't look good right now), Sullivan is gone IMO.

Remember, he had no issue with moving on from Babcock, who had just overseen that Cinderella run with the Ducks.

 

I think you meant to say Sully was an NHL caliber coach...

 

Yup, which means Sullivan is coaching to placate and not to squeeze the best possible results out of the roster. It’s very unlikely they win without somebody willing to tell Malkin to shut up and play, force Sid and Hornqvist together and tell Kessel to play on the third line. They need that kind of buy-in or they won’t win.

Don’t get me wrong, I think this roster has flaws that need to be patched and ideally Guentzel does play with Sid, but you just gotta be more creative with the lines if you’re Sully.

 

He probably still is for someone else. I don't think he can coach this squad anymore, and I certainly don't think he should be lauded the way this board did a few years ago. But I think he's still an NHL coach because to say otherwise is just f***ing dumb.

 

Haha you might be right, but I would expect him to follow the Bylsma career path once fired from the Pens - get one more coaching job before having to be an assistant for a half decade.

I wish him the best, just not here. I’m not sure how Hextall and Burke can possibly be thinking keeping Sullivan is smart. I guess their hands are tied, but how many more games do they need to see Sully’s squad play uninterested hockey?

I watched Vegas vs. Colorado last night. These other teams just look so much better than the Pens.

 

Maybe, but Sully's already bounced around the league a bunch, which means he's got more longevity than Bylsma did as is. God, is the Jack Adams ever a trash award!

I don't think Sully's Scotty Bowman, but I think he'll easily get another offer from a team on the verge of contending that needs more structure and X's and O's, preferably one without a massive competing voice in the locker room.

That doesn't mean we should hold on to him at all, because it's clear that he's stuck in a rut and can't grab the room's attention anymore. But I think he's a much better coach than the Olczyks and Bylsmas of the league.

 

I mean I agree that he isn’t going to really rock the boat. He’s not going to push the issue with Sid and I definitely think Sully needs to go. I’m just saying he probably wants to do some kind of wing swap like we all do, it’s just that he has to cater to Sid as well

 

He does not have to cater to Sid...that’s laughable...he’s the coach...put together f**king lines that have a chance of getting the best out of your top six forwards because you know the bottom six isn’t going to get it done with any regularity...and that includes the Dmen you’re playing behind the top two lines...if you can’t do that and command respect doing that, then you have no business being behind the bench...

 

This has been the case for years now.

It's nothing new. This team has been going down the wrong way street without correcting the issue for wayyyyy too long.... well the consequence of that decision has come home to roost.

Just pick a game.... almost any game.... it'll be more fun to watch than the penguins. Not because you can enjoy a game your not invested in, but because the game is being played soundly. (But beware who you do watch... there are a handful of truly awful teams)

 

Every coach besides maybe Therrein has catered to Sid when it comes to linemates

 

Watching the Pens games these days are worse than when MJ coached the team and I really mean that. It's clear the coach has no handle, the top star is dictating his line and that one thing is actually a detriment to the rest of the line up and the coach won't try anything else to even see if that could work but he's resting on his laurels of the 3rd line and Jake and Rust producing as a duo.

 

Sullivan has never really cared about making Malkin's line a priority. I'm not saying he's always been wrong in that, but it's hard to imagine any other superstar coming back from injury like Malkin did in 2016 and being told to make do on a third line. Certainly, that has and will never happen to Crosby. Malkin becomes a priority when Crosby is out. It was like that under Bylsma and now under Sullivan. It's always been a mistake and a waste of Malkin's 1B talent. Therrien got that and Bylsma just rode the train to his only Cup.

Sullivan started in a promising way and he was a huge part of the victories. This 87 and 71 era has been outstanding and I don't want to lose sight of that. What we're discussing are very much first world problems. But he's made the mistake of so many coaches before him and fallen in love with third and fourth liners, and he's letting Crosby dictate. When you let a player dictate you're not the coach anymore. And as much as I love Crosby he isn't always right, and what he wants has not always been best for the team. Does anybody remember how toxic it was before Sullivan got here?

We can't piss away another season on BART and the Crosby show.

 

I disagree. Bylsma did a better job surrounding Malkin with talent. And made Sid come back and play with Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy in 2012.

 

Didn't he break up the Malkin line in the playoffs? I think Bylsma only did a better job surrounding Malkin with talent when Crosby was out.

 

No, he broke it up eventually, but Dupuis - Crosby - Sullivan was largely the playoff line.

 

I have been bringing this up since last year...I miss Sully who would not let his team lose two consecutive games (other than his first four games) he was pissed, he was angry, he wasn't accepting it, since last year it all has been: we did some good things, if we had scorrd first we would have won, these are things to build upon, etc, etc....that tells me he lost that spark, its time to go

 

He reminds me of Therrien a little in terms of that.

Came in. All hard ass. Nobody got a break. Then, he loosened up a little after the finals, and it worked. The team started the 2008-2009 season strong, despite injuries to Gonchar and Whitney.

BUT . . . on a dime, it went south, and it wasn't so easy to go back to hard ass, where it would have the same kind of effect.

Not unlike what's happened with Sullivan in that regard, which is why I doubt he could suddenly pull off that 180, even if he wanted to do it.

More likely than not, it would fall on deaf ears and only serve to accelerate his losing the team further.

 

Sullivan was a hard ass after 2017 and there were rumbles that the team was sick of it. He loosened up the last couple years and it has not helped. It isn't really the problem. I don't care if he yells or not. He isn't making good lineup decisions and he favors third and fourth liners. He doesn't play people according to performance. He doesn't have answers for the power play or 5v5. Yelling won't help you make better decisions. He's lost the touch and the biggest reason is not playing people according to strengths and without bias. He needs to tell Crosby to take a hike.

 

Who's he going to sit/bench them in favour of? There's no talent to go around. It's not like the taxi squad or WBS is bursting at the seams with guys that just need a shot to break out... it's all guys that are clear downgrades to what we've already got.