Terrific column:Nowadays, Outrage Is as Quiet as a Zamboni

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by RangerBoy, Jan 30, 2005.

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  1. RangerBoy

    RangerBoy TRUST THE PROCESS

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    Last edited by moderator 12# Peter Bondra: Jan 30, 2005
  2. Bruwinz37

    Bruwinz37 Registered User

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    That about sums it up.

    Why doesnt the NHL realize they are on a collision course with disaster? Their greed will be the sports final undoing.
     
  3. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    He's right, though he tends to let the owners off a bit easy.
    The key point, however, is that the owners realize where the sport stands today and are trying to reset the economic system to reflect that. The players, unfortunately, believe they're on par with their NFL, NBA and MLB counterparts.
     
  4. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    And they think that way, because of their infamous leader...Bob Goodenow...he got them the right deal last time, but failed to recognize the situation and the owners resolve after some of them losing millions in a salary system that just didn't work for the GAME...If they ever reach a settlement, you should see Bob slip into obscurity...with any luck.
     
  5. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I agree with some of his sentiment, but blaming the entire lockout and destruction of hockey in the US is ridiculous.

    The owners & Bettman share just as much if not more of the blame than the players & Goodenow.

    The whole notion that the Kings have just 18,00 fans, and nobody that doesn't go to the games actually cares. I've heard that so much in Philadelphia, they only have 19,000 fans that fill the building. That's just flat out complete BS. That's something media members like to throw out when they're taking a shot at hockey.
     
  6. Steve L*

    Steve L* Registered User

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    Its not about blame for the lockout, its about refusal to fix the problems in the game, the owners want to do it but the players just want as much cash as possible and dont care where that leads them in 5 years time.
     
  7. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    The owners could give a **** about the game. They're looking to line their own pockets, just like the players are. None of this has anything to do with the "game". It's all a cash grab.
     
  8. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    It's obviously an exaggeration, but there is also some truth to it. I would say the percentage of a fan base that attends the game is much higher in hockey than any other "major" sport.
     
  9. Toonces

    Toonces The beer kitty

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    Again, perfectly surmised...

    This is why I can't support either side.
     
  10. Bruwinz37

    Bruwinz37 Registered User

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    John, it doesnt matter who is to blame. Why cant people get past the blame game? It is about what is needed to do to keep hockey halthy for the future. Even the most ardent supporter of the NHL knows the owners are mostly to blame, but that is in the past. This is about what it is going to take for the NHL to continue to stay afloat.

    If this was about determining blame this would have been over in October, unfortunately its not. This is now about how much the players want to be stubborn in accepting change. There best bet is to negotiate the best cap they can and get back on the ice. If this lockout is still going next October they will be F'd in the A.
     
  11. 12# Peter Bondra

    12# Peter Bondra Registered User

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    I edited the 1st post cause of copyright rights.
     
  12. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Nicely said.
    Every PA supporter says "The owners created this mess and it's up to them to fix it." On this count, they are correct.
    But where they go off the tracks is their failure to understand that the lockout is the owners' chosen method - and arguably only method given collusion laws - of fixing it.
    Nobody disputes that NHL teams are bleeding money (see: 24 percent rollback offer). Nobody disputes that the spiraling cost of player salaries is the primary cause of this (again, 24 percent rollback offer). Therefore, it makes sense for the NHL to impose some sort of system to control labor costs.
     
  13. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    When talking about blame, I wasn't talking about who got us into this place, that is obviously the owners.

    I'm talking about blame as to why the lockout hasn't ended, and IMO both sides share the blame equally. Don't give me this crap that the players are stubborn to change. Their the onles willing to take significant paycuts, and some sort of luxury tax/soft cap system. That is significant change.
     
  14. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    :handclap: Good post.
     
  15. likea

    likea Registered User

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    sorry John, that isn't much of a change. they were trying to buy the system they wanted to keep which is the same system that is in place now.

    the 24% rollbacks have been taken off the table in the NHL because they don't mean much...esp. considering over half its members will be RFA or UFA's at the end of this season

    24% rollbacks do not fix the problem, that luxery tax system they proposed do not fix the problem

    the owners have been willing to budge on everything except fixed numbers for revenue, they want to control costs for smaller market teams so they can compete and draw fans

    this grows the game, the players don't seem to understand and they refuse to look at baseball in places like Pittsburgh or Cincy

    the Pirates are losing their fan base, slowly over time it will fade if something isn't done soon....

    if the NHL owners do the same I will stop watching the NHL, I am sick of watching players leave for money and money trades being made.
     
  16. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    #1. The 24% rollback re-sets the market and establishes a new base. That in and of itself doesn't do anything, but it does take salaries back to a level the owners are looking for. If owners aren't smart enough to base contracts for current UFA's & RFA's, than they don't deserve hockey teams.

    #2. I agree that the luxury tax system that the NHL proposes doesn't go far enough. The percentages must be increased.

    #3. Owners haven't been willing to bugde "on everything else". That is where IMO the owners have made their biggest mistake. They should be willing to trade everything for a hard cap. Yes so far they want a hard cap, very restricted rookie cap, major changes to or abolition of the arbitration system, individual player salary cap, and changes to qualifying offers.

    #4. MLB is a complete disaster, the NHL is nowhere close to that, and any changes made will bring the NHL even further from MLB.
     
  17. Biggest Canuck Fan

    Biggest Canuck Fan BCF

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    :handclap: Here here... John is totally right that both sides are only after money. But the Owners are interested long term, while it seems the players just cannot give up the current system.

    They are hooked, going through withdrawals, and won't give it up without a fight. And honestly who can blame them?
     
  18. likea

    likea Registered User

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    the owners realize they can't control themselves and some owners don't mind paying money from their own pocket as long as they win

    the small market owners cannot control the big market owners

    this is the way they can control it, this is how they ARE being smart.....

    the owners have said it is their fault and they have admitted they cannot control themselves so they turn to their next legal option which is what we are watching now

    coming from a Flyers fan, look at the NHL's payrolls from last year....we had a few teams double what everyone else's payroll is

    its getting to MLB levels and it would continue if it doesn't get fixed now
     
  19. shnagle

    shnagle Registered User

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    Great post, I would like to echo your sentiments about both sides being responsible for the continuation of a lockout. I just finished reading a great ESPN article on how mediation could help resolve the lockout. Here is the link:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1976300

    To summarize, if both sides were really interested in finding a solution why not bring in a mediator. IMO it simply is because it has become more about winning rather than finding a solution. And if it's more about winning than finding a solution I don't see how you can support either side.
     
  20. Biggest Canuck Fan

    Biggest Canuck Fan BCF

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    #1 if they keep the them there then they are charged with Collusion, which the players know full well John.

    #3 Couldn't agree more. You or I can go to whatever job we want without feeling like we betrayed are previous employer. Why can't an NHL player do the same? Lower the Free agency age to 27 or even 26. People don't like it, but hey that is life. No one told any of us we had to work for a certain employer til we were 31, so why should NHL players?

    #4 Unfortunately the NHLPA is saying that baseball works and that it is this system the NHL should emulate... :amazed:
     
  21. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    The biggest problem with the 24 percent rollback, IMO, is that it puts millions of dollars back into the hands of owners who have already shown a propensity to spend wildy and, in many cases, unwisely. And it does so without any serious curbs to prevent them from doing it again.
    It would be nice to think that all future salaries will be established via this new baseline, but realitistically you're just as likely to see a feeding frenzy for UFAs over the next couple years with the now richer big-market teams trying to outbid one another for players.
     
  22. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    #1. Well if they're going to re-spend that money, obviously their moeny situaion isn't as dire as they are trying to portray it.

    #2. A 24% roll back, plus changes to arbitration, qualifying offers, rookie payscale, and a significant luxury tax, would put a significant drag on salaries.
     
  23. Biggest Canuck Fan

    Biggest Canuck Fan BCF

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    #1 This is about the Edmonton's and Phoenix's, who won't be involved in that feeding frenzy. There is no doubt about the viability of Detroit, Colorado..etc...

    #2 Those changes, aside from the 24% the NHL should take. This is an area where the NHLPA are experts, and the NHL should seriously take a look.
     
  24. likea

    likea Registered User

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    the teams that are spending don't have a dire situation, its the 20 other teams that do....

    how are the supposed to compete with the big spenders when they are working as a business and the other teams don't mind paying from their pocket


    the NHLPA would call a significant luxury tax a cap...
     
  25. barnburner

    barnburner Registered User

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    I don't think the 24% rollback was ever anything more than a trial balloon sent up to see if the owners could be budged off the cap issue, a common negotiating tactic. My guess is that if the owners had shown a possibility of taking it as part of moving away from a cap - the nhlpa would have immediately discovered a reason as to why they had to withdraw it. The owners would have blinked, and the advantage meter would have swung towards the players.

    I find it curious that the players throw up various other solutions, claiming that they will accomplish the same things as a cap. If that is the truth - then why are they deadset against a cap? Because it is the one solution that involves dramatically reducing the pay scale without the escape avenues that the other solutions provide to again escalate the player contracts.
     
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