Tell me what the Lightning SHOULD have done

[These Are The Days]

Obviously a sweetener needed to be added.

Thank God HF Boards doesn't have GM powers. They'd have just sold the whole damn team off on day 1 with sweeteners for everyone and then you'd have had Kucherov's injury on top of it. So you'd not only be down your best player, but now you just gave up a bunch of other players you wouldn't have had to AND gave up assets to do it.


Too bad HF doesn't get to have those LOL's but let's get pissed that isn't what happened anyway

 

[Oddbob]

Thank God HF Boards doesn't have GM powers. They'd have just sold the whole damn team off on day 1 with sweeteners for everyone and then you'd have had Kucherov's injury on top of it so you'd not only be down your best player, but now you just gave up a bunch of other players you wouldn't have had to AND gave up assets to do it.


Too bad HF doesn't get to have those LOL's

Nobody is selling off the whole team for sweeteners, just the 1 or 2 that put them over the cap. Again, without Kucherov's injury, what exactly was the gameplan? Also, all you Lightning fans that love this situation so much with the benefit it gives you, would be crying just as much foul if one of the other contenders has 2 or so really good players over the cap and knocks you out.

 

[Kranix]

Stan Bowman would have traded Kucherov for Brandon Saad

 

[Eisen]

Obviously a sweetener needed to be added.

If I can't give Johnson , who is a good player, away for free or all the others don't take him because they think they need to get more, I'm just leaving Kucherov on LTIR. If someone asks, I might add a useless 4th as a sweetener. Certainly not more.

 

[Oddbob]

If I can't give Johnson , who is a good player, away for free or all the others don't take him because they think they need to get more, I'm just leaving Kucherov on LTIR. If someone asks, I might add a useless 4th as a sweetener. Certainly not more.

The question posed though, was what does TB do without the Kucherov injury? No one is doing cap favours for any team for a 4th. The Wings got a 2nd for 1 year of Marc Staal.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

The question posed though, was what does TB do without the Kucherov injury? No one is doing cap favours for any team for a 4th. The Wings got a 2nd for 1 year of Marc Staal.

Today I learned that Marc Staal is still in the NHL.

I haven't heard that name in years.

 

[Eisen]

The question posed though, was what does TB do without the Kucherov injury? No one is doing cap favours for any team for a 4th. The Wings got a 2nd for 1 year of Marc Staal.

They probably had a plan but Kucherov's injury was a godsend in disguise. Johnson is still a good player, taking him is not only doing Tampa a favour, it's a win win situation.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They should have done exactly what they did because whiny fans who bitch about new things every other day shouldn't be having impacts on their decision making.

What Tampa did to go over the cap is completely legal, albeit egregious, and the fact that NHL fans whine and make excuses about literally everything makes me confident that Tampa shouldn't have done anything differently.

If you want to talk about "fairness", paying more to get out of Johnson's contract and then sitting Kucherov on LTIR would have been fine. They would have still been over the cap, but they wouldn't have been over the cap by any more than most other teams in hockey. I know Pittsburgh was over the cap by a similar amount (I think about $3 million over) by some shenanigans they pulled with Tanev after acquiring Carter.

 

[These Are The Days]

Nobody is selling off the whole team for sweeteners, just the 1 or 2 that put them over the cap. Again, without Kucherov's injury, what exactly was the gameplan? Also, all you Lightning fans that love this situation so much with the benefit it gives you, would be crying just as much foul if one of the other contenders has 2 or so really good players over the cap and knocks you out.

No one has any idea what the game plan was. Not even our own GM did. He waived Johnson for absolutely free. It was clear he had no idea what the hell to do beyond sign Sergachev to a similar cap hit Johnson carried. He waited to see what would happen next and Kucherov reported his injury before it got there. Athletes with hip injuries are often asymptomatic for long periods of time. He lucked out on the timeline and has said so many times.

On the other hand if this was story of Blake Coleman no one would have given a shit. But somehow because it was Kucherov we were cheating. We lost Bogosian and Shattenkirk all the same and no one cared about that either.


Everyone's just butthurt because they expected a bloodletting and didn't get it



What would've made it better? Losing Johnson on waivers and THEN Kucherov reports the injury anyway and HF yucks it up in LOL's?

 

[LTIR]

They probably had a plan but Kucherov's injury was a godsend in disguise. Johnson is still a good player, taking him is not only doing Tampa a favour, it's a win win situation.

Or it was a disguised injury.
"Yo with Covid shortened year just take the time off, get this little procedure done and we will call it the surgery ..see you at practice in March."

 

[theimmortal1]

So let’s play what if:

Kuch was actually hurt and got surgery so we can’t even go down the path of what if he wasn’t hurt.

But let’s say they had surgery sooner in day early November. So if the timeline holds he’s back with about 10 games left.

The Bolts wouldn’t have done anything different preseason. You play it out and manage at the deadline

Stamkos ended up getting injured and on LTIR. So Kuch could have come back and fit under the cap.

Perhaps they don’t get Savard though

 

[theimmortal1]

Or it was a disguised injury.
"Yo with Covid shortened year just take the time off, get this little procedure done and we will call it the surgery ..see you at practice in March."

He came back early. If they were playing that game then they should have gotten it done in November.

 

[OilersCoffeeArtBeer]

We won the cup without Stammer last year. Get bent

Yeah, congrats. Would they win it without kucherov ?

 

[theimmortal1]

Yeah, congrats. Would they win it without kucherov ?

Why would they not have Kuch?

 

[Outl4w]

TAMLA SHOULD just win another cup.

 

[FourRings]

I personally think that a system should be in place that rewards high level scouting. Tampa is far and away the most successful franchise at identifying and developing talent. Why should they be penalized for being great at their jobs?

Look at Tampa, most of their players are homegrown (and yes, I'm counting those like Sergachev who were acquired via trade and developed by TB) and both the team and players seem happy there.

I'd love to see a system where homegrown guys have only a portion of their AAV count against the cap to encourage higher quality scouting and development. It sucks to see a guy you develop have to leave or get traded because you've developed too many good players.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I don't blame Brisebois for exploiting the loophole. I blame the league for the loophole being a thing.

 

[Outl4w]

I personally think that a system should be in place that rewards high level scouting. Tampa is far and away the most successful franchise at identifying and developing talent. Why should they be penalized for being great at their jobs?

Look at Tampa, most of their players are homegrown (and yes, I'm counting those like Sergachev who were acquired via trade and developed by TB) and both the team and players seem happy there.

I'd love to see a system where homegrown guys have only a portion of their AAV count against the cap to encourage higher quality scouting and development. It sucks to see a guy you develop have to leave or get traded because you've developed too many good players.

Now this would be would actually be a Tampa salary cap loophole. I am in just to say we are using the Tampa salary loophole! In all seriousness it would hurt the league, because players would take more to stay on bad teams and exploit it for more money than they are worth. I am going all against it.

 

[FourRings]

Now this would be would actually be a Tampa salary cap loophole. I am in just to say we are using the Tampa salary loophole! In all seriousness it would hurt the league, because players would take more to stay on bad teams and exploit it for more money than they are worth. I am going all against it.

See, I don't think that's as big a problem as you do. I'm not saying to completely absolve all of the salary of the player, but just a few % (between 2-5%) of their salary could be excluded. If the team is bad, the player can walk away; it's that simple. Why should TB be penalized for having a great development program?

It also wouldn't be a loophole if this was the rule.

 

[theimmortal1]

Or it was a disguised injury.
"Yo with Covid shortened year just take the time off, get this little procedure done and we will call it the surgery ..see you at practice in March."

Are you serious?

So you think they found a doctor to do an unneeded surgery? Or a doctor that lied about a diagnosis? Do you even hear yourself?

You are accusing the Bolts and multiple doctors of major fraud.

 

[Flair Hay]

It's October 2020. The Lightning won the Stanley Cup and we're about 2 weeks out. Julien Brisebois (JBB) has to sign: Erik Cernak, Mikhail Sergachev and Anthony Cirelli.

JBB basically has nothing for cap space. JBB responds by waiving Tyler Johnson hoping somebody bites.

No one does

Tyler Johnson clears waivers, Lightning still need salary cap relief

He waits out the market and nothing happens. Still have to sign the RFA's

JBB Signs Sergachev November 25th 2020. He has to right?

Kucherov reports hip discomfort December 3rd. Team responds with cortisone shots and palliative treatment. It is a well known fact this hip injury is a direct result of a groin injury sustained in game 1 5 OT marathon vs the CBJ in the playoffs. The Lightning are certainly aware of the recovery time necessary if you pursue hip surgery. Hint: it would be a very long time... about 5 or 6 months.

Still up in the air certainly. JBB does not make moves when he is not certain. He has to be careful right? You're not only in cap hell but your best player is not responding to treatment. He probably needs hip surgery.

I mean.... best wait and get a timetable right?

NHL, NHLPA announce plans for 2020-21 season, playoffs


NHL announces season schedule December 20th. Now stop there. JBB still has to Cirelli and Cernak to sign.

You're the GM of the Lightning. Your options are

1. Make Kucherov play on a bad hip --> You therefore gotta blow it up and deal from a bad position
2. Kucherov has surgery --> You blow it up anyway and deal from a bad position
3. Kucherov has surgery --> Re-sign RFA's and let the rest go from there

By December 22nd they go with option 3 and Kucherov has surgery on December 30th with the official announcement being made on the 23rd. They do it after Christmas **shocker**

Lightning's Nikita Kucherov needs hip surgery, out for regular season

Lightning optimistic following Kucherov’s hip surgery

The RFA's re-sign

So I ask you. How does a GM go about options 1 or 2. What do they say to the fans? "We are worried about fair play?" So they deal from a bad position while their star player recovers? Or they make their star player play on a bad hip and risk making it worse AND deal from a bad position?


YOU tell ME what the right thing to do is. If it's cap circumvention show me your homework. The injury was reported almost 3 weeks ahead of any kind of announced schedule. Show me the corrupted master plan and what should've been done differently

Haha yeah not buying it man. Not one bit. They covered their tracks just enough the league whimped out and let it slide for one last year.

In big business double speak terms, they would call it "ongoing injury assessment" or something like that

This wasnt Astros bad, but I certainly dont blame anyone for calling out BS when they see it. It is what it is.

 

[General Disarray]

When the win the cup this year, there needs to be an asterisk beside their name.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Kucherov got injured early in the 2020 playoffs.
The Finals ended on September 28th, 2020.

He "reported" his injury on December 3rd? That's nonsense.
They knew he was injured months earlier.

Tampa played the system to circumvent the cap. Good for them, it's working in their favor and giving them a competitive advantage in the playoffs.
Let's not pretend otherwise. IF it were my team I'd want them to do the same thing until the league closes the loophole.

 

[theimmortal1]

Haha yeah not buying it man. Not one bit. They covered their tracks just enough the league whimped out and let it slide for one last year.

In big business double speak terms, they would call it "ongoing injury assessment" or something like that

This wasnt Astros bad, but I certainly dont blame anyone for calling out BS when they see it. It is what it is.

Think about what you are saying.

If they had the surgery earlier and he came back with 10 games left, then what? What do the Bolts lose?

The answer is Savard at most. Stamkos was on LTIR longer than any number of games Kuch would have been back for.

 

[theimmortal1]

Kucherov got injured early in the 2020 playoffs.
The Finals ended on September 28th, 2020.

He "reported" his injury on December 3rd? That's nonsense.
They knew he was injured months earlier.

Tampa played the system to circumvent the cap. Good for them, it's working in their favor and giving them a competitive advantage in the playoffs.
Let's not pretend otherwise. IF it were my team I'd want them to do the same thing until the league closes the loophole.

If he had the surgery in late October you’d have the same Bolts team ex Savard.