Teemu Selanne = Hall of Fame?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dolphinwave

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
203
0
Montreal
One thing to add

It might not be a significant thing, but I think we also should take in consideration that Selanne is the 2nd best Finn player of all time, 2nd only to Jari Kurri. If Kurri had not played with Gretzky, Selanne would be number 1. Selanne played with Kariya for a while and did put impressive numbers. IMO Selanne's a lock for the Hall of Fame. Not in his first year of eligibility, but he'll be in for sure.

He'll get the 500 goals(where other people from his era are far behind except Jagr, who played with Mario, Recchi and cie) and 1000 points before the end of his career for sure. He's getting a good year, and next year can only be promising too.
Playoff cannot be counted as the only thing that gets someone into the HHOF. Selanne was in a mediocre team and do you really all think Guy Hebert could've brought the Ducks somewhere in the playoffs? If Selanne had still ben in Anaheim when the ducks went to the Finals, I could assure you he would've have tons of points more, and a Cup ring.
 

100mph slapshot

Registered User
Nov 19, 2005
429
1
Finland
In 97-98 he had 52 goals in 73 games playing in the same line with players like Steve Rucchin (an ok 3rd-liner player but not a playmaker by any means), Scott Young (average 2nd liner, good PP-guy), Joe Sacco (AHL-caliber) and Travis Green (basically has been a 3rd liner all of his career). He had 30 goals in his first 34 games (if I remember correctly) and played the second half of the season with an injury, also missing 9 games. As a fan of his play I was quite sad he couldn't stay healthy the whole season, would have been a clear MVP in my opinion.

I think people ofthen forget what a great playmaker he is. Sure he's a goalscorer, but there have been stretches in his career when he's played with an injured leg and he intentionally changed his game a bit and started setting up his linemates, especially on a powerplay.
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
There aren't many players in their prime today who warrant HHOF induction. My HHOF standards are very lofty. I think if a player is going to get in without some form of playoff success (not necessarily a Cup, just a good track record, like Cam Neely), they need to have either dominated the regular season for an extended period of time (a la Marcel Dionne) or done something unprecedented in the history of the game. (Witness Mike Gartner, who also struggled in the playoffs but did things in the regular season over the course of his career that nobody else, ever, has done). Playoffs are a very big deal to the HHOF voters, and for good reason, because that's the hockey that's truly important. (Dionne and Gartner would be much higher on the all-time lists if they're playoff records were better).

Selanne has never had a playoff where he stepped up his performance from the regular season, or a memorable playoff, or a playoff where he carried his team on his back. The fact that he was on mediocre teams is not an excuse, as a lot of players have been on mediocre teams, and still found a way to produce.

His international track record won't matter, as it is only used as a barometer for those who played their prime or the majority of their career outside of the NHL.

Fedorov will get in. Even though he had several years where his production didn't match his skills, he was still excellent defensively, and his key role on three Cup champions will cement his case. Shanahan has been one of the quintessential power forwards for the last 15 years, and likely going to go down as one of the best all-round LWs ever. Again, a key player on three Cup champions, and the missing piece for Detroit. He'll get in. Joe Nieuwendyk is one of six players to win a Cup with three different teams. He was a clutch player in the playoffs, and has a Conn Smythe. Factor in his faceoff ability and leadership, and his regular season production when healthy, and he gets in. Sakic, Jagr and Forsberg, of course, are locks.

Right now, there isn't a player under 30 who is a lock to get in the HHOF. It's been a long time since we've been able to say that.

I hold Selanne in the highest regard. He was an offensive wizard with the puck in both playmaking and goal scoring roles. He had something resembling a physical game, But his playoff record and his play after 1999 will keep him out. Recchi, Roenick, Turgeon and Bondra won't get a sniff of the Hall. Sundin, Modano and Mogilny won't make it, either.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,144
For me there are four guys who are oftern debated and very similar. Bure, Selanne, Fedorov, Mogilny. All four will get a shot at the Hall. Fedorov is the only pretty much shoo-in so far.

But Selanne cant be ignored either. Yeah he has a bad playoff record. It might surprise you that Dionne does as well, or Andreychuk (someone who shouldnt get any where near the Hall). Selanne is no Dionne, but ask yourself this, was he ever a top 10 player in the game for multiple seasons? Yes. Maybe even top 5. He led the league in goals three times, and has 4 100 plus point seasons. How can you not consider him? At least everyone here should consider him. He's not a first ballot but he needs consideration.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,426
Vancouver, BC
God Bless Canada said:
There aren't many players in their prime today who warrant HHOF induction. My HHOF standards are very lofty.

This is the problem. We aren't dealing with your standards. Who you or I would have in the HHOF doesn't really matter. We're dealing with the established HHOF standards.

There are roughly 20 forwards going to the HHOF for their contributions in their primes from 1984-1994:

Neely
Francis
Stastny
Goulet
Yzerman
Oates
Hull
Savard
Lafontaine
Gartner
Lemieux
Niewendyk
Mullen
Gilmour
Gretzky
Messier
Kurri
Hawerchuk
Robitaille
Larionov
+ at least 1 of Anderson, Carbonneau, Ciccarelli will make it eventually.

There are about 15 forwards in the HHOF who are there for their contributions from 1974-84.

But you'd only have 5-6 forwards representing the 94-04 period. That's just not consistent. There might not be 20 HHOF guys like during the '80s, but eventually at least 10-14 forwards representing this era will be in the HHOF.

Just because some of these guys don't do it for you the way guys in the 1980s did doesn't mean that the HHOF will ignore this era. The best players will be inducted at a similar ratio to what they always have.


God Bless Canada said:
I think if a player is going to get in without some form of playoff success (not necessarily a Cup, just a good track record, like Cam Neely), they need to have either dominated the regular season for an extended period of time (a la Marcel Dionne) or done something unprecedented in the history of the game. (Witness Mike Gartner, who also struggled in the playoffs but did things in the regular season over the course of his career that nobody else, ever, has done). Playoffs are a very big deal to the HHOF voters, and for good reason, because that's the hockey that's truly important. (Dionne and Gartner would be much higher on the all-time lists if they're playoff records were better).

Selanne has never had a playoff where he stepped up his performance from the regular season, or a memorable playoff, or a playoff where he carried his team on his back. The fact that he was on mediocre teams is not an excuse, as a lot of players have been on mediocre teams, and still found a way to produce.

His international track record won't matter, as it is only used as a barometer for those who played their prime or the majority of their career outside of the NHL.

Selanne never played on a team that had home-ice advantage in the first round of the playoffs until he was 32 and past his prime. Name another player who produced memorable playoffs in those circumstances.

He played on terrible teams. He delivered to the best of his ability, at a rate similar to his regular season production. This is not the same case as for many Buffalo/Washington players during the '80s who played on excellent teams but completely choked in the playoffs.

By your standards, then, Selanne only makes the HHOF if he manages to single-handedly destroy Detroit at their zenith in the 1997 or 1999 playoffs while playing on an 8th-seeded team?

God Bless Canada said:
Fedorov will get in. Even though he had several years where his production didn't match his skills, he was still excellent defensively, and his key role on three Cup champions will cement his case. Shanahan has been one of the quintessential power forwards for the last 15 years, and likely going to go down as one of the best all-round LWs ever. Again, a key player on three Cup champions, and the missing piece for Detroit. He'll get in. Joe Nieuwendyk is one of six players to win a Cup with three different teams. He was a clutch player in the playoffs, and has a Conn Smythe. Factor in his faceoff ability and leadership, and his regular season production when healthy, and he gets in. Sakic, Jagr and Forsberg, of course, are locks.

Right now, there isn't a player under 30 who is a lock to get in the HHOF. It's been a long time since we've been able to say that.

I hold Selanne in the highest regard. He was an offensive wizard with the puck in both playmaking and goal scoring roles. He had something resembling a physical game, But his playoff record and his play after 1999 will keep him out. Recchi, Roenick, Turgeon and Bondra won't get a sniff of the Hall. Sundin, Modano and Mogilny won't make it, either.

How are the careers of Sundin and Modano inferior to those of, say, Sittler and Federko?

Sundin, Modano, and Selanne are all complete locks. There isn't a chance in hell any of those three guys don't make it. All will have 500+ goals and 1200+ points - numbers that were good enough to take most every player from the 80s to the HHOF, never mind doing it when scoring was 30-40% lower. All were class acts and terrific all-around players. Sundin will be the all-time leading scorer of an original 6 team. Modano was the face of his franchise for 20 years, and the top player on a Cup champion. And Selanne we've beaten to death already.

Of the rest of those guys, some will make it, some won't.
 

sunb

Registered User
Jun 27, 2004
3,232
0
Yale University
Let me throw a spin into this.

If Selanne is such a lock to make the HHOF, what about Keith Tkachuk?

He has also led the entire NHL in goal scoring one year with 52 goals and has been a top 10 goal scorer on many other occasions.

I believe he is the first American to ever lead the league in goal scoring and one of the only two or three players to ever register a 50+ goal / 225+ penalty minutes season.

For the most part of his career, Tkachuk was a punishing hitter, a dominant powerforward and an elite left-winger (perhaps the best in the game for a year or two).

Does he make it? His stats are just a tad worse than that of Selanne's but Tkachuk's been a physical force and has provided his team with an additional invaluable dimension as evident by his career 1865 penalty minutes. Tkachuk has also been somewhat of a good leader and has been captain for a good duration.

While Selanne and Tkachuk started their rookie seasons together in Winnipeg, Tkachuk is 2 years younger and has a couple of more years left in the tank. At the end of their careers, they may be close parallels.

864 Games (46 less games than Selanne)
438 Goals (30 less goals than Selanne)
846 Points (132 less points than Selanne)
1865 Penalty Minutes (1506 more minutes than Selanne)
Tkachuk is also a couple of years younger

Is he in the same stratosphere as Selanne? If so, do they make the HHOF?
 
Last edited:

pnep

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
2,907
1,183
Novosibirsk,Russia
Jovanovski = Norris said:
Let me throw a spin into this.

If Selanne is such a lock to make the HHOF, what about Keith Tkachuk?

Major NHL Awards

Selanne Teemu:

LADY BYING TROPHY:
RUNNER UP - 2


HART TROPHY:
RUNNER UP - 1

MAURICE RICHARD TROPHY:
WINNER - 3
RUNNER UP - 1

ALL STAR TEAM:
1 - 2
2 - 2

ART ROSS TROPHY:
RUNNER UP - 2

All Star Game - 9 (1 MVP)



Tkachuk Keith:

MAURICE RICHARD TROPHY:
WINNER - 1

All Star Game - 4

ALL STAR TEAM:
2 - 2




Selanne is Lock and Tkachuk is not HHOF-er...
 
Last edited:

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
I don't care if Selanne never won a playoff series in his life. That's not the point. After all, it's hard to soar with the eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys. I care about whether or not he elevated his play in the post-season. That's something he never did. Look at the all-time greats in the history of the game. All of them elevated their play in the post-season at some point in their career, and most did it on several occasions. Name me all of the players in the HHOF who never once elevated their play in the post-season. Dionne. Gartner. Those are the two that come to mind immediately. (Tretiak and Kharlamov not included because they spent their careers in the USSR).

The bottom line is that Selanne never elevated his play from the regular season to the post-season. You can say he played at such a high level already, but a defining characteristic of greatness is being able to elevate your game to another level when the games are most important. Selanne never did that, and that will be a blight on his portfolio when his turn comes up for HHOF induction. Forget the numbers, the 13 goals in 21 games or the 33 points in 49 games overall (I know looking beyond numbers is a hard concept in today's fantasy sports-driven world), just look at his play, and the bottom line is he never elevated his play in the playoffs. He had four goals in six games in 1993. But three of those goals came in Game 3, and he struggled in the other five games. The post-season is a very big deal to Hall voters, and Selanne's abject failure to take his game to the next level is why he won't get in.

As for the argument of taking a certain number of players from each era, I strongly disagree with the concept. If there's nobody who deserves to be inducted, they shouldn't be inducted. Inducting Bondra, Recchi, Mogilny, Roenick and especially human Nerf ball Turgeon would amount to nothing more than inducting players for the sake of inducting them, and I think the HHOF has succeeded in getting away from that practice in recent years. (Clark Gillies and, to a lesser extent, Bernie Federko, excluded).
 

reckoning

Registered User
Jan 4, 2005
7,012
1,251
God Bless Canada said:
Right now, there isn't a player under 30 who is a lock to get in the HHOF. It's been a long time since we've been able to say that.

Recchi, Roenick, Turgeon and Bondra won't get a sniff of the Hall. Sundin, Modano and Mogilny won't make it, either.

I`ll be surprised if Iginla doesn`t get in, but how many guys are locks before they`re 30? A lot of current locks (i.e. Belfour, Hasek, Shanahan,) weren`t considered sure-HHOF`ers at that age. How a player plays in his 30s plays a huge role. Even if you`re never the best player in the league, several consistent years at a high level will be enough. That`s why I feel Modano and Sundin are qualified for the Hall. Far more deserving than a one-dimensional player who merely accumulated points by sticking around for a long time (i.e. Andreychuk or Robitaille).
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
Iginla would need several more years of performance at a top level to get in. If something were to happen and he would be forced to retire tomorrow, he would not get in. Five more years of play at the level seen in 2002 and 2004 will get him in.

A lot of the 1980s guys that MS mentioned earlier were HHOFers before their 30th birthday. Guys like Gretzky and Lemieux are obvious, but others - Hawerchuk, Savard, Stastny, Yzerman, Neely, LaFontaine, Hull, Kurri and Messier - could have retired at age 30 and still be inducted. In Neely's case, he was 30 when he played his last game.

I've always viewed Robitaille as overrated, but he'll get in, thanks to his place as the top scoring LW of all-time. (Even though I think he's far from the No. 1 LW ever). To me, one of the defining moments of Robitaille's career was the (repeated) benchings in the Kings' 1993 playoff run, only weeks after he set new LW regular season records. He was a bit player on the Red Wings' cup championship team in 2002. His playoff record hurts his standing on my all-time LW list.

Andreychuk, as I've said before, is a very interesting case. Before TBay, I would have said no, and an emphatic one at that, even though his career numbers are nice. (His 637 goals would set a new standard for players not in the Hall). But his work as a leader in Tampa cannot be overlooked. As hard as it is to believe, Andreychuk has as much to do with the organization's turn-around as anyone. That locker room would still be a fractured, dysfunctional mess if not for Andreychuk and Tim Taylor. Lecavalier would have been dealt in early 2004 if not for Andreychuk playing peacemaker between Lecavalier and Tortorella. He was the best captain in the league from 2002 to 2004. Our last memories of Andreychuk are going to be very, very good, and that will influence some votes. I still say no to Andreychuk in the HHOF, but not as fiercely as I did before. To say he's one-dimensional is to discount his leadership in TBay.
 

Kingbobert

Registered User
Jul 15, 2005
4,996
181
Montreal
umm he's getting in...

one of the greatest Finish players of all time
and i think if not mistaen the current holder of most career points of any Finish player

speaking of Fins...should people who have gone through what koivu has be considered for HHOF at the end of their carreers? (not saying koivu specifically just the whole cancer and comeback type of thing)

Also, people mentioned turgeon not making the HHOF..well 1302 points so far in 1242 games and 94 points in 105 playoff appearences...why does he not diserve consideration...he's amongst the top 50 all time scorers in NHL history
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
Kingbobert said:
umm he's getting in...

one of the greatest Finish players of all time
and i think if not mistaen the current holder of most career points of any Finish player

speaking of Fins...should people who have gone through what koivu has be considered for HHOF at the end of their carreers? (not saying koivu specifically just the whole cancer and comeback type of thing)

Also, people mentioned turgeon not making the HHOF..well 1302 points so far in 1242 games and 94 points in 105 playoff appearences...why does he not diserve consideration...he's amongst the top 50 all time scorers in NHL history
Comparisons to Pierre Turgeon are usually reserved for highly-skilled players who lack intensity, consistency and a willingness to take a hit to make a play. Turgeon is likely far and away the softest player among the all-time top 50 scorers. HHOF voters look beyond the statistics, and when they do that, they'll realize that what they have is a player with immense talent who put up some eye-popping numbers, but was frail and unwilling to be involved in the physical nature of the game.

For a player that soft, he did have some good playoffs (he saved his job in St. Louis with his brilliant performance in the 1999 post-season), but that's not enough to overcome what goes through most people's minds when they hear the name Pierre Turgeon.
 

jamiebez

Registered User
Apr 5, 2005
4,025
327
Ottawa
God Bless Canada said:
I don't care if Selanne never won a playoff series in his life. That's not the point. After all, it's hard to soar with the eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys. I care about whether or not he elevated his play in the post-season. That's something he never did. Look at the all-time greats in the history of the game. All of them elevated their play in the post-season at some point in their career, and most did it on several occasions. Name me all of the players in the HHOF who never once elevated their play in the post-season. Dionne. Gartner. Those are the two that come to mind immediately. (Tretiak and Kharlamov not included because they spent their careers in the USSR).

The bottom line is that Selanne never elevated his play from the regular season to the post-season. You can say he played at such a high level already, but a defining characteristic of greatness is being able to elevate your game to another level when the games are most important. Selanne never did that, and that will be a blight on his portfolio when his turn comes up for HHOF induction. Forget the numbers, the 13 goals in 21 games or the 33 points in 49 games overall (I know looking beyond numbers is a hard concept in today's fantasy sports-driven world), just look at his play, and the bottom line is he never elevated his play in the playoffs. He had four goals in six games in 1993. But three of those goals came in Game 3, and he struggled in the other five games. The post-season is a very big deal to Hall voters, and Selanne's abject failure to take his game to the next level is why he won't get in.

As for the argument of taking a certain number of players from each era, I strongly disagree with the concept. If there's nobody who deserves to be inducted, they shouldn't be inducted. Inducting Bondra, Recchi, Mogilny, Roenick and especially human Nerf ball Turgeon would amount to nothing more than inducting players for the sake of inducting them, and I think the HHOF has succeeded in getting away from that practice in recent years. (Clark Gillies and, to a lesser extent, Bernie Federko, excluded).
You're a tough guy to convince, I'll give you that ;)

I've been staying out of this thread, since MS has been doing such a good job on the "pro-Selanne" arguments, but let me add a different spin on things - who else goes in ahead of him, based on when they are likely to retire?

Assuming (conservatively) the HHOF takes only 2 guys a year, expect 10 guys from this list below to make it in the induction years of 2009-2013 or so.

Sakic
Forsberg
Jagr
Selanne
Recchi
Roenick
Turgeon
Bondra
Kariya
Sundin
Modano
Shanahan
Mogilny
Tkachuk
Lindros
Andreychuk

I'm probably missing a few, but are there 10 guys on this list ahead of Selanne? I don't think so, and I'm betting the HHOF agrees with me.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,426
Vancouver, BC
God Bless Canada said:
I don't care if Selanne never won a playoff series in his life. That's not the point. After all, it's hard to soar with the eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys. I care about whether or not he elevated his play in the post-season. That's something he never did. Look at the all-time greats in the history of the game. All of them elevated their play in the post-season at some point in their career, and most did it on several occasions. Name me all of the players in the HHOF who never once elevated their play in the post-season. Dionne. Gartner. Those are the two that come to mind immediately. (Tretiak and Kharlamov not included because they spent their careers in the USSR).

The bottom line is that Selanne never elevated his play from the regular season to the post-season. You can say he played at such a high level already, but a defining characteristic of greatness is being able to elevate your game to another level when the games are most important. Selanne never did that, and that will be a blight on his portfolio when his turn comes up for HHOF induction. Forget the numbers, the 13 goals in 21 games or the 33 points in 49 games overall (I know looking beyond numbers is a hard concept in today's fantasy sports-driven world), just look at his play, and the bottom line is he never elevated his play in the playoffs. He had four goals in six games in 1993. But three of those goals came in Game 3, and he struggled in the other five games. The post-season is a very big deal to Hall voters, and Selanne's abject failure to take his game to the next level is why he won't get in.

See Ron Francis during his Hartford years for how difficult it is to perform in the playoffs on a last-seeded team expected to be killed by a Cup favorite in the first round. Francis was no choker (as we can see from his Pittsburgh years) but his playoff track record while in Hartford is awful.

See also Keith Tkachuk, who is a legitimate playoff choke - aquired by an elite St. Louis team in 2001 to put them over the top, scored 2 goals in 15 games. 9 goals in his last 50 games overall. That's an example of a guy whose playoff resume will be held against him, because he had the opportunities to succeed and didn't come through. Not Selanne.

Dionne and Gartner are far from the only two HHOFers to raise their games in the playoffs. Those are two players whose performances fell considerably, and Andy Bathgate is another. There are many players (Hawerchuk and Lafontaine amongst them) who didn't have much success in the playoffs, but didn't really choke and produced at a similar rate to their regular season performance. Selanne goes in this group.

The other thing worth mentioning is that expansion has made it much harder to end up on a decent team. In the 6-team NHL, everyone had multiple opportunities to show what they could do in extended playoff runs. As the league went from 12 to 21 teams, it became more difficult, but most players had an opportunity to be on a good team at least a couple times in their career. At 30 teams, more and more players get mired in rotten organizations. And a lower and lower percentage of players have a chance at the Cup.


God Bless Canada said:
As for the argument of taking a certain number of players from each era, I strongly disagree with the concept. If there's nobody who deserves to be inducted, they shouldn't be inducted. Inducting Bondra, Recchi, Mogilny, Roenick and especially human Nerf ball Turgeon would amount to nothing more than inducting players for the sake of inducting them, and I think the HHOF has succeeded in getting away from that practice in recent years. (Clark Gillies and, to a lesser extent, Bernie Federko, excluded).

The problem is that you're excluding players whose resumes, stats, and accompishments have clearly been enough traditionally to get into the HHOF. Modano, Sundin, and Selanne are locks in any era. And any player who scored 500 goals playing predominantly in the dead-puck era will get a long, long look.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,144
God Bless Canada said:
Andreychuk, as I've said before, is a very interesting case. Before TBay, I would have said no, and an emphatic one at that, even though his career numbers are nice. (His 637 goals would set a new standard for players not in the Hall). But his work as a leader in Tampa cannot be overlooked. As hard as it is to believe, Andreychuk has as much to do with the organization's turn-around as anyone. That locker room would still be a fractured, dysfunctional mess if not for Andreychuk and Tim Taylor. Lecavalier would have been dealt in early 2004 if not for Andreychuk playing peacemaker between Lecavalier and Tortorella. He was the best captain in the league from 2002 to 2004. Our last memories of Andreychuk are going to be very, very good, and that will influence some votes. I still say no to Andreychuk in the HHOF, but not as fiercely as I did before. To say he's one-dimensional is to discount his leadership in TBay.


Andreychuk? Oh slap me silly! Okay look, if you start your career back in 1982 during the highest scoring era of NHL history and are still playing at age 42 in 2005 you're going to score a lot of goals in your career. Its a given. But Andreychuk's two best seasons are in Gilmour's prime who was his linemate in TO. If Gilmour is borderline, then Andreychuk shouldnt even breathe the HOF. his career PPG is not very good, and his playoff stats arent good either. Does anyone care about who has the record for most career power play goals? No but Andreychuk has it. But this is a guy who had no post seaosn all-stars and never ever came close to being the top 20 players in the game at any poitn in his career.

It would be an all-time low if Andreychuk got in. This is how much he shouldnt be in. I'll put Clark Gilles in ahead of him. At least the guy has four Cups and was a first team all-star twice. And by they way Gilles induction makes me shiver.
 

abe jr

Registered User
Jun 8, 2004
2,383
4
reckoning said:
Selanne`s numbers are very impressive over his career, but they look lower than they are because of the dead puck era. A while back on here, somebody (I think Hockey Outsider) posted a list of the top all-time scorers with their totals adjusted for eras and Selanne finished much higher than I would have expected.

Hall of Fame? Selanne has had virtually no success of any type in the playoffs in his career. If your playoff resume is that thin, then you have to put up Marcel Dionne-type numbers in the regular season in order to overcome that and get in the Hall. He`ll also be hurt by the fact that his best season was his rookie season, making everything that came afterwards look not as impressive.

What about Cam Neely...if he gets in, then so selanne should in a heartbeat

sorry didnt see your post roshiajin
 

Heavy Fuel

Guest
In his second year in Winnipeg Teemu Selanne severed his achilles tendon. For a guy whose game, like Bure, was largely built around speed it was a big blow. I felt he was never quite as fast after that. He still put up great numbers since then but nothing like that amazing rookie year in terms of goal scoring. I have sometimes wondered what he would have accomplished if he hadn't had that injury.

I think he has a 60/40 chance of making it and IMO he deserves it. The lack of playoff scoring argument is valid, but should not exclude him considering the typically mediocre teams he was on.
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
El_Loco_Avs said:
What about Selanne's international achievements?
He did some amazing things.
International only becomes a factor when dealing with players who spent the majority of their careers overseas (Tretiak, Kharlamov, Fetisov). Name me one player who spent the majority of their career in the NHL, was viewed as a borderline candidate for the Hall, and got the nod because of international play. It hasn't happened. In the case of Sergei Makarov, his international record hasn't got him in, either. (IMO, Makarov was a better player than Selanne, and Makarov has been passed over a mere five times).

While the idea of international play for NHLers having an impact in HHOF voting is a nice one, it doesn't work that way. By the time Selanne retires, odds are it will be a very different HHOF selection committee, and perhaps they will bring different criteria. But if they continue to use the current criteria, Selanne's international accolades won't mean anything.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
reckoning said:
I`ll be surprised if Iginla doesn`t get in, but how many guys are locks before they`re 30? A lot of current locks (i.e. Belfour, Hasek, Shanahan,) weren`t considered sure-HHOF`ers at that age. How a player plays in his 30s plays a huge role. Even if you`re never the best player in the league, several consistent years at a high level will be enough. That`s why I feel Modano and Sundin are qualified for the Hall. Far more deserving than a one-dimensional player who merely accumulated points by sticking around for a long time (i.e. Andreychuk or Robitaille).


Well, If you were considering careers that have happened up to this point, Iginla would be laughed at. No way he belongs based on what he's done so far.

But if he keeps this up for many years...I think he'd get in.
 

abe jr

Registered User
Jun 8, 2004
2,383
4
canucksfan said:
Cam Neely was a much better hockey player than Teemu Selanne.


how so??? not a canadian bias is it???

look at their career stats.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->