Ted Leonsis: We will do everything to help Ovi to beat Gretzky's goals record

[Nasti]

This is so hard to express to people who didn't see it in real time. Watching a highlight reel, or going back and watching a handful of old playoff games where you already know the outcome, doesn't really convey it properly.

Gretzky was a guy where every single freakin' day you look at the box scores and he has 2 or 3 points. You watch him play a game and he doesn't do a single thing to draw you out of your seat, but at the end you realize he had 3 assists in that game. You say to yourself that he's not that good, he's just leeching points, he's an OK first liner but overrated as a star. And then he has 3 points in the next game. And a hat trick in the one after that. And it just keeps going and going, month after month and year after year. There hasn't been anyone else like that in the league ever. It was truly unique.



1983
1. Gretzky 196
2. Stastny 124
3. Savard 121

1984
1. Gretzky 205
2. Coffey 126
3. Goulet 122

1987
1. Gretzky 183
2. Kurri 108
3. Lemieux/Messier 107

Those were years where the #2 guy had fewer points than the three most recent Art Ross winners (128, 127 pace, 153 pace). Gretzky was scoring 183-205 points in that environment.

I almost don’t blame people. It’s hard to fathom that kind of production when the only time you’ve seen it happen is in an EA Sports video game.

 

[Fig]

Did they also pay the other Metro teams to help Ovi reach that milestone?

In all seriousness though, it seems like the goaltending league wide had a huge shuffle and the overall goaltending on metro teams seems like it got weaker overall. I think Ovi has a good chance on breaking that record.

 

[McFlash97]

How about 4 on 4 PPs and 3 on 3 OTs as well? Could you imagine Gretzky, Kurri and Coffey out one shift then Messier, Anderson, Huddy the next.

Courtesy of Wikipedia…


The Gretzky rule

In June 1985, as part of a package of five rule changes to be implemented for the 1985–86 season, the NHL Board of Governors decided to introduce offsetting penalties, where neither team lost a man when coincidental penalties were called. The effect of calling offsetting penalties was felt immediately in the NHL, because during the early 1980s, when the Gretzky-era Oilers entered a four-on-four or three-on-three situation with an opponent, they frequently used the space on the ice to score one or more goals.[77][78] Gretzky held a press conference one day after being awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy, criticizing the NHL for punishing teams and players who previously benefited. The rule change became known as "the Gretzky rule."[77][79] The rule was reversed for the 1992–93 season.[80]

Looks like they reversed the rule just in time for Mario's prime, yet removed it when Wayne was in his.


Gretzky is the greatest bar none. Changing rules to stop the guy. Cmon man that shit is just cartoonish.

Chalk up another one for the Great One.

 

[syz]

If you're that serious about it trade him to Edmonton with max salary retention.

 

[iamjs]

Looks like they reversed the rule just in time for Mario's prime, yet removed it when Wayne was in his.


Gretzky is the greatest bar none. Changing rules to stop the guy. Cmon man that shit is just cartoonish.

Chalk up another one for the Great One.

Yes, they changed that rule just to help Mario. Cmon man that shit is just cartoonish.

 

[Iapyi]

You care a lot about putting down the most electrifying player of a generation while trying to convince everyone you're a real fan though. And yeah, fans don't care about it at all, that's why there's 3 threads on Ovechkin potentially breaking the goal record FIVE years from now and you're in one of those threads rather than one about Tampa's back to back cups or whatever "real" hockey fans care about

Typical persecution complex. How in the world am I "putting down" anyone? Jiminy Crickets some of you folk just look for reasons to be offended. Casual fans do care about records so I'm not surprised there is three threads about the same subject matter. I don't care about records. I care about loving, playing and watching the games.

I appreciate Ovechkin for what he is, an effective goal scorer and a bull on ice when it comes to the contact game. It's great to see that he has toned down on the dirty hits he used to do so regularly. In other important aspects of the game he is well below average except his passing which gets an average grade. I don't pretend he's something he's not like so many others do.

Frankly the lavish and unrealistic praise he gets from so many people is so over the top it prompts a balancing from other people. It's natural. I have nothing against Ovechkin though the adulation he gets is something we can do without.

 

[Nasti]

Most underrated part of Gretzky’s game: his ability to take a pass into his skates and direct it to his stick. Look into it.

 

[VanillaCoke]

He ain't gonna make it

 

[tarheelhockey]

Definitely see what you mean, but I think looking at #2 or #3 is still a little volatile. If you take Gretzky's leads over #10 in point and goals in each of his years, and applied those same % leads to the #10 in goals and points in the cap era, you would get:

Year	Gretzky Points	Gretzky Goals	10th in Points	10th in Goals	% ahead P	% ahead G
1980	137	51	94	47	45.7%	8.5%
1981	164	55	103	48	59.2%	14.6%
1982	212	92	106	50	100.0%	84.0%
1983	196	71	104	48	88.5%	47.9%
1984	205	87	105	47	95.2%	85.1%
1985	208	73	102	46	103.9%	58.7%
1986	215	52	105	46	104.8%	13.0%
1987	183	62	95	42	92.6%	47.6%
1988	149	40	106	48	40.6%	-16.7%
1989	168	54	98	46	71.4%	17.4%
1990	142	40	102	45	39.2%	-11.1%
1991	163	41	101	45	61.4%	-8.9%
1992	121	31	99	42	22.2%	-26.2%
1993	65	16	123	54	-47.2%	-70.4%
1994	130	38	99	46	31.3%	-17.4%
1995	48	11	53	26	-9.4%	-57.7%
1996	102	23	107	47	-4.7%	-51.1%
1997	97	25	122	42	-20.5%	-40.5%
Year	10th in Points	10th in Goals	% ahead P	% ahead G	Gretzky P	Gretzky G
2006	93	40	45.7%	8.5%	136	43
2007	95	40	59.2%	14.6%	151	46
2008	87	40	100.0%	84.0%	174	74
2009	88	39	88.5%	47.9%	166	58
2010	86	35	95.2%	85.1%	168	65
2011	77	34	103.9%	58.7%	157	54
2012	78	36	104.8%	13.0%	160	41
2013	49	21	92.6%	47.6%	94	31
2014	79	34	40.6%	-16.7%	111	28
2015	73	33	71.4%	17.4%	125	39
2016	77	33	39.2%	-11.1%	107	29
2017	75	34	61.4%	-8.9%	121	31
2018	89	39	22.2%	-26.2%	109	29
2019	96	41	-47.2%	-70.4%	51	12
2020	78	34	31.3%	-17.4%	102	28
2021	62	26	-9.4%	-57.7%	56	11
					1,988	618

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky still becomes the best player of the Crosby/Ovechkin era by FAR - but he's not pushing the consistent 200 point seasons. If anything, it might slightly overstate Gretzky's just a tad as well, since the disparity between the 10th best producer and 1st seems to be a lot smaller in general nowadays, due to the larger talent pool overall (harder to differentiate).

This all makes sense, and high-160s makes sense as a rough benchmark for Modern Gretzky considering the general decline in scoring. Of course other factors play in — there are simply more teams (which means more team-leading scorers, which leads to more outliers), points are distributed differently up and down the lineup, G:A ratio has changed slightly, etc. We can cut the numbers so fine that it’s easy to forget we’re still just guessing what a guy might do.

Even though the high-160s sounds right, there’s a little voice in the back of my head that says “unless he decides he really wants 200…”

 

[Lolonegoal]

Nah, not really given all gretzkys high goal scoring seasons came right after massive expansion when league scoring was off the rails in the 80s

Yup.

For reference, Gretzky's 92 goal season was 81-82 , the biggest peak since 1943-44. He played until 1999 but never hit 50 after 1989. He also only averaged 24 goals a season in the 90s.

 

[wetcoast]

He's about to turn 36yo and needs 164 goals just to tie Gretzky.

If he matches the NHL goal scoring record at each age for the next 4 seasons, he'll score exactly 164 goals.

Age	G-record	Player	Year
36	48	Selanne	2007
37	40	Bucyk	1973
38	37	Hull	2003
39	39	Howe	1968

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Even for a guy who scores goals like Ovi does, this seems extremely unlikely as both Bucyk and /Howe did it in weaker expansion years.

 

[wetcoast]

I almost don’t blame people. It’s hard to fathom that kind of production when the only time you’ve seen it happen is in an EA Sports video game.

Even the stats breakdown show exactly how dominant he was in his breakout 212 point season.

Scroll down to the bottom to see how he did against all NHL teams.

Wayne Gretzky 1981-82 Splits | Hockey-Reference.com

His worst performances were against the Bruins and Leafs were he had 5 points in 3 games against each team.

I remember seeing him play and think man this guy isn't even human.

 

[T REX]

How about 4 on 4 PPs and 3 on 3 OTs as well? Could you imagine Gretzky, Kurri and Coffey out one shift then Messier, Anderson, Huddy the next.

Courtesy of Wikipedia…


The Gretzky rule

In June 1985, as part of a package of five rule changes to be implemented for the 1985–86 season, the NHL Board of Governors decided to introduce offsetting penalties, where neither team lost a man when coincidental penalties were called. The effect of calling offsetting penalties was felt immediately in the NHL, because during the early 1980s, when the Gretzky-era Oilers entered a four-on-four or three-on-three situation with an opponent, they frequently used the space on the ice to score one or more goals.[77][78] Gretzky held a press conference one day after being awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy, criticizing the NHL for punishing teams and players who previously benefited. The rule change became known as "the Gretzky rule."[77][79] The rule was reversed for the 1992–93 season.[80]

What a great post.

The freaking great one.

immortal

 

[604]

View attachment 459416
Yup.

For reference, Gretzky's 92 goal season was 81-82 , the biggest peak since 1943-44. He played until 1999 but never hit 50 after 1989. He also only averaged 24 goals a season in the 90s.

Gretz had a debilitating back injury from a Gary Sutter cross-check that coincides with his reduction in scoring.

Lemieux coming out of a three year retirement in the dead puck era, 2000-01 - 76 points in 43 games, really showed how head and shoulders him and Gretz were above the rest.

 

[tapi]

Sounds like the Caps are willing to sacrifice the success of the team to enable the possibility for Ovi to overtake Gretzky. Does not bode well for their chances at success, but it is understandable given Ovi's long tenure as a team icon.

 

[Mubiki]

This is why I'm just meh about it. It's gonna feed feed feed Ovi time. Kind of like an aging batter going for HR record and playing DH with 10 at bats every game.
The more I read about this, the lesser I hope he gets there.

Not any worse than Gretzky forgetting to play defense for a decade.

 

[NORiculous]

OV should be #2 in two years. We will see what happens after that.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Lemieux coming out of a three year retirement in the dead puck era, 2000-01 - 76 points in 43 games, really showed how head and shoulders him and Gretz were above the rest.

Yeah, not really.

Lemieux was outscored by his linemate in the games that he actually bothered to play in, and he was unable to sustain it as evidenced by his reducing PPG and GPG over time to the point where in his last 6 games he had 3 assists and zero goals. Despite owning the team, playing 24-25 minutes a game, and firing anyone who didn't constantly pass him the puck, Lemieux never led the NHL in anything after age 31.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah, not really.

Lemieux was outscored by his linemate in the games that he actually bothered to play in, and he was unable to sustain it as evidenced by his reducing PPG and GPG over time to the point where in his last 6 games he had 3 assists and zero goals. Despite owning the team, playing 24-25 minutes a game, and firing anyone who didn't constantly pass him the puck, Lemieux never led the NHL in anything after age 31.

Lol, he retired until he turned 35.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

While Leonsis has always been a fanboy owner, technically, helping Ovi beat the record could also involve dealing him to a contender for draft picks at some point.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yeah, not really.

Lemieux was outscored by his linemate in the games that he actually bothered to play in, and he was unable to sustain it as evidenced by his reducing PPG and GPG over time to the point where in his last 6 games he had 3 assists and zero goals. Despite owning the team, playing 24-25 minutes a game, and firing anyone who didn't constantly pass him the puck, Lemieux never led the NHL in anything after age 31.

His linemate, meaning a 28 year old Jagr? One of the most dominant wingers of all time, winning his third consecutive scoring title? That doesn’t seem like much of a negative against a 35-year-old who hasn’t played in four years…

 

[604]

Yeah, not really.

Lemieux was outscored by his linemate in the games that he actually bothered to play in, and he was unable to sustain it as evidenced by his reducing PPG and GPG over time to the point where in his last 6 games he had 3 assists and zero goals. Despite owning the team, playing 24-25 minutes a game, and firing anyone who didn't constantly pass him the puck, Lemieux never led the NHL in anything after age 31.

The fact that he came back into the league after being retired for several years and put up a PPG that was crazy relative to anyone else is amazing.

For the record Lemieux scored at a 1.77 PPG pace despite running out of steam at the end and not really being able to skate very well any more.

Jagr, who led the league in scoring, scored at a 1.49 pace. If Jagr outscored a 1.77 PPG when Lemieux played with him, from his usual pace which would be around 1.25-1.30 without Lemieux, that makes Lemieux's contribution even more impressive.

I guess that's not impressive to you but I am prepared to disregard your opinion due to the facts above.

Wayne and Mario were just a crazy amount better than everyone else.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The fact that he came back into the league after being retired for several years and put up a PPG that was crazy relative to anyone else is amazing.

For the record Lemieux scored at a 1.77 PPG pace despite running out of steam at the end and not really being able to skate very well any more.

Jagr, who led the league in scoring, scored at a 1.49 pace. If Jagr outscored a 1.77 PPG when Lemieux played with him, from his usual pace which would be around 1.25-1.30 without Lemieux, that makes Lemieux's contribution even more impressive.

I guess that's not impressive to you but I am prepared to disregard your opinion due to the facts above.

Wayne and Mario were just a crazy amount better than everyone else.

I didn't say it's not impressive, but I'm not going to base entire judgements of this generation vs that generation on an unsustainable half season.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

To save anyone from suffering through too much waiting - it’s not happening.

 

[Toene]

Looks like they reversed the rule just in time for Mario's prime, yet removed it when Wayne was in his.


Gretzky is the greatest bar none. Changing rules to stop the guy. Cmon man that shit is just cartoonish.

Chalk up another one for the Great One.

Just like they changed the PP rules when the greatest dynasty of all-time (MTL 1955-60) was wrecking havoc.