Olympics: Team Russia 2022

[Fantomas]

Basically it's simple. Pray that Malkin and Kuznetsov aren't ill or injured.

 

[MaxV]

Shipachyov absolutely has the talent to play at a best-on-best tournament, but it needs to be in a specific role.

There were a lot of reasons behind Shipachyov's situation with Vegas not working out, not his talent. There was a poll thread before the 17-18 season on who would project better to NHL, Dadonov or Shipachyov. To me, it was a very easy answer, and it had nothing to do with the difference in talent (there was none). Dadonov has already played in NHL before, was younger and was projected to play on a line with MUCH better players. I know this might come as a shock to some people, but SITUATION MATTERS. It's not just stats.

Shipachyov is limited to playing in a specific role with specific line-mates. On a team that can't offer that to him, it won't work out. But I actually think that Team Russia might be able to offer that to him. This is magnified by the fact that Kuznetsov might be barred from participating in the tournament.

A top 6 Center role playing with likes of Kucherov, Ovechkin, Panarin, etc might be available. BTW, he has shown some excellent chemistry with Panarin, Gusev and Dadonov before.

He has had some very strong tournaments in Team Russia uniform. It came with him playing in a specific role with specific line-mates.

 

[MaxV]

One interesting player whose name I would like to throw into the hat is Sergei Andronov. No, he is not a top player. No, he is not a great player on paper. But I do think that his game could compliment the skilled wingers on this team well.

He is a very good skater, strong defensively and knows how to cause havoc in front of the net. He isn't the sort of player that will drive the play for the line, but he can certainly be a very good passenger. He has shown that before in Team Russia uniform.

His North-South game is very similar to Ivan Telegin, who was a surprise addition to Russia's World Cup roster but ended up tied for team lead in points.

 

[NatusVincere]

Basically it's simple. Pray that Malkin and Kuznetsov aren't ill or injured.

I thought he is not allowed to play? I would go with something like this:

Svechnikov - Malkin - Kaprizov
Panarin - Shipachev - Kucherov
Ovechkin - Barbashev - Guryanov
Gusev - Datsyuk - Tarasenko

Someone should just ask!

Orlov - Provorov
Gavrikov - Sergachev
Zaitsev - Romanov

Vasilevski
Shestyorkin
Varlamov

 

[Fantomas]

I thought he is not allowed to play?

Oh, because of the drugs? Someone should check on that.

 

[NatusVincere]

Oh, because of the drugs? Someone should check on that.

Just in case, as for now Kuznetsov's ban expires only in 2023.

 

[Fantomas]

Well, shoite.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Why would a proven player stay and try proving it in a bad org that lies to him and overall has no idea what to make of him?

The expansion team that's already a perennial Stanley Cup favorite since joining the league?

 

[Coldplay619]

Ovechkin-Shipachyov-Svechnikov
Kaprizov-Malkin-Radulov
Panarin-Anisimov-Kucherov
Mikheyev-Barbashyov-Nichushkin

Provorov-Sergachyov
Gavrikov-Orlov
Romanov-Zaitsev
Zadorov

Vasilevsky
Varlamov
Bobrovsky

 

[Atas2000]

The expansion team that's already a perennial Stanley Cup favorite since joining the league?

...and doesn't know how to handle assets. One does not exclude the other.

Also we all know how the league helped them to become that unusual expansion team.

And they are not cup favorites since. Only because of the recency bias and people still giving them too much credit because of that cup run.

That is not the main point though. The crucial part is what I see often enough from allegedly professional NHL scouts and GMs - going for players that are completely wrong for the team system. The VGK might be successful with the coach and the system and all, but Shipachyov was the completely wrong choice for both sides at the time. A finesse puck distributing center on a good ol' canadian style team that is rushing and pushing.

Again, happens all the time and was baffled when I heard Shipachyov signed with Vegas of all teams. Turns out I was right. Square peg into round hole doesn't work most of the time.

If you want the opposite example just look at J.T.Miller with Tampa. He never was the right fit with Tampa's game. He couldn't play to his strengths there, but seems like a good fit with the Canucks.

A player not fitting in right away does not always mean it's the player's fault. The management acting like jerks doesn't help either. In the end they are the idiots who handed out a not the cheapest contract to a player they did not know what to do with.

Shipachyov right now is easily the best player in the KHL and except for the prospects who might get there in the future the only one who I would bet on having success in the NHL. Only after the VGK management debacle he obviously lost any interest in NA adventures.

 

[vorky]

...and doesn't know how to handle assets. One does not exclude the other.

Also we all know how the league helped them to become that unusual expansion team.

And they are not cup favorites since. Only because of the recency bias and people still giving them too much credit because of that cup run.

That is not the main point though. The crucial part is what I see often enough from allegedly professional NHL scouts and GMs - going for players that are completely wrong for the team system. The VGK might be successful with the coach and the system and all, but Shipachyov was the completely wrong choice for both sides at the time. A finesse puck distributing center on a good ol' canadian style team that is rushing and pushing.

Again, happens all the time and was baffled when I heard Shipachyov signed with Vegas of all teams. Turns out I was right. Square peg into round hole doesn't work most of the time.

If you want the opposite example just look at J.T.Miller with Tampa. He never was the right fit with Tampa's game. He couldn't play to his strengths there, but seems like a good fit with the Canucks.

A player not fitting in right away does not always mean it's the player's fault. The management acting like jerks doesn't help either. In the end they are the idiots who handed out a not the cheapest contract to a player they did not know what to do with.

Shipachyov right now is easily the best player in the KHL and except for the prospects who might get there in the future the only one who I would bet on having success in the NHL. Only after the VGK management debacle he obviously lost any interest in NA adventures.

Just adding to the bold part.

That is exactly a big problem with the NHL. Their teams sign all players available or even unavailable from all globe just to skate them in the juniors or the AHL. If you -right now- do not need a player on your everyday NHL roster on ice (as oppose to sitting at press-box), do not sign that player. Even Szemberg agrees with me.

 

[WTFMAN99]

...and doesn't know how to handle assets. One does not exclude the other.

Also we all know how the league helped them to become that unusual expansion team.

And they are not cup favorites since. Only because of the recency bias and people still giving them too much credit because of that cup run.

That is not the main point though. The crucial part is what I see often enough from allegedly professional NHL scouts and GMs - going for players that are completely wrong for the team system. The VGK might be successful with the coach and the system and all, but Shipachyov was the completely wrong choice for both sides at the time. A finesse puck distributing center on a good ol' canadian style team that is rushing and pushing.

Again, happens all the time and was baffled when I heard Shipachyov signed with Vegas of all teams. Turns out I was right. Square peg into round hole doesn't work most of the time.

If you want the opposite example just look at J.T.Miller with Tampa. He never was the right fit with Tampa's game. He couldn't play to his strengths there, but seems like a good fit with the Canucks.

A player not fitting in right away does not always mean it's the player's fault. The management acting like jerks doesn't help either. In the end they are the idiots who handed out a not the cheapest contract to a player they did not know what to do with.

Shipachyov right now is easily the best player in the KHL and except for the prospects who might get there in the future the only one who I would bet on having success in the NHL. Only after the VGK management debacle he obviously lost any interest in NA adventures.

You make trades, you make some bad one. Name a GM and you can find a bad trade.

The league will give Seattle the exact same chance, let's see how they do it. Knights were pretty good last year and having seen them this season, they're probably a top 3-4 team in the league.

Shipachyov doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that he'd be amazing fit though, he came, he didn't do much, he went back to the KHL. I think not unlike Zaropov and Zinoviev etc in a best on best tournament, we would see Ship couldn't handle the quality of competition.

That's my opinion though which is why I said I agree to disagree because I don't think we're going to change one another's opinion on it.

 

[Atas2000]

You make trades, you make some bad one. Name a GM and you can find a bad trade.

The league will give Seattle the exact same chance, let's see how they do it. Knights were pretty good last year and having seen them this season, they're probably a top 3-4 team in the league.

Shipachyov doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that he'd be amazing fit though, he came, he didn't do much, he went back to the KHL. I think not unlike Zaropov and Zinoviev etc in a best on best tournament, we would see Ship couldn't handle the quality of competition.

That's my opinion though which is why I said I agree to disagree because I don't think we're going to change one another's opinion on it.

You operate with completely wild assumptions and flase "facts" though. That is why it is not about opinions.

Shipachyov was never give any chance to succeed in the NHL. How could he do anything? You talk like he has played two seasons on three different teams and couldn't cut it.

Zaripov and Zinoviev couldn't handle what? You are talking about sample sizes of 4 or 5 games. If you still want to use them, then fine, Zaripov and Zinoviev's PPG of 0,5 equals that of Crosby. Tereschenko's is above it. Now what?

This is acompletely absurd approch based ONLY on the premise that KHLers somehow are just bad because reasons. It has nothing to do with Shipachyov.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You operate with completely wild assumptions and flase "facts" though. That is why it is not about opinions.

Shipachyov was never give any chance to succeed in the NHL. How could he do anything? You talk like he has played two seasons on three different teams and couldn't cut it.

Zaripov and Zinoviev couldn't handle what? You are talking about sample sizes of 4 or 5 games. If you still want to use them, then fine, Zaripov and Zinoviev's PPG of 0,5 equals that of Crosby. Tereschenko's is above it. Now what?

This is acompletely absurd approch based ONLY on the premise that KHLers somehow are just bad because reasons. It has nothing to do with Shipachyov.

Crosby had 7 pts in 7GP and then 3 in 6 for a pt/game of 0.769 or 0.77. The 3 points in 6GP involved Canada posting some (historic?) amazing numbers defensively but they sacrificed offense. They also typically don't do as well on the larger ice but they did win gold, so...worth it.

Tarasenko's only Olympic games look like a year where every Russian save for Radulov and Datsyuk sucked;

 

[bert]

Ovechkin won't play before Gusev. Gusev is a known Team Russia warrior and has unparalleled chemistry with Kucherov, Ovechkin is trash at international tournaments. He'll be on the team, but as a figurehead.

HAHAHA

 

[Kshahdoo]

HAHAHA

I'm sure I'll be laughing the last.

 

[Atas2000]

Crosby had 7 pts in 7GP and then 3 in 6 for a pt/game of 0.769 or 0.77. The 3 points in 6GP involved Canada posting some (historic?) amazing numbers defensively but they sacrificed offense. They also typically don't do as well on the larger ice but they did win gold, so...worth it.

Tarasenko's only Olympic games look like a year where every Russian save for Radulov and Datsyuk sucked;

View attachment 394140

Here you go talking about "amazing defence". I can tell you the same about other players. So what? The point is you don't really know mich about those russian players and just go off the assumption that KHLers just don't cut it.

 

[Wings4Life]

Gusev will play no matter what people say. And Ovechkin won't be any more, than a PP specialist. Mind my words.

I wouldn't mind Gusev, and Ovie deserves to be moved down the roster, his play for the NT in recent years has been poor.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Here you go talking about "amazing defence". I can tell you the same about other players. So what? The point is you don't really know mich about those russian players and just go off the assumption that KHLers just don't cut it.

I’m just getting the sense you’re a KHL fan boy at this point.

 

[Atas2000]

I’m just getting the sense you’re a KHL fan boy at this point.

I am just getting a feel you fear the proper discussion.

 

[Atas2000]

I wouldn't mind Gusev, and Ovie deserves to be moved down the roster, his play for the NT in recent years has been poor.

When will you people realize wingers aren't going up and down on that roster. Russia's wingers allow Russia at least 3 full scale scoring lines without any line being better than the other on paper.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think the top winger spots are going to go to guys like Kucherov, Panarin, Ovechkin, Tarasenko, Svechnikov. Thats the clear top 5 for wingers.

Among the other spots though, I think Buchnevich deserves a spot over players like Radulov, Gusev, Dadonov, Kaprizov in that among top six NHL types he's become a really good defensive player and is very good on the PK. Those other guys aren't. He's the leader on his own team in PK minutes, and he's probably the best or second best PK'er on the team. By my count, he's one of only five Russians that PK regularly (Mikheyev, Buchnevich, Barbashev, Namestnikov, Nichushkin), and he's also become better offensively over the years with his numbers going up every season as he's played more.

I can't see how he's left off this team because he's the best overall player of the bottom six options, although I remember they didn't like his play the last time he played in the World Championships. The only real justification I see is if you judge he's worse overall than players like Radulov, Dadonov, Kaprizov, Gusev, and Russia simply picks the best overall players and doesn't worry about roles. He'd be a great role player. Very good all-around player that can fit into more of a defensive role, but he's also a first line forward on his own NHL team and plays big minutes, so it's not as if he's going to be out of place in the important games against the big teams like some of the actual 3rd or 4th liners would be.

 

[Atas2000]

I think the top winger spots are going to go to guys like Kucherov, Panarin, Ovechkin, Tarasenko, Svechnikov. Thats the clear top 5 for wingers.

Among the other spots though, I think Buchnevich deserves a spot over players like Radulov, Gusev, Dadonov, Kaprizov in that among top six NHL types he's become a really good defensive player and is very good on the PK. Those other guys aren't. He's the leader on his own team in PK minutes, and he's probably the best or second best PK'er on the team. By my count, he's one of only five Russians that PK regularly (Mikheyev, Buchnevich, Barbashev, Namestnikov, Nichushkin), and he's also become better offensively over the years with his numbers going up every season as he's played more.

I can't see how he's left off this team because he's the best overall player of the bottom six options, although I remember they didn't like his play the last time he played in the World Championships. The only real justification I see is if you judge he's worse overall than players like Radulov, Dadonov, Kaprizov, Gusev, and Russia simply picks the best overall players and doesn't worry about roles. He'd be a great role player. Very good all-around player that can fit into more of a defensive role, but he's also a first line forward on his own NHL team and plays big minutes, so it's not as if he's going to be out of place in the important games against the big teams like some of the actual 3rd or 4th liners would be.

Gusev is something non-Russians won't understand. It is about his chemistry with Kucherov and the style of play that might not show not only in the NHL, but also specifically on that NJD team, but is exactly what will be expected of him on the NT. Both Radulov and Kaprizov are defensive beasts. Radulov has the age factor, but no way in the Universe is Buchnevich getting even close to be chosen over Kaprizov. Dadonov might fall behind, but has a much better track record on the NT.

 

[Fantomas]

Gusev still has a role to play for a while, before some of the young wings emerge and eclipse him. Buchnevich might work in a grinding role, but Goose is better on the scoring line. I doubt they'll be directly competing for spots.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Gusev is something non-Russians won't understand. It is about his chemistry with Kucherov and the style of play that might not show not only in the NHL, but also specifically on that NJD team, but is exactly what will be expected of him on the NT. Both Radulov and Kaprizov are defensive beasts. Radulov has the age factor, but no way in the Universe is Buchnevich getting even close to be chosen over Kaprizov. Dadonov might fall behind, but has a much better track record on the NT.

When was the last time that Kucherov and Gusev even played a game on the same team? I could buy your argument if you were talking about Kuznetsov and Ovechkin (actual teammates that have played on the same line at times) or a Namestnikov/Kucherov, Panarin/Anisimov situation (former teammates that played on the same line). It's a big gamble for chemistry when Gusev has a tenuous argument, at best, for a roster spot.

If Radulov and Kaprizov are so good defensively then why don't they PK? I don't know of many good defensive players who don't play on the PK. And why wouldn't Buchnevich get close to chosen over Kaprizov? I'm not sure I see your logic. Maybe Kaprizov is a favorite of the Russian federation. Thats not going to help Russia ice the best team if they are catering to guys like Gusev and Kaprizov because of this perceived chemistry or prior favoritism. Kaprizov and Buchnevich are about the same level offensively, Buchnevich has the two-way advantage.