Team rosters - The basic history concept

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by alko, Aug 18, 2017.

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  1. alko

    alko Registered User

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    Lets go very back to past. Wasnt the overall idea of teams so, that they should represent their own town? I mean for Montreal would play only players with citizenship from Montreal.
    Toronto - guys from Toronto

    And so on...
     
  2. DowntownBooster

    DowntownBooster Registered User

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    It wouldn't work so well these days. Think of Arizona.

    :jets
     
  3. ForsbergForever

    ForsbergForever Red Rocket

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    I think stocking sports teams with local talent was originally just a product of how limited in scope league sports were in the late 19th and early 20th century. Prior to circa 1870 there was virtually no such thing as team sports, no hockey, baseball, football, basketball, and even soccer was in its infancy. Teams had no budgets, and very basic management thus certainly no scouting staff to search the world or even the next town over for top talent.
     
  4. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    ^^^ Yeah, that whole concept pretty much died with the rise of the professional game. Even the elite amateur teams were bringing in players from elsewhere to bolster their rosters during the Stanley Cup Challenge era. Players coming in from rural & smaller towns several hundreds of miles away or more in some cases. The only real divides if you want to call it that in Canada at least was French vs English. In Montreal, with English or French Montreal Teams playing against Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg & so on.
     
  5. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Yep. You'd have to look pre-1904. The Montreal vs. Ottawa vs. Winnipeg contests of the first decade of Stanley Cup history is the closest there is to that idea.
     
  6. alko

    alko Registered User

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    How it looks with the Stanley Cup winning teams? How many players were born in particular city? Is there any source about this?
     
  7. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    Not that I'm aware of. The Hockey Hall of Fame's website does however have a section in the Players Search category by Place of Birth.
    Every player who's ever played in the NHL. You can find it here... www.hhof.com/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchCountriesByName.jsp
     
  8. alko

    alko Registered User

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    Penguins in last 2 seasons - 0 on roster. Not only player born in Pennsylvania.

    But i found, that in 2015 Chicago Blackhawks had John Hayden. Born in Chicago.

    Now im too lazy to dig more into it.
     
  9. Leafsdude7

    Leafsdude7 Stand-Up Philosopher

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    Eddie Olczyk played for the Hawks as a Chicago native for a couple stints, IIRC (he definitely had at least one stint there).

    I remember trying to do this in NHL 2002 once, but realized what DowntownBoaster said: I very quickly realized that teams like Florida (who basically had only Dallas Eakins), Phoenix and the California teams (Scott Parker) would never manage a full roster.

    That said, having teams be regional was probably more the idea that was followed in early years of hockey (in today's sense, players on the Leafs would have to come from the GTA, for example), as opposed to being from the named city proper.
     
  10. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Just as a couple of examples, here are the birthplaces of players on the first two NHL teams to win the Stanley Cup:

    1918 Toronto Arenas

    Wide geographic distribution, only one player from the city of Toronto.

    [​IMG]

    * The only inconsistency is Harry Mummery, who was born in Chicago but I knew to correct to Brandon, MB.


    1920 Ottawa Senators

    Much narrower distribution. About half the team was actually from Ottawa. This had at least partly to do with the Sens' more aggressive recruiting of players from local leagues in order to fill out their bench and provide frequent substitutions, a strategy which was just beginning to emerge at the time.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    1919 Canadiens (NHL-winning, no SCF that year)

    - Newsey Lalonde : Cornwall, Ontario
    - Odie Cleghorne, Montréal
    - Didier Pitre, Valleyfield, Québec
    - Jack MacDonald, Québec
    - Joe Hall, Millwich, UK
    - Joe Malone, Québec
    - Louis Berlinguette, Ste-Angélique, Québec
    - Bert Corbeau, Penetanguishene, Ontario
    - Billy Coutu, North Bay, Ontario
    - Amos Arbour, Waubaushene, Ontario
    - Billy Bell, Lachine, Qc
    - Fred Doherty, Norwood, Ontario
    - Georges Vezina, Chicoutimi, Québec

    Ramblings :

    - Bell, Cleghorn are from Montréal/the Island
    - Pitre is born out of the island, not that far from Montréal,
    - Joe Hall is born in the UK and is thus a special case.
    - Lalonde is born in Cornwall. There was no high-level team in Cornwall. I don't know the transportation arrangements of that era. Too lazy to check, but probably closer to Montréal than to Ottawa. And a perfect smuggling spot, too.
    - Mcdonald, Malone started their ECAHA career in Québec and followed to the NHA. When there was no Québec team left, they moved to Montréal, which makes sense on a geographical perspective (and.. errhhhmm... on other perspectives, too)
    - That is different from Vezina : Chicoutimi is quite a bit closer to Québec than to Montréal (if anything, Québec is kindof midway between Chicoutimi and Montréal by modern transportation arrangements), but Vezina spent his whole career in Montréal.
    - Louis Berlinquette would've been closer to Ottawa than to Montréal I guess, but either way, the difference isn't significant.
    - Corbeau and Arbour are born on the Georgian Bay shore, not that far from Simcoe Lake. Ottawa and Toronto are closer, and Corbeau was Montreal's first team.
    - Coutu is born in North Bay, which is definitely closer to Ottawa than to any other NHA team (Ottawa is on the way to Montreal from North Bay).
    - Fred Doherty is a pure journeyman so I didn't bother.

    - Fun fact : Malone's full name on the French Wikipedia page is different than his name on the English Wikipedia page. His first name is used on the French page (so it's actually the page of Maurice Malone), and his second (out of 4) name is used in English (so it's the page of Joe Malone). I don't know what to say about this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  12. tinyzombies

    tinyzombies Registered User

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    I think Malone's mother was French. He was bilingual, I know that. What are you hinting at about his move to Montreal?
     
  13. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    First sentence : Indeed. It's just odd that a person's name differs on two different languages of the same site.

    Second sentence : Just inserted a tidbit on my personnal preferences. Nothing relevant or important.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  14. overpass

    overpass Registered User

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    It's just the North American way to go where the money is instead of staying in your hometown. North American professional sports have been this way from the beginning.

    Senior amateur was the place to watch the best locals many years ago. Amateur hockey isn't what it used to be, now that there are so many options for players to play professionally.
     

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