Team Canada WJC (considering Can/Russia series)

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Blind Gardien, Dec 2, 2004.

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  1. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Now that we've had this extra evaluation stage of seeing the CHL all-star teams against the Russian Selects, perhaps we can re-re-visit the eternal question of how Team Canada might shape up now.

    Looking back at the default roster as we know it:
    FORWARDS
    Dawes-Richards-Stewart
    F2-Carter-Getzlaf
    F3A-Crosby-F3B
    Colliton-Dixon-F4
    F5

    This shows approximately 5 rosters spots open, if you assume that all the incumbents will be back (and I can only really see Dixon being potentially questioned in there).

    On top of this, however, we know that Patrice Bergeron gets one of the spots. Here's what I'm seeing:
    F3B = Bergeron

    F2/F3A = two of: Bernier, Perry, Fehr, Ladd, Horton (if he's allowed). Personally, I think any of them would be suitable choices. I like Perry on the 2nd line, and I would be happy with Bernier or especially Fehr playing with Crosby. (I don't think Perry and Crosby would gel as well together, as they both need the puck).

    F4 = Meyer/Bolland: Meyer has really convinced me.
    F5 = Chipchura/Bolland: as the extra forward, like Colliton was before, getting a guy who has good character and will be expected to step up to a leadership role next year might be a good idea. So I lean towards Chipchura. There will be more talented players who get cut or aren't invited, but I'd invest the spare spot on Chipchura (hopefully, objectively. :) ).

    DEFENSE
    Phaneuf-Weber
    Seabrooke-Coburn
    Burns-Belle
    D7-D8?

    I almost hope that the team could risk dropping Burns from this tourney. But realistically, it can't happen, and he does give good insurance with the versatility to play forward too in the event of injury. As for Belle, I'm not sold on him either, but he sure fit in well on last year's team, however he might look otherwise this season.

    That means that one or two D positions will remain for: Green, Syvret, Barker to battle for. Barker has to be there, IMO. And as much as I like Syvret, if there's another spot, I give it to Green

    GOAL
    18G - Shantz, Dubnyk, Glass
    19G - Nastiuk, Munce, Beauchemin

    In goal... well... Shantz, Munce, Nastiuk, Beauchemin, Dubnyk, Glass... choose one 18-year old and one 19-year old, and frankly I don't think it makes very much difference which ones they are.

    So in summary, if Sutter is serious about only inviting 28 players to camp, then I think this would be the camp composition, with the players in italics fighting for spots:

    F (15+1): Dawes, Richards, Stewart, Getzlaf, Carter, Crosby, Colliton, Dixon, Bergeron, Perry, Bernier, Fehr, Meyer, Ladd, Chipchura ( + maybe Horton).

    D(9): Phaneuf, Weber, Seabrooke, Coburn, Burns, Belle, Barker, Green, Syvret

    G(4): Shantz, Dubnyk, Nastiuk, Beauchemin
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2004
  2. BuppY

    BuppY xGoodwillx

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    Bergeron..........Carter........Getzlaf
    Dawes.............Richards.....Stewart
    Perry...............Crosby........Fehr
    Chipchura.........Colliton......Dixon


    Phaneuf.......Weber
    Seabrooke....Coburn
    Burns...........Green
    .........Syvret


    Shantz
    Nastiuk
     
  3. SeLaine

    SeLaine Registered User

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    Fehr Crosby Bergeron
    Dawes Richards Stewart
    Ladd Carter Getzlaf
    Dixon Stone Colliton

    Phaneuf Green
    Coburn Seabrooke
    Barker Weber
    Burns

    Beachemin
    Shantz

    I'm not sure if they will use the last roster spot on a 13th forward(either Chipchura or Bolland) or if they pick another defenceman(Belle Syrvet) and use Burns in a swing role.
     
  4. Ticallion961

    Ticallion961 Registered User

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    If Stone and Fehr both make it, i assume they'll play together
     
  5. Johnny

    Johnny Registered User

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    Regarding Chipchura/Bolland, Bolland could very well make the team for the very same reason in which you lean towards Chipchura. Both guys are 86's who will likely be a part of next years team... In fact I could very well see Bolland stepping up and playing a important role for next years team, much the same way as you do for Chipchura. Both players happen to bring alot to the table, so in my mind you go with the best player available at the moment, and forget about factoring anything relating to next year into the equation. Bolland to me wins out due to his offensive skills that in all honesty wouldn't look of out place on the first line (not saying he will be a first liner on this stacked team by any means) to go along with being able to contribute as you would expect a 13nth forwad to. Kill penalties, bring energy, forecheck tenaciously, etc.

    Other then that, the team looks good, though I would throw Dixon into the mix of guys battling it out for a spot.

    .
     
  6. HabLover

    HabLover Registered User

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    There will not be 8 D-men on the roster. I don't think Burns has been confirmed yet either? Although I think he will be released to play by Minnesota.

    I think Ryan Stone has a chance as a 4th line guy or the 13th forward. I really like Macarthur and Meyer, but I don't think Ladd will make it. Eric Fehr should earn a spot on the 3rd line??, but let's not forget about Alexandre Picard and MA Pouliot who should at least earn invites to camp. Pouliot would be a nice fit for the 3rd line as well.

    There are just so many to choose from and just so few spots! Canada will not be selecting an '86 born player just so they have someone returning for next year. Hockey Canada wants a gold medal bad and they will take the best players, regardless if they can return next year or not. I'm not saying I don't like Chipchura, Bolland, etc. but there just so many '85's to select from.
     
  7. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Well, actually, I listed them both in that spot for the very reason that I see them both as equally viable candidates. I ultimately leaned to Chipchura because of the reports from the summer eval camp, probably tinged with a bit of Habs homerism. :)
    Actually, honestly, I would figure things for next year into the equation. So much of this team will have graduated, it's not funny. Having at least the backup goalie and a spare forward with big leadership skills carrying (hopefully) a gold medal around the room next year are important factors for the program, IMHO. (Crosby and Barker could even be in the NHL).
    Agreed, on the ice, I think Bolland is more versatile and more talented than Chipchura. But, without in any way disparaging Bolland's own excellent character, my impression is that Chipchura is one of those born leader types who would be a more important component of the team if he just stays in a 13th forward role and never steps on the ice. But I freely admit that I base that on reputations and hearsay only, so I don't make any real claims there. I'm happy with either one on the team. But I would go out of my way to make sure it's an '86 guy in the spare spot, and not just give it to a Bernier or Pouliot or Ladd or Perry as a consolation prize for not making the top-12.
    In fairness, me too. I dunno if Hockey Canada is that cut-throat, though, as Dixon was an adequate footsoldier last year.
     
  8. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Stone or Meyer is fair enough. I though about Picard too, but since he wasn't in the Can/Russian series due to injury, I ultimately left him out of the analysis. I think on pure talent and merit he would have grabbed a spot, and he's also versatile enough like Stone and Meyer that he can even play the 4th line role. If he's healthy, he's a fair invite to camp.

    As for Pouliot... no, I just don't think he really cuts it when compared to these guys. He played well, and of course he wouldn't hurt the team in any way if he was there, but I wouldn't consider him. Ladd is doubtful for me as well, but I sort of assume he earned a look-see with his Western connections. And Fehr... I like the idea of him playing with Crosby. If Roussin is good for as many goals as he's getting, I shudder to think what Fehr would do given the same opportunity.
     
  9. Any chance Brule will make it?
     
  10. markov`

    markov` Registered User

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    I think some player who made the team last year aren't sure to make it this year. I'm not so sure Dixon, Colliton and Belle will all make the team again.
     
  11. trahans99

    trahans99 Registered User

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    I haven't seen Chipura play, but Bolland is one hell of a fiesty kid. He is a monster (ala Pierre McGuire) on the PK, he fast, gritty and has some offensive skills this year that he didn't have last year (when he scored 37 goals).
    Its probably a toss up, but i'd choose Bolland as he has more upside for the next years WJC (in terms of 1st/2nd line potential on Canada Jrs).
     
  12. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Colliton is a pretty safe bet IMO. Similar type of player to Chipchura from what I've seen of him but he's further along in his development. I think he's a lock. VERY impressive in the summer camp. His line dominated in several of the games I saw. Very impressed by what I've seen of him in Prince Albert games I've seen as well.

    Dixon is the most likely to be dropped IMO. Saw Dixon in the summer camp and he didn't overwhelm me. With a deeper team this year I think he might be in tough.

    Belle looked pretty good to me in the summer camp. He's very strong, very fast. Slim chance he doesn't make it but I tend to think he'll be there.
     
  13. BuppY

    BuppY xGoodwillx

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    I agree with you on Colliton and Dixon but I think Belle might not make and maybe dropped in favour of a guy like Mike Green, who has really impressed a lot of people.
     
  14. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Could be. Do we know how many d-men there will be? If there's only 7 then I could see Phaneuf, Coburn, Seabrooke, Barker, Weber, Green and Burns edging him out. I liked what I saw of Rogers in the summer camp as well. Incredible deep defense this year.
     
  15. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    Phaneuf, Coburn, Seabrook and Belle were all there last year. If they take three more, you get Burns, Weber, Barker, Green,Syvret
    fighting for the three spots.(There were only 7 blueliners last year.) I would have to say that although I like both Green and Syvret, they would be the two left off this team.
     
  16. Johnny

    Johnny Registered User

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    Honestly, I kind of figured there was a touch of Habs homerism in there, it's all good.

    I have no problems with figuring things into next year in a sense....If it was between two comparable players, one a 85 and one a 86, both with no real advantage other then a one year age difference, I would probably go with the 86 just for the experience gaining factor for the following year... However my point is, with both players being 86's, both having the opporunity to come back, it's really not a issue, the issue really just comes down to who is the better player right now. It least in my mind.

    I think really essentially what it comes down to for I is Bollands offensive skills... The 4rth line guys are going to get their opportunities regardless if thats what they are there for or not.. The opportunites will always come from hard work which you expect from your 4rth line... Bolland is a guy who doesn't need many chances to put the puck away.. Often times the 4rth liners will get their chances, but will be unable to finish... Missed opportunites often come back to haunt a team... when you are able to get your 4rth line to chip in a little O, it really will increase the overall chances.

    Character, while it may not be the easiest thing to debate, nor am I lookng for a real debate on it, just expressing thoughts... Generally players who excel in the often overlooked areas of the game, the dirty work in other words, usually character plays a big part in why they excel in these areas. They are wllling to get their nose dirty and do whatever is asked of them, basically a big part of what being a character player is all about... all can be found in both Chipchura and Bolland... While Bolland may not be regarded as having quite the character as Chipchura (tough to really measure) I'm sure his character is good nonetheless (not implying that you are knocking his character in any way)... So again essentially what it comes down to is whether or not Chipchura's possible advantage in character is enough of a gap to make up the difference in the two players... Or is their enough of a gap between Bollands possible advantage as a scoring threat to make up the difference... and really, answers to both these questions are going to be quite subjective. So I guess again what it comes down to is you cant go wrong with either guy... even if we all prefer one over the other, I'm sure we can manage to live just fine with the other.

    On another note, I will admit to overlooking Stone, and he could be a guy who I would take over Dixon, Chipchura, and Bolland at this point... Unfortunately last night I was dead tired from work, tried to stay up and watch the game, but couldn't. Lucky for me sportsnet is replaying the game at 2 eastern, so I'll get a better chance to see these guys from the dub play today, as well as tonight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2004
  17. HabLover

    HabLover Registered User

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    There will only be 7 D-men on the final roster, as has been the case for the last 10 years or more. The only exception could be if Burns is released to play and they put him at forward and use him back on the PP with Barker, Green, Seabrook, etc. I don't think that is likely tho' as he has been playing D all year in the AHL. Does anyone know what position Burns played at the summer camp?

    There is no way in hell Shawn Belle doesn't make Team Canada! The guy is a monster out there, can skate, has just as much offense as the other returnees and has tons of experience with the National progam. Not a chance he doesn't make it! Barker, Green and Burns are more than likely to round out the D, with Weber another strong possibility depending on the Burns situation. Syrvet is the only other possibility with perhaps an injury coming into play.

    Colliton is a lock to be back and Dixon will be there as well. Dixon may be the only possibility to be knocked off the team, but someone will really have to come in and knock the socks off Team Canada's management. There are guys who could do it, but with Dixon's experience of being there already and past U17/18 experience he SHOULD be there.
     
  18. Enoch

    Enoch This is my boomstick

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    If Sutter continues to use the Weber/Phaneuf pairing......I shudder to think of the bodies that will be hitting the ice.

    :shakehead
     
  19. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

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    Those damn Sutters. :shakehead They are not very nice.
     
  20. Brock

    Brock Registered User

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    I'm pretty much in complete agreeance with your roster.

    I like Perry on the line with Carter and Getzlaf, as well as Bergeron and Crosby playing together with a bigger, net crashing forward, such as Bernier (would be my choice) or Fehr.

    Ideally, I'd love for the 13th forward to be someone who is a wildcard offensively, so that if someone that is playing on the scoring lines isn't working out (such as Perry or Bernier), then we can switch things up effectively, perhaps someone like Travis Zajac could be a complete wildcard for that position.

    I also believe that Burns is going to play a very significant role defensively for team Canada. I'd love to see him paired with Dion Phaneuf on defense. But thats just my opinion.
     
  21. markov`

    markov` Registered User

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    Here are my candidates for the open spots:

    There are five open spots on offense. Assuming Horton will make it, only him and Bergeron are locks. Now for the 3 last spots, Sutter is going to go with at least two grinders. So it will be two of Chipchura, Bernier, Picard and Brule. For the last spot, one of Fehr or Perry. I like Fehr better, he's just an unreal scorer and if he plays with a playmaker, he could be the best goalscorer for Canada.

    So my bet for the last 5 spots up front: Patrice Bergeron, Nathan Horton, Steve Bernier, Kyle Chipchura, Eric Fehr.

    IMO on defense there are 2 spots open (Phaneuf, Weber, Coburn, Burns and Seabrook being the top 5), Belle doesn't have his place on the team. Never liked the guy, I would be surprise if he makes it to the NHL. I would select Cameron Barker and Mike Green, but maybe Syvret could make it too.

    I don't have a clue for the goalies though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2004
  22. HabLover

    HabLover Registered User

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    Markov....get a clue!! Belle will be there and Weber is not a sure thing, but it should be him, Burns and Barker. If Burns is not released by Minnesota or plays forward, then Mike Green will be the guy. If there is an injury then there won't be a numbers problem.

    Also, Bernier and Chipchura do not make this team, bottom line!
     
  23. Kevin Forbes

    Kevin Forbes Registered User

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    two things to add to the scrum

    Rogers' ankle problems probably will keep him out of effectively competing for a spot or playing for Canada. He won't be in the defensive shuffle.

    Perry and Getzlaf showed very good chemistry when they played on the same line in Anaheim during the rookie tournament.
     
  24. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

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    Zajac doesn't get a sniff......? 9 goals in 16 games is pretty impressive in college hockey.
     
  25. Johnny

    Johnny Registered User

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    A guy like Zajac will get overlooked by the fans due to playing in the NCAA... The guys from the CHL have been under the spotlight the last couple weeks, therefore are more fresh in peoples minds. Can you really blame the guy for not throwing Zajac in there, with a) the lack of exposure to the NCAA in Canada, and b) the insane amount of depth there is which makes it easier to as well leave someone off who may be a strong canidate. I for one would not feel your boy is being snubbed by a poster on a message board.... Now if hockey Canada were to not give him a sniff, then I could see a case for feeling he isn't quite getting his due consideration.
     
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