Prospect Info: Team Board Mock Draft

Who should the Oilers Draft #8

  • Ville Heinola, D, Lukko (Liiga)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spencer Knight, G, USNTP (BC Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matthew Robertson, D, Edmonton (WHL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ryan Suzuki, C, Barrie (OHL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cam York, D, USNTP (BC Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    160
  • Poll closed .

PKSpecialist

Registered User
Feb 6, 2010
1,750
838
It's not that they've been wrong before, it's that they've had some really bad misses high in the draft. Like it's one thing if people would think that Krebs will be better than Zegras and then Zegras turns out to be a star while Krebs "only" becomes a 2nd/3rd liner, or whatever. That stuff you can't really predict accurately. But say if I would put Alex Vlasic in my top10 because he's 6'6 and can skate and have him ranked ahead of guys like York and Byram. If he then busts and the other two have solid NHL careers, would that just be chalked up to me just "being wrong", or is it a completely egregious error on my part to begin with? That's essentially my point.
Right, but your argument is based on your opinion being right. You are talking about Podkolzin as a 17 year old who completely dominated the Hlinka, played very well at the Jr. A's, didn't get a lot of ice at the World Juniors, then is playing well but not producing in the U18's, and basically saying "I told you so". So because he isn't performing at this tournament like he did at the Hlinka you are right, but in the next breath you are saying that no one watches him in Russia, all people are basing their opinions off of is international tournaments and that isn't right because its a small sample. He was the most dominant player in his first international tournament, an all-star in the next, then struggles to produce in his last one and all of a sudden the 11 games he played in the first two tournaments don't count, just the last 4 in the most recent one matters.

I understand where you are coming from. You are trying to validate your position, and like Cozens earlier, you can find video that show certain things, but here's where I'm coming from. Think of Leon Draisaitl, if I cherry pick some of the videos of him not backchecking, and forcing bad passes that aren't there when his team is pressing, and post them on a forum for a Florida Panthers fan(example only) who has only ever seen his stats, they would probably have a pretty poor opinion of the player. That is completely ignoring the fact that when he's on his game he dominates the game, and that he's on his game more often than he's not on his game.

This is of course just an example, and we are not going to agree on Podkolzin, because as I have stated several times, he's number 3 on my board. He has a pro level shot, he is one of the draft's most powerful skaters, he is very good with the puck in traffic, he dominates board play, he has an extremely high compete level at both ends of the ice.

As an aside, since you brought up Krebs, there are a lot of scouts out there who see him as a 2nd/3rd line tweener like you described. They question his skill level a lot and wonder if it's his compete and ice-time/oppotunity that allowed him to produce like he did. One conversation I had with a scout compared him to Jakob Pelletier, and that he didn't think he would have a huge offensive role in the NHL, more as a third line checking type player because the skill wasn't there. Not saying I agree 100%, just passing on some information.
 

Zaddy

Registered User
Feb 8, 2013
13,058
5,850
Right, but your argument is based on your opinion being right. You are talking about Podkolzin as a 17 year old who completely dominated the Hlinka, played very well at the Jr. A's, didn't get a lot of ice at the World Juniors, then is playing well but not producing in the U18's, and basically saying "I told you so". So because he isn't performing at this tournament like he did at the Hlinka you are right, but in the next breath you are saying that no one watches him in Russia, all people are basing their opinions off of is international tournaments and that isn't right because its a small sample. He was the most dominant player in his first international tournament, an all-star in the next, then struggles to produce in his last one and all of a sudden the 11 games he played in the first two tournaments don't count, just the last 4 in the most recent one matters.

I understand where you are coming from. You are trying to validate your position, and like Cozens earlier, you can find video that show certain things, but here's where I'm coming from. Think of Leon Draisaitl, if I cherry pick some of the videos of him not backchecking, and forcing bad passes that aren't there when his team is pressing, and post them on a forum for a Florida Panthers fan(example only) who has only ever seen his stats, they would probably have a pretty poor opinion of the player. That is completely ignoring the fact that when he's on his game he dominates the game, and that he's on his game more often than he's not on his game.

This is of course just an example, and we are not going to agree on Podkolzin, because as I have stated several times, he's number 3 on my board. He has a pro level shot, he is one of the draft's most powerful skaters, he is very good with the puck in traffic, he dominates board play, he has an extremely high compete level at both ends of the ice.

As an aside, since you brought up Krebs, there are a lot of scouts out there who see him as a 2nd/3rd line tweener like you described. They question his skill level a lot and wonder if it's his compete and ice-time/oppotunity that allowed him to produce like he did. One conversation I had with a scout compared him to Jakob Pelletier, and that he didn't think he would have a huge offensive role in the NHL, more as a third line checking type player because the skill wasn't there. Not saying I agree 100%, just passing on some information.

I didn't mean to have a big discussion like this with the comments I just made at all. I was just saying that Podkolzin being consensus 3rd overall doesn't mean much to me (and a couple of other guys in this thread it seems).

As I've said many times before, I just call it how I see it. Even if he did put up points that doesn't mean that I would change my mind on him either FWIW. I often criticize players even when they have "consensus" good tournaments, like Pulju at WJC and more recently Cozens at Hlinka. I see some red flags in Podkolzins game and I see a player who quite clearly is being outplayed by pretty much all the prospects ranked in the 4-12 range behind, and that matches up everything I've seen from all of these players throughout the year.

And again I don't know why you bring up the Draisaitl example, or "cherry-picking". How many sequences would I have to show you of Podkolzin doing these things for it not to be cherry-picking? Do I need to compile a 10 minute video of clips like this or what? Do you really believe I'm so dishonest that I would just randomly hate on players for no reason and then cherry pick one or two clips to back up my opinion?

Draisaitl is actually an awful comparison anyway because even if someone would cherry pick his bad plays, it would be impossible to hide his amazing hockey IQ, vision and passing for anyone looking at footage on him. That's not the case with a guy like Podkolzin however. At best you'd probably see highlights of him dangling through multiple guys and firing bullets. But you won't see many cerebral plays coming out of him or examples of high-end playmaking skills or vision.

So let me challenge you instead. Put together a video of all the things you think Podkolzin does right and at a very high level. Because so far I'm the only one providing video evidence of my statements and it's getting lame to be called out when I'm the one putting in the most effort in supporting my claims.

Also no hard feeling towards you @PKSpecialist, but I just wanted to make my stance clear on this.
 

PKSpecialist

Registered User
Feb 6, 2010
1,750
838
I didn't mean to have a big discussion like this with the comments I just made at all. I was just saying that Podkolzin being consensus 3rd overall doesn't mean much to me (and a couple of other guys in this thread it seems).

As I've said many times before, I just call it how I see it. Even if he did put up points that doesn't mean that I would change my mind on him either FWIW. I often criticize players even when they have "consensus" good tournaments, like Pulju at WJC and more recently Cozens at Hlinka. I see some red flags in Podkolzins game and I see a player who quite clearly is being outplayed by pretty much all the prospects ranked in the 4-12 range behind, and that matches up everything I've seen from all of these players throughout the year.

And again I don't know why you bring up the Draisaitl example, or "cherry-picking". How many sequences would I have to show you of Podkolzin doing these things for it not to be cherry-picking? Do I need to compile a 10 minute video of clips like this or what? Do you really believe I'm so dishonest that I would just randomly hate on players for no reason and then cherry pick one or two clips to back up my opinion?

Draisaitl is actually an awful comparison anyway because even if someone would cherry pick his bad plays, it would be impossible to hide his amazing hockey IQ, vision and passing for anyone looking at footage on him. That's not the case with a guy like Podkolzin however. At best you'd probably see highlights of him dangling through multiple guys and firing bullets. But you won't see many cerebral plays coming out of him or examples of high-end playmaking skills or vision.

So let me challenge you instead. Put together a video of all the things you think Podkolzin does right and at a very high level. Because so far I'm the only one providing video evidence of my statements and it's getting lame to be called out when I'm the one putting in the most effort in supporting my claims.

Also no hard feeling towards you @PKSpecialist, but I just wanted to make my stance clear on this.
Agreed, Zaddy, this isn’t a personal attack, and I have applauded you in the past in regards to the work you have done on scouting these prospects. I don’t mean the cherry picking comment as an insult either, it is what it is. There are many compilations of Podkolzin’s work out there for everyone to watch, I don’t do so well with technology, so I will not accept your challenge. I will also allow that passing/vision isn’t what Podkolzin’s game is built around. Doesn’t mean he can’t do those things- watch the video compilations of him and there are certainly examples of it. That said, he’s a power winger, a goal scorer, a great stick handler in traffic, utilizes his body well to protect the puck and dominates along the boards. In all honesty, Marian Hossa is the type of player I see when I watch him, and that’s a great player.
 
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ConnorMcMullet

#12 Colby Cave
Jun 10, 2017
10,290
18,008
Agreed, Zaddy, this isn’t a personal attack, and I have applauded you in the past in regards to the work you have done on scouting these prospects. I don’t mean the cherry picking comment as an insult either, it is what it is. There are many compilations of Podkolzin’s work out there for everyone to watch, I don’t do so well with technology, so I will not accept your challenge. I will also allow that passing/vision isn’t what Podkolzin’s game is built around. Doesn’t mean he can’t do those things- watch the video compilations of him and there are certainly examples of it. That said, he’s a power winger, a goal scorer, a great stick handler in traffic, utilizes his body well to protect the puck and dominates along the boards. In all honesty, Marian Hossa is the type of player I see when I watch him, and that’s a great player.
I don't see the Hossa comparison at all. Hossa was great at using his linemates and even deferred to them to much at times. He was also great on the cycle. I don't see Podkolzin as any of those.

Podkolzin's defensive ability will never come anywhere near Hossa's.
 

gordonhught

Registered User
Feb 18, 2009
14,176
13,066
Wasn't Yakupov a great pick though? I wasn't around in those days, but his draft +1 looks solid. From what I can glean off reading posts over the years, his development was handled very poorly.

It's like with JP. I still think he was a great pick, but his development has been handled poorly.

Maybe. Or maybe JP has made it obvious he has no hockey sense. Or, maybe Yakupov only wanted to play a certain way (off to the the goalies left) and waiting for a one-timer.

Other than those fundamental problems, neither player has any responsibility for their development.

JP is a bust by the way. Oilers developed Eberle, Hall, RNH, Nurse, and Drai just fine.

Yakupov was the owners pick (going against the scouts) and I do not think the Oilers really scouted JP. They just assumed he would not be there at 4 and never bothered to have a good look at that player.
 
Last edited:

Zaddy

Registered User
Feb 8, 2013
13,058
5,850
Agreed, Zaddy, this isn’t a personal attack, and I have applauded you in the past in regards to the work you have done on scouting these prospects. I don’t mean the cherry picking comment as an insult either, it is what it is. There are many compilations of Podkolzin’s work out there for everyone to watch, I don’t do so well with technology, so I will not accept your challenge. I will also allow that passing/vision isn’t what Podkolzin’s game is built around. Doesn’t mean he can’t do those things- watch the video compilations of him and there are certainly examples of it. That said, he’s a power winger, a goal scorer, a great stick handler in traffic, utilizes his body well to protect the puck and dominates along the boards. In all honesty, Marian Hossa is the type of player I see when I watch him, and that’s a great player.

Fair post. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this topic :)
 

BoldNewLettuce

Esquire
Dec 21, 2008
28,125
6,967
Canada
If you develop all the players properly you might be able to trade nurse/jones for whichever forward actually can play and replace him with brobizzle.
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
27,330
7,241
British Columbia
I do not think the Oilers really scouted JP. They just assumed he would not be there at 4 and never bothered to have a good look at that player.

I’m pretty convinced of this. We know we were going hard at scouting dmen, and were going to take Sergachev. I’m assuming when Pulju suddenly went from going 2 or 3 to sitting there at 4, we just assumed we had to take him. We all laugh at the teams that interview guys that are projected to go way above them, but this has turned into a clear example of why it’s not actually a crazy thing to do
 
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Ctrain2k

Registered User
Dec 3, 2016
3,768
3,460
Podkolzin all day. He drives offense. He dominates board play. He takes the puck to scoring areas. He outworks his opponents. He plays both ends of the ice. He is exactly what this team needs.

Admittedly the Russian thing does scare me a little bit, but if he was Canadian he would be the consensus pick.
 

LTIR

Registered User
Nov 8, 2013
25,851
12,806
I’m pretty convinced of this. We know we were going hard at scouting dmen, and were going to take Sergachev. I’m assuming when Pulju suddenly went from going 2 or 3 to sitting there at 4, we just assumed we had to take him. We all laugh at the teams that interview guys that are projected to go way above them, but this has turned into a clear example of why it’s not actually a crazy thing to do
So you think Oilers didn't scout Kakko this year?
In a lotto world it makes no senses to claim an organization didn't scout a player because he was too good.
As if Pulju wasn't in the top 5 of ALL GMs lists.
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
27,330
7,241
British Columbia
So you think Oilers didn't scout Kakko this year?
In a lotto world it makes no senses to claim an organization didn't scout a player because he was too good.
As if Pulju wasn't in the top 5 of ALL GMs lists.

I didn’t say that did I? You have to look at everyone, but he wasn’t a realistic option for us. We don’t even have a European scout, and are just generally badly understaffed in terms of scouts. You really think they would have spent an appropriate amount of time scouting him when they’re short staffed, and he’s not likely to be available? I don’t
 

LTIR

Registered User
Nov 8, 2013
25,851
12,806
I didn’t say that did I? You have to look at everyone, but he wasn’t a realistic option for us. We don’t even have a European scout, and are just generally badly understaffed in terms of scouts. You really think they would have spent an appropriate amount of time scouting him when they’re short staffed, and he’s not likely to be available? I don’t
We finished 2nd last that year and up until the lottery were in on Laine,Matthews,Pulju sweepstakes.
We would/should have scouted all 3 of them hard. Fact is that Pulju was a blue chip prospect up until he put on the Oilers jersey.
 

Hasbro

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Apr 1, 2004
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I'm calling an early end to this one. Zegras is running away with it and I have a full schedule tomorrow and won't be able to post a thread until late.
 
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OilerTitanFan

Registered User
Feb 26, 2019
4,614
1,317
Podkolzin all day. He drives offense. He dominates board play. He takes the puck to scoring areas. He outworks his opponents. He plays both ends of the ice. He is exactly what this team needs.
Podkolzin is another project and possible bust like Yakupov and JP. I pass. Rather pick Broberg.
 

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