Prospect Info: Team Board Mock Draft

[AvsWraith]

You think?

Yeah yeah, I know... The Further Adventures of Captain Obvious.

 

[AvsMakar08]

I voted "other" because I expect/hope the Hawks draft Pod and leave Byram for us.

If that's not the case then BPA

I'm mildly intrigued by having our own KGB line

Kovalenko - Kamenev - Podkolzin

Just imagine a year from now, Sakic is sending a private jet to Moscow to pick these 2 up and bring them to Denver. I just hope Sakic knows Kovalenko father. He has an influence and power to make things happen. I hope that Kovalenko will be ready in a year or 2 max.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

The Russian factor does raise concerns for me with Pod, I'll be honest. I saw this translation of an interview from September over on the Hawks board:


Does he want to be in the NHL? Yeah, it's his dream, he's acknowledged that before. But he certainly doesn't sound very keen on the North American lifestyle whatsoever. If, in two years, he doesn't feel he and his game have matured enough, does he refuse to come over? Would Denver be appealing to him, or would he feel more comfortable in a bigger American city he'll no doubt have heard a lot more about in Russia? I don't really want to get involved in that, even if he does turn out to be a more talented player than Dach / Cozens / Turcotte.

I'm probably in the Cozens camp if Byram is gone at #4 (my first choice). A 6'3, right handed, mobile, shoot-first centre is awfully difficult to say no to.

You are talking about him maybe not wanting to come here yet in two years but what about if he does come in two years and he hates it here? Then he goes back after a year and we are left with nothing. No thanks. The stakes are too high. We can't risk to end up with nothing. That pick is too important. The difference between him and the others guys is not big enough to be worth it. The way I look at it is would people prefer aplayer that is equal to 90% of Pod playing for us or a 100% Pod but playing in the KHL for the rest of his career?

 

[cgf]

The Russian factor does raise concerns for me with Pod, I'll be honest. I saw this translation of an interview from September over on the Hawks board:


Does he want to be in the NHL? Yeah, it's his dream, he's acknowledged that before. But he certainly doesn't sound very keen on the North American lifestyle whatsoever. If, in two years, he doesn't feel he and his game have matured enough, does he refuse to come over? Would Denver be appealing to him, or would he feel more comfortable in a bigger American city he'll no doubt have heard a lot more about in Russia? I don't really want to get involved in that, even if he does turn out to be a more talented player than Dach / Cozens / Turcotte.

I'm probably in the Cozens camp if Byram is gone at #4 (my first choice). A 6'3, right handed, mobile, shoot-first centre is awfully difficult to say no to.

Missed this previously, but a few things.

Some of this is lost in the translation & some in the culture; but he's saying that North America doesn't have any major pull for him in the context of explaining why he's not interested in the CHL, not the NHL. The cultural context being that there are many russian kids who grow up worshipping american culture -- like in most countries -- and Pod is clarifying that he's not one of those kids who's dream is to be rich in an american metropolis like New York, SF, Chicago, or LA; as an explanation for why the CHL was never tempting to him.

He's clear about his desire to play in the NHL as soon as he's ready & mature enough for the transition. He evades the question of when that'll be, by pointing to his contract & that he can't know that now...which I can't really disagree with him about...instead, pointing to the expiration of his contract as the time when he'll have to actually make that decision. But he's clear about the NHL being his final goal.

If anything this should be encouraging to the people who are worried about him not wanting to come over unless it's to the Rags / Hawks / Kings / etc., because his desire to play in the NHL is a competitive/professional one, not a lifestyle one

 

[Patagonia]

You are talking about him maybe not wanting to come here yet in two years but what about if he does come in two years and he hates it here? Then he goes back after a year and we are left with nothing. No thanks. The stakes are too high. We can't risk to end up with nothing. That pick is too important. The difference between him and the others guys is not big enough to be worth it. The way I look at it is would people prefer aplayer that is equal to 90% of Pod playing for us or a 100% Pod but playing in the KHL for the rest of his career?

This is one of many questions about a player that lit up the Hlinka Tourney and could be a boom/bust pick. Makar had similar concerns playing in the AJHL and struggled in his 1st season in college. It seems this might have been the right choice, but could the AVs be lucky again?

I agree about the risks being high and to avoid Podkolzin.

 

[AegonLeConqueror]

Voted Turcotte.

If he turns out to be an elite version of ROR, he would be a huge asset.

ROR is already pretty elite isn’t he?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Podkolzin all the way. The Russian stigma is getting out of hand. Anyone taken at 4 is going to have their own question marks and set of demands when they eventually sign.

At the end of the day the org is going to be able to look him in the eye at the combine and ask real questions about his future and go by that rather than a hearsay translated interview from a 17 year old and fanwanked long range intentions from such.

 

[timothy jimothy]

I wouldn't be mad if we ended up with Cozens, but I'm sort of surprised by the huge lead he has over Dach.

 

[Balthazar]

Podkolzin all the way. The Russian stigma is getting out of hand. Anyone taken at 4 is going to have their own question marks and set of demands when they eventually sign.

At the end of the day the org is going to be able to look him in the eye at the combine and ask real questions about his future and go by that rather than a hearsay translated interview from a 17 year old and fanwanked long range intentions from such.

Wait a minute here.

When he supposedly said that his dream was to play in the NHL, the interview was OK and can be used as a selling point.

BUT

When he says he doesn't want to move to America until he's older and has a family then he's only 17 and it's poorly translated?

 

[Ncit3]

Voted Podkolzin. Russians don't scare me and he has talent comparable to the top two.

 

[RockLobster]

Wait a minute here.

When he supposedly said that his dream was to play in the NHL, the interview was OK and can be used as a selling point.

BUT

When he says he doesn't want to move to America until he's older and has a family then he's only 17 and it's poorly translated?

It's almost like the interview can be interpreted in either manner, acting as a confirmation (of sorts) of the POV for whoever is reading it.

That said, I'd do the opposite--Cozens or Turcotte at 4.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'm warming up to Podkolzin... Mostly because I've grown to value Craig Buttons opinions and his thoughts on Podkolzin have at least intrigued me some. The upcoming U18s are going to be huge for him I think.


That said, Turcotte and Byram are definitely still ahead for me, and probably Cozens also. But instead of Pods being behind 4-5 more guys in that next tier, I'd have him neck and neck with Zegras and Dach for the 6 spot.

 

[Avsboy]

I think Avs will go with Podkolzin. Blackhawks will choose Byram or Turcotte. Pod is the consensus #3 prospect and on McKenzie's list as a #3. Avs seem to track well alongside McKenzie's lists.

This may also entice Panarin. So there's alot going in Panarin's favor: friends with Z, other Russians young and old, he hangs in Colorado in the summer, good team, cap space.

 

[RockLobster]

This may be the Avs' best chance at solving the 2C problem for the long-haul (players like Hayes, if signed, would only be a stopgap solution), so of course I can see them selecting a winger...

 

[Avsboy]

This may be the Avs' best chance at solving the 2C problem for the long-haul (players like Hayes, if signed, would only be a stopgap solution), so of course I can see them selecting a winger...

-Gotta go with BPA
-2c can be solved with a FA or trading Barrie, or both. I bet Barrie is traded for a 2nd liner.

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

Podkolzin all the way. The Russian stigma is getting out of hand. Anyone taken at 4 is going to have their own question marks and set of demands when they eventually sign.

At the end of the day the org is going to be able to look him in the eye at the combine and ask real questions about his future and go by that rather than a hearsay translated interview from a 17 year old and fanwanked long range intentions from such.

Nichushkin, Radulov, and other examples come to mind. They might be back in the NHL now but they screwed over their teams in the process.

 

[RockLobster]

-Gotta go with BPA
-2c can be solved with a FA or trading Barrie, or both. I bet Barrie is traded for a 2nd liner.

And BPA is subjective, so if there's a glut of players all there at 4, I'd prefer they take the one who has a legit chance of solving the 2C problem long-term (rather than overpaying in a trade of UFA contract).

 

[missionAvs]

I saw a recent post in the Dach thread comparing him to Draisaitl as a prospect as far as draft year WHL production was concerned. Anyone more knowledgeable than I think he can follow a similar development curve to the esteemed Dr. Drai? I ask because if so, that could be just what this squad needs.

 

[Iceberg]

I would take as many stabs as i can at trying to find another #1C, to form that 1-2 punch... and at #4 i believe Dach has the highest upside, but i like any of Cozens, Turcotte and Zegras.

 

[cgf]

This is not a word for word translation…because there are some cultural differences that go beyond the specific words; i.e. for a Russian parent “not terrible” is the highest of praise but in a word for word translation would not be translated as such…so this is how I would convey what was said if this had been a cousin of mine who had asked me to phrase it for him in English.

If folks want I can do a word for word translation, but those usually just add to the confusion...which is why ya’ll see me griping about shitty/misleading translations so much


– You could’ve been selected in the CHL import draft, but weren’t because you turned down a move to Canada. Why did you refuse?

– For some folks, there just isn’t that strong impulse to get there. I hear some friends saying things like “Oh, America, Kanada…they’re so f***ing cool. I wish I could’ve-grown-up/could-spend-the-rest-of-my-life* there.” But that ain’t me. I don’t feel that strong urge to live in NA…or rush to play there; as I feel like there’s a good chance that I would lose more than I gain because my English sucks & the different lifestyle/mindset/fate**.

I got a feel for what it’s like during the tournaments I played over there, and I just don’t get that urge. Living on my own in a different country…that’s a different story than living in a different city, like I am now…but living in a different country as a 17-year-old? I’m not ready for that. I want to go there when I’ve matured as a hockey player & a person…with my family, probably. But now? It’s too early for me.

– With your family & when you’ve matured…when will that be?

– How am I supposed to know that? I have a contract with SKA for 3 years; after that we’ll see where things stand. And like I said; it’d probably be better for my psyche to have my family with me when I go. But I’m not in a rush to live there. There’s nothing pulling me there that we don’t have here.


*unclear whether he means that they wish they could spend their entire lives in NA moving forward, or from birth. In either case, he’s alluding to the America-worship that is common with many young Russians. Something perfectly illustrated in Eugene Hutz’ introductory scene in “Everything is Illuminated” (although he’s playing a Ukrainian):

Spoiler

**Wish the interviewer had followed up on what exactly he’s referring to with this line because “какой быт” can mean & be referring to a lot of different things: the differences in daily life? The disparate philosophies on player development? The relationships between team-mates? There’s a lot he could be getting at, although not hearing it & just reading the words, it feels like vague pandering…which is makes me wonder if he works with a PR person who helps him with this kind of vague phrasing that can play to the locals; or if he’s just a natural at “captain-speak”

 

[cgf]

Nichushkin, Radulov, and other examples come to mind. They might be back in the NHL now but they screwed over their teams in the process.

Nuke went back to try and get his development back on track...like Grigorenko & Yakubov.

Radu did actually bail on the NHL's RFA system when Nashville tried to hardball him...but he & Tryamkin are the only examples of this actually happening & Radulov's departure was a decade ago; when the ruble was much stronger & the KHL was able to offer him NHL-star money. That's no longer the case. I haven't dug into it but I've recently read a figure as low as ~2.5M for the KHL's current top earner, which would be less than half of what Radu got to ditch the NHL.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

This translation still doesn't make feel too good about him. My problems with him are:

1. I still have a problem with him "disappearing" sometimes in games but I could live with it as he brings quite a bit in other areas.

2. I have no doubt he will be coming but it is not going to be for another two years. Some of the other guys should be here in one year.

3. As I said he will be coming so no problem there but how long will he stay? He really doesn't seem to be interested in NA that much which is fine. It's not for everybody. However once he has played in the NHL which is his dream, he might just say "OK I made it but I don't like it here so I'm going back". Then we are left with nothing because we can't even trade his rights. That scares me the most.

The U18 will be huge in convincing me on taking him at #4 over safer guys which are not that far behind him to start with.

 

[McMetal]

I saw a recent post in the Dach thread comparing him to Draisaitl as a prospect as far as draft year WHL production was concerned. Anyone more knowledgeable than I think he can follow a similar development curve to the esteemed Dr. Drai? I ask because if so, that could be just what this squad needs.

It's possible, I just don't like his tendency to lower his effort level at times during games. He ends up on the scoresheet a lot, but doesn't always look like a real driver of play, and that's a concern for a player who aspires to be an NHL 1C. I like the RyJo comparison for him, and that just isn't the kind of player I want there, even if he can also remind you of Getzlaf when he's on his horse.

 

[missionAvs]

It's possible, I just don't like his tendency to lower his effort level at times during games. He ends up on the scoresheet a lot, but doesn't always look like a real driver of play, and that's a concern for a player who aspires to be an NHL 1C. I like the RyJo comparison for him, and that just isn't the kind of player I want there, even if he can also remind you of Getzlaf when he's on his horse.

Gotcha, I've just been leaning more on the mindset that a top C with size is just what the doctor ordered for this team. I wonder how this board would perceive a Dach and Caufield 1st round? Get a skilled center with size in Dach that should hold down that 2C position going forwards with the pickup of the ultra talented finisher but shrimp in Caufield.

 

[timothy jimothy]

I saw a recent post in the Dach thread comparing him to Draisaitl as a prospect as far as draft year WHL production was concerned. Anyone more knowledgeable than I think he can follow a similar development curve to the esteemed Dr. Drai? I ask because if so, that could be just what this squad needs.

I think that's a fair comparison style-wise. There are worse comparisons out there for big playmaking centers with quick hands.

Draisaitl was more of a finished product than Dach in his draft year. Draisaitl was stronger and had more heaviness to his game. His play on the boards was absolutely phenomenal. Dach needs some more seasoning in the WHL in that regard.

I would say that Dach's skating is further along than Draisaitl's was although Draisaitl did do a lot of work to get to where he is now. I also think that when Dach is at his best he has more bite to his game than Draisaitl did.

If they were in the same draft I would take Draisaitl as he would've been the safer bet to be a better player, but I think if you are patient with Dach, let him grow into his body and develop his game that he could still be an elite player.

I sort of think that Dach's development will follow closer to someone like Rantanen who you could always see the skill was there but just needed time to get used to his body.