Prospect Info: Team Board Mock Draft

Who should the Avalanche draft at #4

  • Matthew Boldy, LW, USNTP (BC Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Philip Broberg, D, AIK (Allesvenskan)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cole Caufield, RW, USNTP (Wisco Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spenser Knight, G, USNTP (BC Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Peyton Krebs, LW, Kootenay (WHL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alex Newhook, C, Victoria (BCHL, BC Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Victor Soderstrom, D, Brynas IF (SHL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ryan Suzuki, C, Barrie (OHL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cam York, D, USNTP (BC Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trevor Zegras, C, USNTP (BU Commit)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    135
  • Poll closed .

Balthazar

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I see cgf's propaganda has been working out.

Actually I'd say that the propaganda comes from the other side. If you get out of this board you'll see Pod above Turcotte nearly everywhere, in every mock draft, rankings and even in every board on HF (minus perhaps Chicago).
 
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VikingAv

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Jun 18, 2006
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Actually I'd say that the propaganda comes from the other side. If you get out of this board you'll see Pod above Turcotte nearly everywhere, in every mock draft, rankings and even in every board on HF (minus perhaps Chicago).

This isn't about Pod vs Turcotte, it's about Pod vs Cozens, Turcotte and others available for this specific mock and about one person who gets blinders bigger than Jack Edwards' when he gets one of his mancrushes.

I peruse the Draft-board just as much as this one and there's a whole heep of mocks and rankings that have Cozens, Turcotte or even someone else available for this mock ahead of Pod.
 

Balthazar

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This isn't about Pod vs Turcotte, it's about Pod vs Cozens, Turcotte and others available for this specific mock and about one person who gets blinders bigger than Jack Edwards' when he gets one of his mancrushes.

I peruse the Draft-board just as much as this one and there's a whole heep of mocks and rankings that have Cozens, Turcotte or even someone else available for this mock ahead of Pod.

Fair enough. I was more or less replying to the 18 people who wrote Turcotte earlier in the thread. I've no problem with Cozens or even Turcotte...but I feel like Pod has been seriously overlooked on this board when I compare to what scouts and experts are saying.
 
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Barklez

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Mar 27, 2011
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Fair enough. I was more or less replying to the 18 people who wrote Turcotte earlier in the thread. I've no problem with Cozens or even Turcotte...but I feel like Pod has been seriously overlooked on this board when I compare to what scouts and experts are saying.
Pod and Dach to be honest. Basically consensus 3 and 4 and this board wants anyone but the two of them.
 
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Balthazar

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Yeah I am a little surprised at the lack of love for Dach over here.

I wonder if it's because people are trying to find out which player will bust out in that tier and they all think it's going to be Dach?

Remember that there's always at least one Puljujarvi/Zacha/Juolevi/Dal Colle in the ~3-7 range and you don't want to be the team that picks him.
 
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landy92mack29

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May 5, 2014
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@landy92mack29 Dach over Cozens, how come?
I think Dach is the better player and will stick at C while I do like Cozens I don't see as high of upside in him while also a slight chance he moves to RW. Dach has improved upon all his weaknesses this year as he's shooting more(always had a good shot) and his skating isn't a weakness like some say. Dach will be a force once he fills out and he pushed through injuries that most kids wouldn't this year. Cozens is more north south player who isn't dumb by any means but does skate himself into trouble at times where Dach slows the game down and lets the play come to him while also having the ability to play up tempo. Both are great 2way players who have good height and still need to fill out but I see Dach as having a much higher upside and similar floor to Cozens. I'd also take Krebs and Boldy over Cozens/Turcotte but I doubt that'll happen come draft day. Cozens vs Turcotte is an interesting debate as I see similar upsides and floors in both of them as 1B/2A C's and if we were picking 6 or later I'd be happy with them.

Podkolzin is the biggest swing for the fences pick in the top 10 as he does have a good skillset and motor but to me his IQ is a major red flag. In tournaments where the players arent used to each other or the system Podkolzin does well as a quick strike player but he's horrible in league play where their is more structure. He'll have 1, maybe 2 good shifts all game but be invisible the rest of it because he simply can't think as fast as he moves. I do think it's a good thing he wants to stay in Russia for 2 more years as his type of players are the worst kind to rush(Puljujarvi, Virtanen, Nichushkin). The Podkolzin defenders will say you can't judge his production in his league play because he didn't play enough but if you actually watch him he doesn't look like a 1st rounder let alone top 5 guy. Now it's conflicting because in tournaments he looks like he could rival Hughes and Kakko but to me league play tells what a player really is and tournaments can hide their weaknesses ala Jost. I know I'm in the very small minority but I'd take Dorofeyev over Podkolzin.

For what I want the Avs to take at 4 it goes Kakko, Hughes, Byram, Dach. I'd be fine with Krebs also and while I wouldn't be a huge fan of it I'd be ok with Boldy, Turcotte, Cozens and Podkolzin.
 
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Balthazar

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We have 2 huge holes on the roster, #2C and a top pairing LD. It would be a mistake to pick a winger imo.

Byram appears to be the safest pick.

It would suck to watch Chicago doing the exact same thing to us with Byram as Dallas did with Heiskanen 2 years ago.
 
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cgf

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Oct 15, 2010
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[snip]

Podkolzin is the biggest swing for the fences pick in the top 10 as he does have a good skillset and motor but to me his IQ is a major red flag. In tournaments where the players arent used to each other or the system Podkolzin does well as a quick strike player but he's horrible in league play where their is more structure. He'll have 1, maybe 2 good shifts all game but be invisible the rest of it because he simply can't think as fast as he moves. I do think it's a good thing he wants to stay in Russia for 2 more years as his type of players are the worst kind to rush(Puljujarvi, Virtanen, Nichushkin). The Podkolzin defenders will say you can't judge his production in his league play because he didn't play enough but if you actually watch him he doesn't look like a 1st rounder let alone top 5 guy. Now it's conflicting because in tournaments he looks like he could rival Hughes and Kakko but to me league play tells what a player really is and tournaments can hide their weaknesses ala Jost. I know I'm in the very small minority but I'd take Dorofeyev over Podkolzin.

[snip]

I know two people can see radically different things from the same footage, but that really doesn't sound like you were watching the right player; unless you're jumping to these conclusions based entirely off of a couple of bad games, in a season that has seen him play over 60 already...like the two post-WJC matches he played in the MHL simply because SKA had nothing better for him to do that week or the three KHL games in which he may or may not have topped three total shifts. But there's enough of his games on youtube for me not to doubt that you've actually seen enough of him & so to just chalk this up to radically opposed differences of opinion.

I mean, yes his highlight reel plays are very sexy & his assist totals aren't very high this year, but he's an intelligent passer off of the cycle (and not just the break), who has quite a knack for finding the soft spot in the offensive zone from which to launch that nasty one-timer, and reads the play extremely well against the puck; which is why he makes such an impact against the puck on a shift-to-shift basis. Which is why it's odd to me that someone would criticize his hockey IQ, as it's literally one of his biggest strengths :dunno:

It's a shame he hasn't gotten to play with better players or to establish enough chemistry with the guys he has played with for them to anticipate his passes better; because I can recall 6 or 7 more primary assists, off the top of my head, that he would've had in the VHL if he had played with linemates who could finish instead of the Russian-AHL's grindiest of grinders that he was playing with. And I just can't help but wonder how different the perception of him would be -- despite absolutely nothing changing in the way he played -- if those pucks had bounced more favorably and so the paper looked much prettier...

PS - feel free to judge him by his stats; just use his /60 #s instead of raw totals that ignore sample sizes or differences in playing time and he has spent equal time in the MHL, VHL & with the NT, so you need to look at all of his production, not just the set that fits your argument best.
 
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Avs44

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May 16, 2011
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The Russian factor does raise concerns for me with Pod, I'll be honest. I saw this translation of an interview from September over on the Hawks board:
Question: You could have been chosen for the import draft of CHL, but did not, because you refused to go to Canada. Why did you refuse?

Answer: There is a type of people who simply doesn't feel like they want it. I have friends who say: "Oh, America, Canada - this is so cool, I would like to live there all my life." I have the opposite. I basically do not want to go there. All the more because I understand that, most likely, I will lose more there than I acquire. My english language is bad. And I know what kind of mentality there is, what kind of life. Because I was there in tournaments. And I don't feel like I want it. To live alone in another country... That's okay if it's another city, but at 17 years old in another country - I am not ready. I want to go there when I'm matured hockey player and man. With my family, probably. And now - it's too early for me.

Question: With your family and matured - this is how many years?

Answer: How do I know? I have a contract with SKA for three years. And then we'll see what happens. I said so about the family - it would probably be easier to go there. And so - well, don't want it. I don't see anything there that is better than here.

Link: "Говорят, Америка, Канада – это круто. Но сейчас я не хочу туда ехать". Интервью нового русского суперталанта

Does he want to be in the NHL? Yeah, it's his dream, he's acknowledged that before. But he certainly doesn't sound very keen on the North American lifestyle whatsoever. If, in two years, he doesn't feel he and his game have matured enough, does he refuse to come over? Would Denver be appealing to him, or would he feel more comfortable in a bigger American city he'll no doubt have heard a lot more about in Russia? I don't really want to get involved in that, even if he does turn out to be a more talented player than Dach / Cozens / Turcotte.

I'm probably in the Cozens camp if Byram is gone at #4 (my first choice). A 6'3, right handed, mobile, shoot-first centre is awfully difficult to say no to.
 
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Balthazar

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The Russian factor does raise concerns for me with Pod, I'll be honest. I saw this translation of an interview from September over on the Hawks board:


Does he want to be in the NHL? Yeah, it's his dream, he's acknowledged that before. But he certainly doesn't sound very keen on the North American lifestyle whatsoever. If, in two years, he doesn't feel he and his game have matured enough, does he refuse to come over? Would Denver be appealing to him, or would he feel more comfortable in a bigger American city he'll no doubt have heard a lot more about in Russia? I don't really want to get involved in that, even if he does turn out to be a more talented player than Dach / Cozens / Turcotte.

I'm probably in the Cozens camp if Byram is gone at #4 (my first choice). A 6'3, right handed, mobile, shoot-first centre is awfully difficult to say no to.

If that interview is real f*** it then, I don't want him anymore. :thumbd: We don't have time for this shit.
 
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TruePowerSlave

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Jun 27, 2015
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Byram appears to be the safest pick.

It would suck to watch Chicago doing the exact same thing to us with Byram as Dallas did with Heiskanen 2 years ago.
Not sure Chicago is really going with Byram. They have drafted D with their last three 1st rounders + one 2nd round pick, their best prospects are defensemen and there are no high end forward prospects.
 

landy92mack29

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I know two people can see radically different things from the same footage, but that really doesn't sound like you were watching the right player; unless you're jumping to these conclusions based entirely off of a couple of bad games, in a season that has seen him play over 60 already...like the two post-WJC matches he played in the MHL simply because SKA had nothing better for him to do that week or the three KHL games in which he may or may not have topped three total shifts. But there's enough of his games on youtube for me not to doubt that you've actually seen enough of him & so to just chalk this up to radically opposed differences of opinion.

I mean, yes his highlight reel plays are very sexy & his assist totals aren't very high this year, but he's an intelligent passer off of the cycle (and not just the break), who has quite a knack for finding the soft spot in the offensive zone from which to launch that nasty one-timer, and reads the play extremely well against the puck; which is why he makes such an impact against the puck on a shift-to-shift basis. Which is why it's odd to me that someone would criticize his hockey IQ, as it's literally one of his biggest strengths :dunno:

It's a shame he hasn't gotten to play with better players or to establish enough chemistry with the guys he has played with for them to anticipate his passes better; because I can recall 6 or 7 more primary assists, off the top of my head, that he would've had in the VHL if he had played with linemates who could finish instead of the Russian-AHL's grindiest of grinders that he was playing with. And I just can't help but wonder how different the perception of him would be -- despite absolutely nothing changing in the way he played -- if those pucks had bounced more favorably and so the paper looked much prettier...

PS - feel free to judge him by his stats; just use his /60 #s instead of raw totals that ignore sample sizes or differences in playing time and he has spent equal time in the MHL, VHL & with the NT, so you need to look at all of his production, not just the set that fits your argument best.
I didn't watch any of his KHL games but I've seen about 5 of his VHL and 5 MHL games and he'll flash his ability a couple times like I said but overall he had issues reading the play and tried to just do everything on his own. Maybe he was frustrated but for most of those games he had good linemates imo. There were numerous times he simply couldn't see passing lanes that his counterpart in Dorofeyev does. When you compare those 2 in league play Doro looks like the much better player and because he's a late bday doesn't get the exposure. If seen about 5 of his KHL games and 10ish MHL. Both to me are still top 10 talents but it's curious when a person asks why Podkolzin is so much higher they never answer(imo because they only watch tournaments and not league play). Like I said previously Pod has a very high upside but for me there's just to much risk to take him at 4. If the Avs do take him I hope it pays off and we can get a Tarasenko level player out of him and the worst thing would be for him to play in the AHL next year(which I don't think would ever happen)
 

cgf

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I didn't watch any of his KHL games but I've seen about 5 of his VHL and 5 MHL games and he'll flash his ability a couple times like I said but overall he had issues reading the play and tried to just do everything on his own. Maybe he was frustrated but for most of those games he had good linemates imo. There were numerous times he simply couldn't see passing lanes that his counterpart in Dorofeyev does. When you compare those 2 in league play Doro looks like the much better player and because he's a late bday doesn't get the exposure. If seen about 5 of his KHL games and 10ish MHL. Both to me are still top 10 talents but it's curious when a person asks why Podkolzin is so much higher they never answer(imo because they only watch tournaments and not league play). Like I said previously Pod has a very high upside but for me there's just to much risk to take him at 4. If the Avs do take him I hope it pays off and we can get a Tarasenko level player out of him and the worst thing would be for him to play in the AHL next year(which I don't think would ever happen)

So I think that what you're getting at is what I am when I bring up how much he's changing teams and how that's impeded his ability to form chemistry with guys...which is why his linemates also fail to anticipate his passes & flub chances that he crafts just as much as he doesn't see (or rather opt for) passes that were there. It's also a trend you see improving the more he's played at a given level, with his feel for using his linemates improving by the game in the MHL & VHL. Although he did adapt to his linemates hands of stone in the VHL, to take it himself a lot more than he did in those first MHL games he played back in the fall, which could also play into what you're seeing there.

This is why I think it's important to look at the entirety of his resume, to see how he does when he's settled in vs still adapting vs on a checking line vs an offensive anchor. And using that more holistic approach you can see the playmaking that his game is actually built out from...which is why some folks had gripes with him not shooting enough coming into the season & earlier in the year. Part of what excites me so much about him is how multifaceted he is, not just offense / defense / physicality but in the ways he can be a weapon offensively. His play off the rush is what sticks out most, but the way he can float into scoring positions, drive the possession battle down low, and make crafty passes off the cycle are all things I've seen him do & been impressed by.

Dorofeyev is a perfect counter example to Pod; he played in the Spengler Cup before the season and since then has been with SKA the entire time, having to only form chemistry with two sets of team-mates...as he has gotten 22 MHL games & 27 KHL games this year...and that after having played 48 games in the MHL last year. There's a ton more experience & stability there which is why he has shown better chemistry with his linemates.


EDIT:
Dorofeyev is a lot further along, and I do think he's under-rated in this draft -- as he doesn't get nearly enough hype for someone I'd feel comfortable taking in the top 40. But there's a clear difference in talent level / upside / peak-play, just like there's that clear gap in experience & consistency.
 
Last edited:

McMetal

Writer of Wrongs
Sep 29, 2015
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I still love me some Cozens, but I would be perfectly happy with Turcotte in that spot as well. Not much of a gap between the two for me at this point.
 
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